ImageImageImage

How about Roy Hibbert?

Moderators: Domejandro, Worm Guts, Calinks

shangrila
RealGM
Posts: 13,511
And1: 6,584
Joined: Dec 21, 2009
Location: Land of Aus
 

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#41 » by shangrila » Sat Nov 6, 2010 9:54 pm

younggunsmn wrote:It's about developing players. Indiana did a great job developing hibbert. We suck at developing players. Hibbert was overweight, out of shape, uncoordinated, and just plain awful most of his first couple seasons. Dude has totally transformed his body, his agility, and his game. Kevin Love is still out of shape and slower than he was when he got here. He'd better hope Kevin Spacey doesn't mistake him for the deadly sin "sloth" and come looking for him.

That seems to be more Love's fault then anything. I mean, he played summer ball this offseason and has still come in looking slow and out of shape.

We can keep talking about trading for players other teams have developed, or we can start seeing some of our own guys improve. We need to concentrate on guys with the physical skillsets to be dominant at their positions (Darko, Wes, Beasley, Webster, Love, Jonny) and give them every opportunity to succeed (IE not yank them for scrubs all the time). If I were Rambis I'd run Love out there until he nearly fell over for 5 or 6 games in a row until he gets the hint he needs to get in better shape.

Beasley and Wes don't get yanked and Flynn and Webster are out, so that leaves Darko and Love. Neither of them have been playing well and neither have the physical skill sets to be dominant at their positions.

I talked about this in another thread, but why does everyone think you can just keep Love out there and he'll run? If he won't hustle in the sub 30 minutes he's getting now why in the hell would he bother doing it if you gave him 40. He'd do the same thing he always does with big minutes; coast defensively and be too tired to do anything offensively. No, I think Rambis is right to yank him. It's the only way to get through to a guy like Love.

I don't think Bynum or Oden are good ideas. I don't think either will ever be completely healthy for an extended period, mostly because their own physiology makes them so prone to injury. If we can get oden for cheap next offseason, I'm all for it, but not at big money and not for more than 2 or 3 years. Bynum is going nowhere as long as the lakers have to worry about the prospect of playing dwight howard in the finals.

Agreed. Although that Portland medical staff looks like it's made up of Dr Frankenstein and Jack the Ripper. Maybe with a fresh start Oden can get healthy.

I'd probably risk it, assuming the team got Jones or Barnes in the draft. After that the team is pretty much set for the future for good or bad.
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 27,361
And1: 12,220
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#42 » by Worm Guts » Sat Nov 6, 2010 9:59 pm

You don't rebound like Love does if your not working. I don't agree that he doesn't hustle.
User avatar
mandurugo
Starter
Posts: 2,120
And1: 231
Joined: Aug 14, 2002

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#43 » by mandurugo » Sat Nov 6, 2010 10:10 pm

Worm Guts wrote:You don't rebound like Love does if your not working. I don't agree that he doesn't hustle.


I think he does hustle for rebounds, at least as much as he can. Doesn't seem to impact the game though. Also, I still wonder if he is playing within the scheme when he goes for the rebounds.
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 27,361
And1: 12,220
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#44 » by Worm Guts » Sat Nov 6, 2010 10:16 pm

I don't know what that means, rebounding is a big part of the game. Love also has some aspects that negatively impact the game, but last year he had the 2nd highest +/- on the team behind Sessions.
User avatar
mandurugo
Starter
Posts: 2,120
And1: 231
Joined: Aug 14, 2002

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#45 » by mandurugo » Sat Nov 6, 2010 11:06 pm

Worm Guts wrote:I don't know what that means, rebounding is a big part of the game. Love also has some aspects that negatively impact the game, but last year he had the 2nd highest +/- on the team behind Sessions.


Rebounding is a big part of the game, but I think Love's deficits in his game are significant enough that they negate any effect his rebounding is having on the outcome of the game. A high +/- is a nice trait to have, but until the wolves actually win some games what's the point? Regular season stats on a losing team are something less than impressive. At any rate, whether or not Love hustles, is not exactly the question. He hustles for things he's interested in, but does he hustle for the things that are best for the team?
Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 50,235
And1: 17,158
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#46 » by Calinks » Sat Nov 6, 2010 11:19 pm

Hey. Brewer was athletic, Flynn was athletic, people thought Foye was athletic, some even compared him to Dwayne Wade. We are just really bad at judging talent, unlucky, and as I have said before, terrible, terrible, at developing talent. All the good rebuilding teams know how to get players to play their system and play to their strengths. Supposedly we were doing that last year but it didn't work out because we didn't know we were using the triangle. So we revamped the team again and so far it's not working out either.

Look at teams like golden state. A rookie Foye or Flynn could have went there and they would probably be viewed as different players. They know how to make players play well in the system they have. If we drafted Curry, I don't know if he would be dropping 25/5/5 in a wolves uniform. We probably would have screwed up Rudy Gay and some others too. Hell, when Al Jefferosn got he was a complete beast. Now we all assume his injured set him back and hurt hs numbers but who knows, maybe the way we were developing him screwed up his game too. I just really don't like where we sit in that area. I feel like we are horrible at playing to players strengths.

Everybody keeps saying we just have bad players and maybe that's true but, how are we the only team that continually brings on terrible players? Out of all the layers that have come through here in the last year how we gotten all the busts? Every other young team in the league as at least one or two upcoming studs. We need to get our crap together as an organization and prove that we can foster talent and yield positive results.
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.
shangrila
RealGM
Posts: 13,511
And1: 6,584
Joined: Dec 21, 2009
Location: Land of Aus
 

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#47 » by shangrila » Sat Nov 6, 2010 11:38 pm

The only one that compared Foye to Wade was Foye. Seriously, we couldn't ship him out fast enough.

Worm Guts wrote:You don't rebound like Love does if your not working. I don't agree that he doesn't hustle.

He doesn't hustle defensively, maybe that's what I should have said. Basically he doesn't do the little things that he needs to if he ever wants to be a plus defender and, at times, sacrifices defence to pad his rebounding stats. Not closing out on shooters like Anderson is a perfect example.
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 27,361
And1: 12,220
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#48 » by Worm Guts » Sun Nov 7, 2010 12:27 am

shangrila wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:You don't rebound like Love does if your not working. I don't agree that he doesn't hustle.

He doesn't hustle defensively, maybe that's what I should have said. Basically he doesn't do the little things that he needs to if he ever wants to be a plus defender and, at times, sacrifices defence to pad his rebounding stats. Not closing out on shooters like Anderson is a perfect example.


I don't know if it's not hustling, at least that's not the impression I get. His combination lack of size and speed put him at a signaficant disadvantage on defense. I didn't see the Orlando game, but against Chris Bosh it looked like Love was just focused on staying in front of him. If he gets too close Bosh is going to blow by him, and Bosh is so tall that Love is can't to much to contest him anyway. Do you want Love attempting to close out on a shot he can't affect anyway, or do you want him to stay in the play and rebound?
Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 50,235
And1: 17,158
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#49 » by Calinks » Sun Nov 7, 2010 1:00 am

shangrila wrote:The only one that compared Foye to Wade was Foye. Seriously, we couldn't ship him out fast enough.

Worm Guts wrote:You don't rebound like Love does if your not working. I don't agree that he doesn't hustle.

He doesn't hustle defensively, maybe that's what I should have said. Basically he doesn't do the little things that he needs to if he ever wants to be a plus defender and, at times, sacrifices defence to pad his rebounding stats. Not closing out on shooters like Anderson is a perfect example.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhjCNr4EtlQ

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spo ... 01414.html

http://www.faniq.com/article/Jay-Bilas- ... -Foye-2921

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft200 ... %3d2493823

http://www.nba.com/features/livinglasvegas_060726.html

Owned :D
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.
shangrila
RealGM
Posts: 13,511
And1: 6,584
Joined: Dec 21, 2009
Location: Land of Aus
 

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#50 » by shangrila » Sun Nov 7, 2010 6:45 am

shangrila
RealGM
Posts: 13,511
And1: 6,584
Joined: Dec 21, 2009
Location: Land of Aus
 

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#51 » by shangrila » Sun Nov 7, 2010 6:51 am

Worm Guts wrote:I don't know if it's not hustling, at least that's not the impression I get. His combination lack of size and speed put him at a signaficant disadvantage on defense. I didn't see the Orlando game, but against Chris Bosh it looked like Love was just focused on staying in front of him. If he gets too close Bosh is going to blow by him, and Bosh is so tall that Love is can't to much to contest him anyway. Do you want Love attempting to close out on a shot he can't affect anyway, or do you want him to stay in the play and rebound?

Well, Bosh is a tough cover for anyone so I don't know if he should be used as a measuring stick, but I would rather Love close out on shooters. I'd rather have pressure put on them, especially against a 1 dimensional guy like Anderson, then have him be wide open just so Love can get another rebound. I mean, a lot of his rebounds are ones that he's almost taking away from other people as it is so I don't think our rebounding suddenly disappears if Love decides to play some defence.

Either way I think he's gone long term. If it weren't for his passing ability he'd be the opposite of everything Rambis wants to run.
User avatar
AQuintus
RealGM
Posts: 10,425
And1: 2,458
Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Location: But let me speak for the weak, I mean the rookies
   

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#52 » by AQuintus » Sun Nov 7, 2010 7:00 am

shangrila wrote:Well, Bosh is a tough cover for anyone so I don't know if he should be used as a measuring stick, but I would rather Love close out on shooters. I'd rather have pressure put on them, especially against a 1 dimensional guy like Anderson, then have him be wide open just so Love can get another rebound.


Yeah, I think that I'd rather have the opposing PF try to beat us off the dribble than shoot uncontested 15-18 footers all day. Especially so with Darko staying back and protecting the rim.
Image
Calinks
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 50,235
And1: 17,158
Joined: Mar 29, 2006
   

Re: How about Roy Hibbert? 

Post#53 » by Calinks » Sun Nov 7, 2010 8:06 am



LOL I didn't attend a top 15 research university for nothing!

But looking at some of those articles/videos, I'm almost ready to draft Foye again! I'm happy I didn't see all of that stuff back when we drafted him because I would have gotten my hopes up way too high. Although, there were moments when Foye looked pretty promising that first year. Then that all went to hell.
When luck shuts the door skill comes in through the window.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves