Nov 5-Bullets at Knicks at the Garden

[Illuminaire]

Put me down with the torch-waving mob displeased with McGee's game last night. I watched him freeze at least five times when he was supposed to rotate, but it didn't seem like indecision. Rather, it looked to me like he had a choice between stepping out to prevent an opportunity (by challenging a shot cleanly, or drawing a charge) or to go for a spectacular block - and time after time, he sat under the basket like a coiled snake, going for that block.

If McGee isn't willing to put the team's success ahead of his desire to swat shots into the bleachers, our defense is going to be horrible against any disciplined team. Maybe he'll still be a good option in fantasy basketball, but here in the real world, he's making what seem to be conscious decisions to play in a manner directly damaging to our team's success. Whether that is being communicated to him by the coaching staff or not, I cannot say, but I find this (extremely important) aspect of his game very disappointing.

[hands11]

Hilton needs to go, he has no business being on a NBA roster. He should have followed Morrison out the door.

We knew our front court was going to be a process/weakness this year.

No D McGee who jumps to much and doesn't use his body effectively to hold position. He added muscle and he is staying down more and I even saw him use his chest to gain position at least once, but when you are coming from zero, 3 doesn't look like much when you need an 7-8. McGee has 5 fouls, 2 TO, 1BLK, 1 STL and was 4-5 FG, 0 FTs in 22 min and a -7. 5 fouls and 0 FTs ? That is weak.

Yi - He showed something this summer but he seems to have regressed in his aggressiveness. And he is just off balance to often. Actually McGee is also. If you are off balance, you negate your size. 13 mins and -8 with 1 rebound and 2 TOs ? 2-5 shoot and 4-4 FT. He only offered some offense. No D. This is much more of a let down then Armstrong. Right now I would start either.

Seraphin - Raw and not even seeing the court so how can he even be evaluated yet ?

So to pick on Armstrong who was 17 mins 7 rebounds, 6 of which were defensive, 1 blk, 0 turnovers, 0 fouls and 2-4 FG with a -2 seems to be point the finger in the wrong place. Actually, give what the other two are doing, I would consider starting him.

New York was 12-29 from 3. We were 4-16. Rebounds were 41-37 which is close. Assists 23-14 which is a blow out. Kirk had 2 assists in 33 minutes. Wall has 10 turnovers and hardly an assist after his fast start of like 5 in the first quarter. A lot of them went to Dray.

While post play is a concern for us, Armstrong wasn't the major reason we lost. I would put this more on Wall being out of control, Yi not doing much of anything we needed from him and Flip not lining them up well. This game looked a lot like those old Atlanta games were we were not athletic enough to hang and add a dash of last years Orlando nailing 3s. We looked like we were 4 on 5 with Kirk out there most the time. Flip needed to go with a more athletic perimeter player like Martin or Hudson. 33 minutes of Kirk was a waste in a game where we had little room for error and they were blazing hot shooting from 3 range. New York was up tempo and playing athletic and stronger. We didn't even try to match them.

Wall is young and will have lessons to learn. They took away the drive from him and slacked back giving him the open shot. Gil was in his first game back being on the court with Wall, that was going to take some adjusting mentally and physically but Gil took that slack and nailed the 3 which helped. Yi was soft and useless defensively or in post scoring. What was controllable was who we played besides them. And that for me was Kirk getting 33 weak minutes and getting away from Dray who was on fire to start the game.

Armstrong wasn't the problem. If anything, they should have played him more. I would have also at least tried Martin more and or Booker. Maybe even a few more minutes for Nick with Gil at PG. Maybe Hudson. They played back on us and Kirk and Wall were not threats to score from outside. It was a bad match up for Kirk. He may be effective other nights and maybe valuable as a vet in practice but 33 minutes to him last night was a waste and a difference maker in my book. The coaching seemed every EFJ last night. Not one of Flips finer moments.

They were just more athletic, stronger and better 3 point shooters. Line them up the same way and I would expect the same result. To beat them we need more from McGee and Yi and we need to hope we can get more from Martin, Hudson, Booker and eventually Seraphin. The last 4 are all more athletic and stronger which is what we lacked. I would play Kirk very little against them. Specially if his shot is off.

[hands11]

It looked to me like Dray couldn't move by the end of the game and his stride was looking kind of weird too. I don't know if he jumped once in the fourth quarter. Poor job challenging shots throughout, though.

I don't know, overall I don't think a healthy Gil and Howard are going to make all that much difference other than keeping games closer longer. Against a genuine competitor, this would have been a complete blowout. I mean, it's rare to see an NBA team looking as sloppy as we did late there. 23 turnovers, but we must have been on pace for 40 in the end with even the most routine utility passes ending in fast breaks going the other way. And the defense was at least as egregious.

A multitude of bad habits on display out there and I don't know if "it's only the 4th game" is a proper excuse.

You must have missed Dray getting dinged. He tweaked an ankle 2nd quarter 5:54 mark. Drays ankles have always been a concern of mine. They seem to be his weak link. If there was even a small part of me that ever considered trading him, it would be because of this. I think it is a career long problem for him.

Just watching what I recorded and happen to come across the moment Dray tweaked his ankle.

Then I got to see McGee make three mistakes in a row. He went to set a pick but released before making any contact so he could roll to the hoop. Hey McGee. It's not a pick until you pick someone. Then next play he get a great feed in the post where he should have dunked. All he needed to do was get balanced and go right up. Come on dude, you are 7-1 and can jump. Instead and doubled back and tried some over the shoulder reverse dunk that he missed. More style then substance. Next play on D, Gil get beat baseline and McGee gets a poster picture while he gets a under the hoop rim shaker in his face.

[hands11]

I said this in the chat, but I'm not very hopeful about the Blatche/Mcgee combo. I just think their a bad fit as far as rebounding, toughness, and b-ball IQ go. I don't think they fit together.

This.

One of them has to go. I actually have some hope for Blatche, so I'd trade McGee. Maybe bring in Varejao if possible.

Problem as I see it is that McGee just isn't ready to start. He is an interesting bench players with upside right still. This is what I kept pointing to in the final roster thread. He is in Nick territory. He is ok or amazing on some nights or even play by play or trash on others. Starters need to be consistent. Substance or style.

Given what we have as a roster, I speculated that McGee would loss the starting spot at some point. It was right to give him the start to begin the season after a solid summer of work and since he was a returning player to a team that didn't have or bring in an established starter. Give him a chance to prove he can do it or at least to show he can make noticeable progress. The kid still is a year away probably and still could have a ton of upside if he ever learns position and balance. To early to trade him.

But given what we have right now and where they are in their development, don't be surprised to see Armstrong get a start soon. Flip needs to take Yi out back of the booth and get some thugs to slap him around. I'm more pissed at him then McGee. I think Yi actually has the smarts to get it. He is just more concerned with being in position to score. He plays with the mind set of a SF to much and we need post players.

So if we are going to see any tough post play, you probably want to look to your toughest players. Question marks or not, they are Armstrong, Booker and Seraphin and of them Armstrong has the most experience and plays the most balanced. Other than that, I always thought how quickly we could get Seraphin playing was going to matter a lot. We are just to short on big strong dudes. We need to ween of the softer finesse players as soon as possible.

Players I consider tougher and strong and athletic.
Wall, Gil, AT, Hudson, Martin, Booker, Seraphin

Next behind them
Dray, Armstrong

Behind them
Howard(coming off a knee)

Then
Nick, Yi, McGee, Kirk and Hamady

Against a team like New York, Flip played to much Kirk, McGee and Yi. Since we are not a vet established team, no reason to give marginal questionable players any more weight then players like Hudson, Martin, Booker and Seraphin. I can understand starting Kirk this game but at some point you have to see what isn't working and adjust. As I type I'm just watched Kirk miss badly on a wide open 3 from baseline. Bricked badly. If he can't hit from outside, he is pretty useless and we shold be playing Gil at PG or Hudson with Gil at the two.

I think we need to line them up using the tough/athletic players and let the offense get generated by Gil, Dray and Wall primary. Then let AT, Hudson and Martin fill the gaps with Booker, Armstrong and Seraphin getting the put backs and garbage. McGee and Nick are spark players. Yi and Kirk are insurance.

I would be more tolerant of mistakes and losing with those players then watching us run what we did.

Wall/Hudson/Kirk
Gil/Nick
AT/Martin/Booker
Dray/McGee
Armstrong/Seraphin

Yi or Nick inactive. I would make Yi inactive for a game to teach him a lesson about being to soft and so we an get Seraphin some burn to see what he can do. We are rebuilding. Why not.

Kirk can back up the PG and SG behind Hudson and Nick if either isn't playing well.

I would feel more excited and confident to see what roster and line up verses what I just saw.

[johnbragg]

There's a reason we were able to get Armstrong and Yi. Strategy is to turn over enough rocks and hope to find something. If Armstrong were clearly better than McGee right now, he'd be getting more than minimum salary for a year. If Yi were solid, he'd be in New Jersey right now.

It's going to take time. We need Armstrong and Yi--and eventually Booker and Seraphin--so that we have options when we yank McGee and Blachte for not getting it.

[hands11]

Gilbert needs to start. They need another ball handler on the court with Wall, because through 4 games, a Hinrich/Wall backcourt is not working. 17 turnovers for Wall in 2 games and that's mostly because the ball is in his hands 95% of the time. That's too much pressure on 1 guy.

Agreed. No more Wall and Kirk. Actually, I already ready for limited Kirk. I like him as a vet presence on the team but for now I want him as insurance more that someone on the court.

Wall and Gil could work out in the longer run but for now, why force it when we can spread things out and probably get a better result while also making it easier for both to adjust. Wall needs to adjust to the NBA period and Gil needs to get back in sync and adjust to his new role and Wall. I'm not saying don't play them together at all but I want to see more combinations without Kirk involved.

Wall/Gil
Hudson/Gil
Wall/Martin
Wall/Nick
Gil/Nick - you know they would like to so this more.
Gil/Martin

etc.

[hands11]

I just want to add that I absolutely love Al Thornton... Love his game, his hustle, his agressiveness, especially on the boards... Takes good shots, takes it to the hole when he gets the opportunity... Plays very good D, too bad Flip would rather play a 3 guard lineup with Kirk or Young than a real SF...

Oh well, we lost b/c Wall had his first "bad" game, Dray was kinda outta shap (can't really blame him), and EG's soft ass front court...

Sorry, next to Dray (who should stay), you should bring in a Haywood type of player, NOT a Yi (tooooo frickin soft) nor a Neck (although he tries)... And I know, we got them both for nothing, and I know that Yi was a lottery pick, but still... They might be competent players on another team which has a bruiser PF or C, but not on this team... McGee should come off the bench as a 3rd or 4th big against backup centers... Not starting...

Oh and Gil played amazing, shot the 3 very well and took it to the basket when he got the chance... I just hope both he and Wall just let the game come to them, and not focus on things like: "Wall needs to grow, so Imma lay low a bit" or "I need to get Arenas his shots, so Imma calm myself down"... Just do you, you guys!!! Both of you are very special players who can learn allot from each other...

The outcome didn't really surprise me... They're a pretty young team as well, so back to back don't really tire them, they killed the Bulls in Chicago by raining it from the outside and guess what...??? They're at home, shooting a high percentage, allot of contested shots went in, and our shots just wouldn't... Oh well, time to move on... I expect a win tomorrow though, bounce-back for both Wall and Dray... Hell, maybe even for McGee too... We'll see...

Not to be to corny but one of the things that made me happy about last night was a semi close up I saw of Wall and Gil. And what I saw was two guys that had that " Eye of the Tiger" These guys are both intense and have a fire. They have talent and they know it. I know I have posted a few posts in a row here. Sorry. I'm am just reading through and commenting.

I just felt good seeing we had those two players. I think we have more than that here which is why I still have hope. That is the first quality I look for in a player I want to see starting, leading the team or even playing regular minutes. I can deal with mistakes if they are young and growing.

Players I think have it on our team.
Wall, Gil, Howard, Booker, Hudson, Martin, Seraphin, and I think maybe Hamady.

I wish I saw it a little more from Dray. He doesn't lack it but I haven't seen it as much as I want to.
Kind of the same as AT. They are close to having it. They show it sometimes but not enough of the time. I still like both though.

Players who don't have it.
Yi, Nick and McGee
Nick is a faker and has no heart. Nick is McGee with less fire. Nick could be ok if on the court with Gil because he will die for Gil. Yi. Dude is heartless so far. McGee has the desire but he would get punked in a fight. More flash then substance. He is still a punk. Mommas boy.

Players that neither have it or not
Kirk and Armstrong. Kirk is like a zombie. Armstrong is to unsure. I have seen Armstrong interviewed and he just seems emotionally soft. Great kid though. The kind that would go to war with you if you can get him over the hump. A baby Huey. The kind that is a follower but if he found a crew that believed in him and could help make him a man, he would die for you. Kind of like Big Baby from the Celtics in a way.

The NBA is not the NFL but it is still a mans game. Put the men out there and see what they can do.