Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[Ruzious]

Love probably doesn't play more b/c he's a terrible defender. It's not that he's just not very good, he's wretched. I like him as a player but much like McGee, he's far better suited to come off the bench than be a starter in this league.

So in other words, by making a trade like that, we'd just be switching around deck chairs. I'm not totally opposed to it, and it may improve our rebounding a bit but lets remember that the only way you get defensive rebounds is by challenging opponents shots and forcing them to miss. Bash McGee all you want but swapping McGee for Love ensures we'd have absolutely no one capable of being a deterrent at the rim.

Gimme a break - Michael Beasley is their other PF. Do you really believe they let him play some of the minutes Love would get - because Beasley's a better defender? I'd be willing to bet that If Larry Bird was a young player, you'd say he should be a 6th man.

[Dat2U]

Oh please Ruz, Kevin Love isn't Larry Bird so don't even go there. This isn't about Beasley & and I wasn't commenting on him anyways. With Minny's roster maybe Love deserves to play 40 minutes a night, but guess what? They'll still lose 60+ games. I even said I like Love as a player. But much like our old boy Antawn Jamison, Love's impact on the court doesn't match the gaudy stats. That's not a black or white issue. It's a defense or no-defense issue.

[verbal8]

i keep saying this but this team needs to take a risk and try to trade for ODEN. He is game changer when healthy

Oden's 45 year old body + Wizard's Medical Staff = amputation

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ji, I think Oden is a gamble that might be worth a risk.

Portland didn't pick up his option, however, so that's a huge red flag. They know the most about his injuries.

OTOH, Zydrunas Ilgauskas was injured virtually 3 years in a row when he was a young player like Oden is now. Big Z was some how able to string together 5-6 complete seasons of not hardly missing a game. Oden is so dominating when healthy he's about as good defensively as Dwight Howard.

I think it all comes down to how many games and at what level Oden plays this season. If he has 45-55 games of being an impact player, Portland won't let him get away.

What will be iffy is if Oden only plays like 25 games at the end of the season and teases teams.

[verbal8]

Ji, I think Oden is a gamble that might be worth a risk.

Portland didn't pick up his option, however, so that's a huge red flag. They know the most about his injuries.

I don't really see the assets the Wizards would use to get Oden. If the Blazers deal Oden, I think it would be in a "win-now" move. The only Wizard that could help them would potentially be Blatche. I think that is too high a price, although if the Blazers throw in a prospect and a pick maybe it is a good deal.

[Ruzious]

Oh please Ruz, Kevin Love isn't Larry Bird so don't even go there. This isn't about Beasley & and I wasn't commenting on him anyways. With Minny's roster maybe Love deserves to play 40 minutes a night, but guess what? They'll still lose 60+ games. I even said I like Love as a player. But much like our old boy Antawn Jamison, Love's impact on the court doesn't match the gaudy stats. That's not a black or white issue. It's a defense or no-defense issue.

The technical term for that is "talking out of both sides of your mouth".

And don't blame me when you're the one who said he doesn't get more PT because of his defense.

He's no more Jamison than he is Bird. We're talking about the best rebounder in the game - not to mention one of the best passing big men in the game. And fwiw, I never implied this was a black or white issue - so let's drop that. I think you were inferring McGee is a defensive force, but a shot-blocker couldn't be much worse than he is defensively - and even on the rare occasions that McGee is in the right spot at the right time, average players still consistently get their shots off past him. He's a lousy defender in his own right. Maybe that'll change, and maybe it won't.

[TGW]

McGee for Love is a no brainer, even if it muddles up our roster. We can't get any worse defensively, and at least with Love, you're improving your rebounding ten-fold, and offensively you have a guy who can start fast breaks with his passing and can make shots in a pick-n-roll set.

I'd give up Blatche for Love too.

[fishercob]

Nate/Sev, etc., are there any teams out there that you see who may be looking to shed some money this year or next -- potential BOYD targets with our expirings, while still keeping our '12 flexibility alive?

[Illuminaire]

Love snagging every big board and instantly sending a laser pass to John Wall 15 times a game would be worth McGee. Hell, it would be worth McGee and a protected #1. Please Lyrical, call your cousin Ernie and make this happen.

[fishercob]

Let's keep an eye on Antonio McDyess. He's playing 24 MPG right now, but as Splitter gets more up to speed, SA may look to move him (and roll with Timmy, Splitter, Blair and Bonner as their bigs). With Parker's new extension, I wouldn't be surprised if San Antone looked to move McDyess's $5.2M deal next year.

If we could get a decent asset to take him, I'd be all over moving an expiring for him. He'd be a nice fit with our kids up front. A real pro, etc.

[nate33]

Love snagging every big board and instantly sending a laser pass to John Wall 15 times a game would be worth McGee. Hell, it would be worth McGee and a protected #1. Please Lyrical, call your cousin Ernie and make this happen.

Let's not go overboard. The problem with Love on this team is that there wouldn't be a whole lot of defensive rebounds to snag. You gotta force misses before you get a board. I'd consider McGee for Love, but I wouldn't throw in a 1st.

[nate33]

Let's keep an eye on Antonio McDyess. He's playing 24 MPG right now, but as Splitter gets more up to speed, SA may look to move him (and roll with Timmy, Splitter, Blair and Bonner as their bigs). With Parker's new extension, I wouldn't be surprised if San Antone looked to move McDyess's $5.2M deal next year.

If we could get a decent asset to take him, I'd be all over moving an expiring for him. He'd be a nice fit with our kids up front. A real pro, etc.

He's a perfect target, but it's tough to see San Antonio giving away talent to save money at this juncture. They're "all in" for a championship right now. McDyess is the kind of guy you put on the shelf during the regular season and then dust him off for the playoffs.

Ben Wallace is under contract until 2012, but he's owed just $2M a year. At that price, he's a bargain, even at his age. There's also some bad blood between Flip and Big Ben.

The only other name out there that I can think of is James Posey. But with the play of Thornton, he doesn't seen necessary. It might make sense to trade a TPE for Posey this summer though. Rather than resign Thornton, Young or Howard (which would interfere with cap space in 2012), we could acquire a starting SF in the draft and do a BOYD trade for Posey as depth and as a veteran mentor.

[fishercob]

Yeah, the only hope on McDyess is that Splitter/Blair blow up and -- I hate to say it -- that McDyess gets hurt and doesn't stand to be useful for a playoff run.

[Severn Hoos]

Nate/Sev, etc., are there any teams out there that you see who may be looking to shed some money this year or next -- potential BOYD targets with our expirings, while still keeping our '12 flexibility alive?

Well, assuming you mean "this year" as in '10-11, we really can't help anyone out because we're at the cap. So a team looking to save this year's tax dollars (like we did last year) wouldn't be able to dump a player to the Wiz without taking back similar salary. Someone might do that (like the Pacers - they have a ton of expirings, if they could move some of theirs for some of ours and shave a mil or two in salary, that could mean up to $4M with tax factored in), but I don't see how it could work.

About the only way to get in on that game would be to move one or more of our expirings (primarily Young & Yi) for someone else's '12 expiring(s). Again, not a lot of options, but here are a few:

Charlotte: They might love to be free of Diaw's salary next year, but probably wouldn't add much (if any) sweetener to a deal. Age-old question: would MJ deal with the Wiz? How about now that Ted's in charge?
New York: Wants to create as much space as possible (Melo, Paul down the road). Only significant '12 expiring is Felton, and he looks to valuable for them to move mid-season.
Orlando: Don't know if they really need to shed salary, but the recent Pietrus dust-up could make him available - a '12 expiring who would actually fill a needed role for us. I'd do that straight up with no sweetener, but why would they want Yi or Young? Don't think they'd do it, or would be looking for a better return, as they're in win-now mode.
Indiana: Maybe the best possibility, with Posey on their books. If properly motivated, would be a veteran swingman to set a tone and show the kids how to play defense. (i.e., all the tricks you can get away with.) Would give them crazy cap space this summer to go with Hibbert, Granger, Collison, and a motley crew of mediocre role players.
Philadelphia: Should be right around the cap this summer (pending the new CBA), with Nocioni on the books for another year. Like Posey, would be the kind of player you hate on the other team but love to have on your own. They might go for a Y&Y-for-Noc swap, but again, don't think you'd get anything else out of the deal.

Not a lot of teams that fit the model of needing to shed salary AND have '12 expirings to swap for '11 expirings. I'd probably do just about any of the deals above because I think this teams needs toughness and maturity - Nick and Yi don't have a lot of either, so it would have to be an upgrade to get a guy like Posey, Nocioni, Pietrus, etc.

[Illuminaire]

Let's not go overboard. The problem with Love on this team is that there wouldn't be a whole lot of defensive rebounds to snag. You gotta force misses before you get a board. I'd consider McGee for Love, but I wouldn't throw in a 1st.

Getting rid of McGee is worth a couple of misses a game right there.

This kind of move would be entirely dependent on how we project McGee as a player two years from now, of course. I don't think he's going to "get it"... few players look as clueless as he does, as long as he has, and turn that corner, so I say sell high. Love, meanwhile, looks to me like a guy you can count on to perform at a high level for a long time. His rebounding is based on instincts, positioning, and strength - he could keep that up into his 30s. His passing isn't going to degrade, and his shooting may improve.

Given Love's B-ball IQ, his defense *might* trend upwards over time too. Maybe. =p

Basically, if we acquired Love right now I think we would improve enough that our pick wouldn't be all that valuable, hence being willing to throw in a top-13 protected 1st. I'd try to get him for just McGee first, of course. ^_^

[LyricalRico]

In looking at potential Kevin Love trades, I noticed that Minny is nearly $12M under the cap. As much as some may hate to hear this, I'm starting to look at potential 3-way trades where we get Love and send Gil to a third team. The biggest obstacle is figuring out just what Minny would want.

[Hoopalotta]

Nate/Sev, etc., are there any teams out there that you see who may be looking to shed some money this year or next -- potential BOYD targets with our expirings, while still keeping our '12 flexibility alive?

If the projections going into next summer are that the lockout isn't going to cost the league games, I could see....

Atlanta would probably want to dump Mike Bibby if they don't make a Marvelous trade. Mid-late first rounder as compensation? There's Jordan Crawford as well, though they might need to use him.

Philly has Nocioni and a high payroll, but I think Iggy likely gets dealt and they're square there.

Utah might be interested in moving Okur if his health isn't coming around. They could resign AK and use the MLE so long as it's still around. I believe they already dealt their pick, but they do make dump deals sometimes.

Orlando maybe Mike Peaches with a very late first if he stays in the doghouse. It does give us a stop gap, even if the compensation isn't so rich.

New York I think Turiaf exercises his option out, but I could see them giving him to us without sweetener if they absolutely need the cap space. I'm a fan of Ronny.

I doubt Indiana has enough viable free agent targets to where they pay us anything beyond a 2nd rounder to take Posey. Maybe if we acquired another late first we could trade up with them if they made the playoffs.

Golden State has Charlie Bell, but I doubt anything happens as it's not make or break for them.

Jason Terry has $5 million guaranteed. I could see Dallas considering a sacrifice if they know they're out of it and are worried about payroll, but I bet they make a move between now and then, so hard to say.

Cleveland has Jamison, but unless they have a mind to sign a free agent, it's unlikely (and speculation is that they'll have a hard time getting a free agent). Their owner is stubborn, but they do have some future picks from Miami. But Hiney for Jamison could be possible.

Charlotte is probably the best bet. You'd think Diaw would take the guaranteed $9 million, but it's fluid. However, they probably need to move 2013 salary if they're going to spend right after the lockout, so that compounds the situation. I'd love to get their draft pick and there's also Najera and Livingston on the books for 2012 as well (Livingston has another year, but it's not guaranteed).

I think that's about it.

[verbal8]

Nate/Sev, etc., are there any teams out there that you see who may be looking to shed some money this year or next -- potential BOYD targets with our expirings, while still keeping our '12 flexibility alive?

If the projections going into next summer are that the lockout isn't going to cost the league games, I could see....

Atlanta would probably want to dump Mike Bibby if they don't make a Marvelous trade. Mid-late first rounder as compensation? There's Jordan Crawford as well, though they might need to use him.

If the Hawks dump Bibby, who plays PG? Even if Teague looks like a starter, the other guards on their roster are more shooting guards.

Philly has Nocioni and a high payroll, but I think Iggy likely gets dealt and they're square there.

Utah might be interested in moving Okur if his health isn't coming around. They could resign AK and use the MLE so long as it's still around. I believe they already dealt their pick, but they do make dump deals sometimes.

Orlando maybe Mike Peaches with a very late first if he stays in the doghouse. It does give us a stop gap, even if the compensation isn't so rich.

New York I think Turiaf exercises his option out, but I could see them giving him to us without sweetener if they absolutely need the cap space. I'm a fan of Ronny.

I doubt Indiana has enough viable free agent targets to where they pay us anything beyond a 2nd rounder to take Posey. Maybe if we acquired another late first we could trade up with them if they made the playoffs.

Golden State has Charlie Bell, but I doubt anything happens as it's not make or break for them.

Jason Terry has $5 million guaranteed. I could see Dallas considering a sacrifice if they know they're out of it and are worried about payroll, but I bet they make a move between now and then, so hard to say.

Cleveland has Jamison, but unless they have a mind to sign a free agent, it's unlikely (and speculation is that they'll have a hard time getting a free agent). Their owner is stubborn, but they do have some future picks from Miami. But Hiney for Jamison could be possible.

Charlotte is probably the best bet. You'd think Diaw would take the guaranteed $9 million, but it's fluid. However, they probably need to move 2013 salary if they're going to spend right after the lockout, so that compounds the situation. I'd love to get their draft pick and there's also Najera and Livingston on the books for 2012 as well (Livingston has another year, but it's not guaranteed).

I think that's about it.

I think Cleveland and Charlotte may actually be "buyers" in the trade market. If Charlotte makes a dump trade, I think they use Gerald Henderson as the incentive rather than an actual draft pick. If Peitrus or Turiaf are available for free, they might not be bad options. I think Orlando may be the best option for a pick. They may figure that they can just buy a pick in the late first round rather than using their pick near the end of the 1st round.

[Hoopalotta]

Atlanta is really going to be desperate to fill out their roster as they'll be at almost $65 million on an eight man roster, which I don't think is workable. I could easily see them dump Bibby and go stop gap for a year, which is really all Bibby is going to be by that point anyway (he's, what, maybe the 35th best point guard in the league now?). It's also worth noting that they never, ever pay the tax and it's a heckuva lot better than trading Josh Smith from a position of weakness. Downgrading slightly from Mike Bibby is a small price to pay.

As noted, Cleveland would only really be doing that if they planned to be buyers in 2011 free agency - worth mentioning for the sake of completeness, even if unlikely.

Charlotte is a mess and if they want to clean it up in any sort of substantive way, they'll need to move a lot more than just Gerald Henderson. He might be able to move Najera, but that's dusting the patio of a burning house. I can see them being a buyer, yes, but my view is they need to move salary in order to do it. Anyway, the whole situation is contingent on what Diaw does with that option as, if he's going to axe that last year, then they don't have any substantial 2012 expirings to dump. Also, they already traded their 2012 pick, so that complicates any moves with them. But they have no good options now as they've made too many mistakes.

I like the Orlando option as well. Maybe they'd want to do something with Al Thoronton and Mikey Peaches in season. The 27-28th pick alone wouldn't be enough to tempt me there, though.

[LyricalRico]

Atlanta is really going to be desperate to fill out their roster as they'll be at almost $65 million on an eight man roster, which I don't think is workable. I could easily see them dump Bibby and go stop gap for a year, which is really all Bibby is going to be by that point anyway (he's, what, maybe the 35th best point guard in the league now?). It's also worth noting that they never, ever pay the tax and it's a heckuva lot better than trading Josh Smith from a position of weakness. Downgrading slightly from Mike Bibby is a small price to pay.

They've really gotta move Marvin Williams. Maybe they package Marvin and Bibby for multiple players on smaller deals. They might not save a lot of cash but they could fill roster spots without adding salary.