I think this can be a very good team in a year or two...

[writerman]

I think the only thing we need is a solid back-up center....

C - Hibbert/backup
PF - McRoberts/Hansborough
SF - Granger/George
SG - Rush/Stephenson
PG - Collison/Price

agree?

Also, who is a solid five who might be obtainable we might target in free agency? Any coming up in the draft?

I think we made a mistake keeping Solo and letting Rolle go...I's have gone this year with Hibbert and then playing small until Foster is OK, then put Rolle on the Weight machine with a diet and training to have him put on 20-25 pounds...

[Indy2thaWindy]

C - Hibbert/DeAndre Jordan
PF - Draft Pick/McRoberts/Hansbrough
SF - Granger/Rush
SG - George/Stephenson
PG - Collison/Price/Wiz Khalifa

[writerman]

C - Hibbert/DeAndre Jordan
PF - Draft Pick/[b]McRoberts/Hansbrough[/b]
SF - Granger/Rush
SG - George/Stephenson
PG - Collison/Price/Wiz Khalifa

I don't understand why everyone seems to think we need to upgrade our PF position...I'm not against it if we can improve...but you do realize we are currently getting 16 points and 9.5 rebounds per game from the position, plus reasonably decent defense, (better than Murphy for sure!) don't you? (McRoberts/Hansborough)

[Grang33r]

With this team being so young, and i don't think "very good" is possible for next year because when i think very good, i think top 4 in the east and remote shot at a deep playoff run. Two or maybe even three years down the road, i agree, i think they can be very good. It's taken a bit longer to build up but we are now seeing them develop a bench and fill our positions. However, i think, it may be wise if they decided to ask around the league what they could get in return for Danny Granger. I have to imagine they could get a lot.

His lack of commitment to defense is really bothering me and him being part of another 2 years of mediocre basketball, i think it may disinterest him even more.

[Indy2thaWindy]

We need somebody who can do it constantly. What's their FG%? What does our PF rotation's stats rank with other team's PF rotations? I would think 16 an 9.5 is pretty low. And neither are really good on defense they just play harder than most, which isn't bad, but i wish they were better than they are.

[chube]

Honestly, I want a fairly cheap backup 5 who can contribute but doesn't have to play a ton of minutes for now. Then, get a more consistent pure 4. I really like McBob and he's a guy who can split time between the 4 and 5. Then, have Psycho T come off the bench. As of this point, there have only been a couple games where Tyler has played a LOT of minutes (including 29 a few nights ago.)

So, to me...

5: Hibbert/aforementioned backup/McBob splitting at 4 and 5
4: Free agent or draft pick (Carl Landry or Jeff Green? )/Hansbrough/McBob splitting at 4 and 5
3: Granger/Rush
2: George/Stephenson
1: Collison/Price

[writerman]

We need somebody who can do it constantly. What's their FG%? What does our PF rotation's stats rank with other team's PF rotations? I would think 16 an 9.5 is pretty low. And neither are really good on defense they just play harder than most, which isn't bad, but i wish they were better than they are.

I think your expectations are just totally unrealistic if you think you can get much better than 16 and 10 out of the position without breaking the bank/breaking up our core/getting outlandishly lucky in the draft. There are a lot of teams not doing that well...so far both are shooting well...Tyler .524, .733 from the line, and evidently hasn't yet shot any threes or has missed them all... Josh, .548, .444 from the three, and is 0-3 from the line...and both of them are a defensive improvement over Murphy...between the two of them, they are playing 38 mpg...

I'd like to see both of them get to the line more, but I TOTALLY disagree with you--overall I'll take that kind of production ANY day....how many teams have a full-time/starting PF playing 38 mpg averaging 16 and 10?

[zigster]

i dont know we might not make it out of the first round for the next 6 years

dam artest running into the the stand we should have a ring or two


now he wins with the lakers he shouldnt have been allowed back in the league

[Miller4ever]

The past should stay where it is.

[Indy2thaWindy]

how many teams have a full-time/starting PF playing 38 mpg averaging 16 and 10?

I don't know but we're not one of them.

[writerman]

how many teams have a full-time/starting PF playing 38 mpg averaging 16 and 10?

I don't know but we're not one of them.

And there are a lot of teams that don't and aren't getting as good results as we are...

Yeah...so the way things are, we've got two pair of young fresh legs instead of just one starter logging all those minutes. I think that's a serious advantage if Tyler and Josh continue that level of production. You've got to look at the production we/'re actually getting at the position, not just wishing and hoping we can somehow acquire another Dale Davis who can hold the position down full time but won't actually produce any better production than we're getting from the combination of Josh and Tyler...

So you can do the fantasizing. I like what we've got.

[Miller4ever]

Do you know how supremely difficult it will be to find a PF that can outproduce that without giving up one of Collison/Granger/Hibbert? You're asking for an all-star caliber PF.

Kevin Garnett plays 34 minutes a game and gets 15.7 and 9.8.

Chris Bosh is at 14 and 5 on 32 minutes.

We don't need a 20 and 10 out of our PF rotation if our C is getting 17 and 10. Generally speaking, our overall team rebounding is better than in past years. The only reason why opponents outrebound us is because we miss so many shots. That's no fault of either of our .500+ PF's.

It's not about racking up numbers, it's about efficiency. Our PF's play smart and efficiently, and contribute positively. I'd rather have them than a guy like Zach Randolph.

When you look at PF's, you have to see what the other big is doing. Dirk has Tyson Chandler. They compliment each other. Garnett and Perkins compliment each other. Right now, the physical hustle players in Tyler and McBob that we have compliment the finesse and shotblocking game of Hibbert pretty well. Finding upgrades aren't just about getting more stats, it's about finding the same skillset on more efficiency and production.

[writerman]

Do you know how supremely difficult it will be to find a PF that can outproduce that without giving up one of Collison/Granger/Hibbert? You're asking for an all-star caliber PF.

Kevin Garnett plays 34 minutes a game and gets 15.7 and 9.8.

Chris Bosh is at 14 and 5 on 32 minutes.

We don't need a 20 and 10 out of our PF rotation if our C is getting 17 and 10. Generally speaking, our overall team rebounding is better than in past years. The only reason why opponents outrebound us is because we miss so many shots. That's no fault of either of our .500+ PF's.

It's not about racking up numbers, it's about efficiency. Our PF's play smart and efficiently, and contribute positively. I'd rather have them than a guy like Zach Randolph.

When you look at PF's, you have to see what the other big is doing. Dirk has Tyson Chandler. They compliment each other. Garnett and Perkins compliment each other. Right now, the physical hustle players in Tyler and McBob that we have compliment the finesse and shotblocking game of Hibbert pretty well. Finding upgrades aren't just about getting more stats, it's about finding the same skillset on more efficiency and production.

Exactly... I'm a guy who believes in thoroughly examining what you have at home before you look outside...McBob languished on the bench too long, IMO, because of Obie's closed mind...Tyler is now finally healthy...and voila! We have a very nice tandem, IMO, at the four. I look forward to seeing these guys playing as a tag team like they are doing for a long time...

[colts2004]

We are going to be very good in a year or two. If Roy continues to improve he will be a top 10 center in the league which means we dont really need an all star pf like some people think. I also think Psycho T will eventually overcome McRoberts(I could be wrong) I am intrigued by Paul George and the fact we finally have a real PG in Darren.

Wonder if we will bring the guys from Europe over any time soon?

[colts2004]

i dont know we might not make it out of the first round for the next 6 years

dam artest running into the the stand we should have a ring or two


now he wins with the lakers he shouldnt have been allowed back in the league

Where did this dumb*** troll come from???

[wemisurm]

I agree with the assessment of the Pacers being about a year or two away from being a real good team. I also would add that we are really only one player away from pushing us over the top. Writerman was complimenting our PF position which I think has been surprisingly good considering that neither has played very much NBA basketball. Both McBob and Psycho are good off the bench guys very similar to what Foster once was. Every team needs at least one of those guys to bring energy off the bench. Problem is we have 2 of those guys playing the same position. Indy2theWindy got me thinking about where the Pacers are at the PF position. I love stats and so I complied this list of every team and there top 2 guys at that position. I only took Points, Rebounds, and Assists into the equation. I added the the two together and then added all 3 stats together to get a statistical number. I'm using that number as my ranker for each in the PF position. I was a little surprised at the Pacers position to be honest.



1.) Houston - Scola 22.5 12.3 2.5 Hayes 6.2 5.2 1.7 TOTAL 28.7 17.5 4.2 = 49.5
2.) San Antonio - Duncan 17.6 10.8 2.2 McDyess 7.2 8.2 1.2 TOTAL 24.8 19 3.4 = 47.2
3.) Boston - Garnett 14.6 9.6 1.9 Davis 12.9 4.7 .9 TOTAL 27.5 14.3 2.8 = 44.6
4.) Minnesota - Love 16.9 11.7 1.1 Tolliver 6.0 5.7 1.7 TOTAL 22.9 17.7 2.8 = 43.4
5.) Philadelphia - Brand 18.6 8.1 2.0 Young 9.0 3.7 .7 TOTAL 27.6 11.8 2.7 = 42.1
6.) Memphis - Randolph 12.0 9.0 1.7 Arthur 12.1 6.1 .6 TOTAL 24.1 15.1 2.3 = 41.5
7.) Utah - Millsap 20.3 11.2 3.3 Elson 2.7 3.0 .5 TOTAL 23 14.2 3.8 = 41
8.) New Orleans - West 18.3 6.5 1.5 Smith 8.7 4.7 1.0 TOTAL 27 11.2 2.5 = 40.7
9.) Clippers - Griffin 18.1 11.0 1.9 Jordan 5.0 2.9 .4 TOTAL 23.1 13.9 2.3 = 39.3
10.) Portland - Aldridge 18.2 7.9 1.8 Cunningham 5.6 3.8 .9 TOTAL 23.8 11.7 2.7 = 38.2
11.) Dallas - Nowitzki 25.8 9.0 1.2 Cardinal .8 .5 .3 Not seen them play this year but I have a feeling Marion plays backup more than one else but he also plays SF
TOTAL 26.6 9.5 1.5 = 37.6
12.) Atlanta - Smith 14.6 9.1 4.0 Powell 5.3 3.4 .6 TOTAL 19.9 12.5 4.6 = 37
13.) Miami - Bosh 14.4 5.4 1.6 Haslem 7.1 8.1 .4 TOTAL 21.5 13.5 2 = 37
14.) Washington - Blatche 17.0 7.6 1.8 Jianlian 7.0 2.4 .6 TOTAL 24 10 2.4
= 36.4
15.) New York - Stoudmire 19.5 8.3 2.5 Randolph 1.7 4.0 .0 TOTAL 21.2 12.3 2.5 = 36
16.) Charlotte - Diaw 11.2 4.8 2.8 T.Thomas 11.2 5.0 .5 TOTAL 22.4 9.8 3.3 = 35.5
17.) Lakers - Odom 15.9 11.1 3.4 Caracter 2.7 1.7 .3 A bit skewed because Bynum is injured and Gasol is playing center instead of PF TOTAL 18.6 12.8 3.7 = 35.1
18.) Golden state - Lee 12.0 11.3 2.8 Wright 5.2 3.2 .5 TOTAL 17.2 14.5 3.3 = 35
19.) Phoenix - Turkoglu 10.5 3.5 1.8 Warrick 11.7 5.2 1.0 TOTAL 22.2 8.7 2.8 = 33.7
20.) Detroit - Daye 7.7 3.7 .7 Villanueva 14.0 4.9 .9 TOTAL 21.7 8.6 1.6 = 31.9
21.) Cleveland - Hickson 16.5 5.5 1.2 Jamison 6.3 2.3 1.3 TOTAL 22.8 7.8 2.5 = 33.1
22.) Chicago - Gibson 15.0 6.2 1.4 J.Johnson 3.0 3.8 1.3 NO Boozer so far TOTAL 18.0 10 2.7 = 30.7
23.) Sacramento - Landry 13.8 4.3 1.2 Thompson 5.3 4.8 1.3 TOTAL 19.1 9.1 2.5 = 30.7
24.) Oklahoma City - Green 19.4 7.2 .6 Aldrich 1.2 2.2 .0 TOTAL 20.6 9.4 .6 = 30.6
25.) Orlando - Anderon 9.2 4.2 .0 Bass 9.0 6.2 1.4 TOTAL 18.2 10.4 1.4 = 30
26.) Toronto - Evans 2.8 13.0 1.3 Johnson 6.2 5.2 .3 TOTAL 9 18.2 1.6 = 28.8
27.) New Jersey - Murphy 5.0 4.0 1.3 Favors 9.5 7.3 .2 TOTAL 14.5 11.3 1.5 = 27.3
28.) Indiana - McRoberts 7.6 5.6 .8 Hansbrough 8.2 4.0 1.0 TOTAL 15.8 9.6 1.8 = 27.2
29.) Milwaukee - Gooden 8.1 4.7 .7 Moute 5.7 6.3 1.0 TOTAL 13.8 11 1.7 = 26.5
30.) Denver - Williams 8.0 9.2 .5 Ely 3.2 4.5 1.0 surprise! K-mart is injured TOTAL 11.2 13.7 1.5 = 26.4

In bold
Houston highest scoring
San Antonio highest rebounding
Atlanta highest assist

In italics
Toronto lowest scoring
Cleveland lowest rebounding
Oklahoma City lowest assist


Do you think this is a good assessment of where the PF position is for the Pacers? Obviously we all want to get better there. One thing I noticed about the bottom part of the table was how many teams have a good center already on their team which might make having a great PF not as important. I personally would love to get Josh Smith. I think he would be a good compliment to Roy but I think he will be too difficult to get. But could you imagine the amount of blocked shots those two would rack up in a game that would be fun to watch. I would love to see Larry get someone at either the PF postition or SG to sure things up. Of course assuming PG isn't the answer at SG.

Lets go Pacers!

[Miller4ever]

^^The problem with this is that it's not adjusted for minutes played. Scola and Hayes add up to 54 minutes, so of course they will outproduce the 38 MPG Pacers duo. The Heat, with Chris Bosh and Haslem, total 56 minutes. The total score output per minute for them is .66. For the Pacers, it's .71. So McRoberts and Hansbrough are more efficient and productive than Bosh and Haslem in the same amount of time.

[Miller4ever]

I'm not saying that what we have is better than Bosh and Haslem, but that your table is a faulty measure of production because it's impossible to surpass 48 minutes at any position since all 5 must play 48 minutes. Scola and Hayes double up at the 5. Same thing with Duncan and McDyess. You've already collected all this info, now just add up the minutes and devide the totals by that many minutes and you'll get per-minute production, which is how you're supposed to measure it.

[chube]

^^^ Very true. But I think if we had a more consistent/all-around PF, their playing time would be more consistent. McBob and Psycho T have handled the 4 better than expected, but their minutes are so screwy under JOB's system. Like Tyler had a great game of 29 minutes a few games ago I think during that great win in Philly. But the next couple games, he's played around 10 and didn't look like foul trouble was an issue.

Honestly, I would like to get a fairly cheap, maybe developmental 5 in the draft or one of the guys from overseas. Let them get used to the NBA speed and allow McBob to co-backup Roy, getting the bulk of the bench minutes while bringing the other guy along. Also, target a 4 in the free agency - Jeff Green, Carl Landry, David West, whoever. Then, have said 4 start, Tyler back him up, and have McBob slide into the 4 if need be for foul trouble, injuries, whatever. McBob is versatile enough to play the 4 or 5, so why not take advantage. Then, a couple years down the line, if we feel like McBob is the better answer over Tyler, let Tyler go and keep McBob as the backup 4. In a perfect world, obviously.

[writerman]

^^^ Very true. But I think if we had a more consistent/all-around PF, their playing time would be more consistent. McBob and Psycho T have handled the 4 better than expected, but their minutes are so screwy under JOB's system. Like Tyler had a great game of 29 minutes a few games ago I think during that great win in Philly. But the next couple games, he's played around 10 and didn't look like foul trouble was an issue.

Honestly, I would like to get a fairly cheap, maybe developmental 5 in the draft or one of the guys from overseas. Let them get used to the NBA speed and allow McBob to co-backup Roy, getting the bulk of the bench minutes while bringing the other guy along. Also, target a 4 in the free agency - Jeff Green, Carl Landry, David West, whoever. Then, have said 4 start, Tyler back him up, and have McBob slide into the 4 if need be for foul trouble, injuries, whatever. McBob is versatile enough to play the 4 or 5, so why not take advantage. Then, a couple years down the line, if we feel like McBob is the better answer over Tyler, let Tyler go and keep McBob as the backup 4. In a perfect world, obviously.

I ask again...what in the hell is wrong with 16 and 10, however the minutes are divided? The tandem is successful...why are people here so anxious to **** with success? I have no problem with improving if we can, but there are a hell of a lot of teams not getting production like Josh and Tyler are giving us at the four in 38 mpg.

All we really need is a decent backup five and give the kids--including the McRoberts/Hansborough tandem--another year or two to develop, and I think this team can be a contender essentially AS IS--except for the backup five and 4 competent bench enders/guys drafted to develop, THE PIECES ARE IN PLACE!