Boston-Miami/TNT/8PM

[dflash3]

^to add to your thought Bronbron....

Anthony had ZERO shots. ZERO SHOTS. How do you have a starter out there getting you ZERO shots against an opponent like the Celtics. That's on the play designing. The players aren't even looking at Joel cuz he can't even get open due to our plays.

C'mon man.

Joel does NOTHING on offense though, so what's the point of having him in the starting lineup anyway? Yeah, he blocks shots, but other than that nothing.

He either needs to be benched or sit down altogether. The experiment is over.

Yea, he has no value on offense, and the only reason he was considered for the starting job was due to the belief that he would fit into the Heat's running game. Yet, the Heat aren't even getting opportunities to run. The Heat might as well give Pittman some minutes at this point, since even if Pittman can't rebound his impact couldn't be significantly worse than Joel's. Even just 2-3 minutes would be great even if Pittman is a second round rookie who still needs to lose weight and the Heat are in win now mode. After all, the Celtics weren't afraid to give Glen Davis 13 minutes a game during their championship season, and he ended up developing into a fine rotation player. With the way the Heat are so afraid to give rookies opportunities Glen Davis wouldn't be as decent as he is now and might not even be in the league anymore.

It is also strange that some players get a lot of leeway in the mistakes they make and are given minutes despite their shortcoming while others are sent straight back to the bench or put out of the rotation. The Heat have yet to find an identity and a line up that can pose a threat to opposing teams during the entire course of the game so why not change the line up occasionally and give other players chances to see if they can be more productive? The Heat are 1-4 against teams with winning records and all I hear is excuses about how it is a long season and the postseason is what really matters. If that is really the case why not shake things up and give other players a chance to step up?

[nonemus]

Question for you guys:

To what extent is Wade's abysmal performance tonight the fault of the coach? I mean, he has had two of the worst games in his career (top 10 for sure) in the first 9 games in this season. Wade is a more consistent offensive option than the likes of LeBron/Kobe/Melo. The statistics prove this. He was very very lethargic out there in the court, didn't see the tenacity that I was used to seeing. To what extent is this the fault of Spo?

[TheAnkh]

Pound the ball less, and let Bron go idle watching over the corner while Wade and Bosh attempt those hideous PnRs, Same stuff, repeat, same crap results unless it's against fodders.

It was on LeBron's hand because opposing teams tend to clamp down on him more, giving out an easy pass. Wade.... yeah he could barely keep up tonight.

It doesnt matter who hold the ball, as long as the offense keeps moving not just watching somewhere at the 3 point arc for either Wade or LeBron, this team has hope

Too bad Spo is a lost cause to not recognize these flaws in offense,

Not even recognizing as SIMPLE AND OBVIOUS Joel Mismatch forcing him to start, being killed by Shaq over and over....Was it like 5-14 before calling a timeout LOL and bench his sorry ass

I hear you, and that is probably true that it would be the same no matter who pounded the ball in this offense. But I'm talking about LeBron pounding it because LeBron is the one pounding it. Not Wade, not Bosh, Lebron. Honestly, even when either of those two do have the ball, they go into a move immediately, either to score or they pass to move the defense. Defenses are clamping down on him more because he's the one always with the ball in his hands. Don't any of you wonder what our offense would look like if he wasn't?

[dflash3]

Question for you guys:

To what extent is Wade's abysmal performance tonight the fault of the coach? I mean, he has had two of the worst games in his career (top 10 for sure) in the first 9 games in this season. Wade is a more consistent offensive option than the likes of LeBron/Kobe/Melo. The statistics prove this. He was very very lethargic out there in the court, didn't see the tenacity that I was used to seeing. To what extent is this the fault of Spo?

It is Wade's fault, but it is also a sign that while the players may like Spo that it doesn't mean they have respect for him. It was a similar situation with SVG during the 06 season where players were tuning him out which resulted in Riley stepping in to lead the talented yet dysfunctional group of veterans and former all stars. Spo doesn't seem to have the leadership and seems more like a friend who is letting them do whatever they want. Spo should call out Wade for his laziness, but would Wade even listen to him and take him seriously?

[BronBron06]

I hear you, and that is probably true that it would be the same no matter who pounded the ball in this offense. But I'm talking about LeBron pounding it because LeBron is the one pounding it. Not Wade, not Bosh, Lebron. Honestly, even when either of those two do have the ball, they go into a move immediately, either to score or they pass to move the defense. Defenses are clamping down on him more because he's the one always with the ball in his hands. Don't any of you wonder what our offense would look like if he wasn't?

Teammates would just go to Wade... run the same, team will clamp down on him....

U Dont see Haslem having the ball, it gets stripped over or he'll just move a little and shoots from midrange

Dont see Bosh having the ball, he'll just pass it back, he hesitates too much, dont know what to do, where to place himself

U dont see Jones driving around...he stays in the corner... dont know why, role is much of a shooter unlike Mike Miller.


Game is much better right now, if LeBron is playing without Wade, or Wade playing without LeBron
Cause of some **** offense.

You really see this mostly on 2nd and 3rd quarters

[TheAnkh]

Question for you guys:

To what extent is Wade's abysmal performance tonight the fault of the coach? I mean, he has had two of the worst games in his career (top 10 for sure) in the first 9 games in this season. Wade is a more consistent offensive option than the likes of LeBron/Kobe/Melo. The statistics prove this. He was very very lethargic out there in the court, didn't see the tenacity that I was used to seeing. To what extent is this the fault of Spo?

Well he also torched this same defense playing by himself last year, in the playoffs no less, and under this same coach. So as much as I would like to, no I wouldn't put Wade's performance on Spo. He just sucked tonight. I don't know if thats because we deliberately went to LeBron early to score (as well as to facilitate, which boggles my mind) and never got him going, but even then he still got his opportunities and stunk it up.

[hammel123]

as an outsider, fascinating to watch.. I think everyone underestimated how challenging it would be to get Wade to accept a second option type of role, which is needed to get this team really moving. His mentality is he is still number one, where clearly LeBron is the best player in the league. Ironically, it's Lebron who feels he has to adjust

Will Wade be able to accept a secondary role within the offense and more importantly when the plays do not go through him, will he commit to do the little things, play defense and rebound? With Jordan and Pippen there never was a question of who's number one. In this case Wade's 29 and been unquestionable leader of this team for the past few years. He'll have to reprogram his mind to the days when he came into the league and was playing off Shaq. But he was a rookie then, will his ego be able to handle it now?

[nonemus]

as an outsider, fascinating to watch.. I think everyone underestimated how challenging it would be to get Wade to accept a second option type of role, which is needed to get this team really moving. His mentality is he is still number one, where clearly LeBron is the best player in the league. Ironically, it's Lebron who feels he has to adjust

Will Wade be able to accept a secondary role within the offense and more importantly when the plays do not go through him, will he commit to do the little things, play defense and rebound? With Jordan and Pippen there never was a question of who's number one. In this case Wade's 29 and been unquestionable leader of this team for the past few years. He'll have to reprogram his mind to the days when he came into the league and was playing off Shaq. But he was a rookie then, will his ego be able to handle it now?

The difference between LeBron's and Wade's FGA is 2. Yet Wade is scoring 7 more points. Lebron is handling the ball much more than Wade. I think Wade as the primary scoring option and Lebron as the facilitator would work, but the right infrastructure isn't there to get things working yet.

[BronBron06]

as an outsider, fascinating to watch.. I think everyone underestimated how challenging it would be to get Wade to accept a second option type of role, which is needed to get this team really moving. His mentality is he is still number one, where clearly LeBron is the best player in the league. Ironically, it's Lebron who feels he has to adjust

Will Wade be able to accept a secondary role within the offense and more importantly when the plays do not go through him, will he commit to do the little things, play defense and rebound? With Jordan and Pippen there never was a question of who's number one. In this case Wade's 29 and been unquestionable leader of this team for the past few years. He'll have to reprogram his mind to the days when he came into the league and was playing off Shaq. But he was a rookie then, will his ego be able to handle it now?

Wasnt Shaq-Wade in 2004-05 not rookie year since I can still remember that Odom buzzer beater in the playoffs i think.

Though I think this would be Solved under a new COACH not with ERIC SPO, LeBron or Wade who is the top dog. Spo is sucking much on Wade because Wade gave him opportunity and kept him in the past few seasons

But anyways, Dampier needs to come to Heat fast, wonder what's keeping him, then replace Spo

With Jeff Van Gundy or Pat Riley or Don Nelson


LEBRON AS FACILITATOR... YEAH and SPO DOESNT MAKE PLAYS FOR HIM AND ATTACK THE RIM. Only works best if LeBron Attacks a lot and people are actually moving not hiding in the corner

[Desiderium]

the best 3 starters playing alongside the worst 2 starters
78-4 now?

[BronBron06]

the best 3 starters playing alongside the worst 2 starters
78-4 now?

Yeah Still has chance to Beat Bulls Record if Spo was replaced right now or somewhere in the 70's

[Desiderium]

the best 3 starters playing alongside the worst 2 starters
78-4 now?

Yeah Still has chance to Beat Bulls Record if Spo was replaced right now.

your offense/defense is non-existant at best. can't "wing" it every night, especially come playoff time. spo should be fired by all star break.

[TheAnkh]

as an outsider, fascinating to watch.. I think everyone underestimated how challenging it would be to get Wade to accept a second option type of role, which is needed to get this team really moving. His mentality is he is still number one, where clearly LeBron is the best player in the league. Ironically, it's Lebron who feels he has to adjust

Will Wade be able to accept a secondary role within the offense and more importantly when the plays do not go through him, will he commit to do the little things, play defense and rebound? With Jordan and Pippen there never was a question of who's number one. In this case Wade's 29 and been unquestionable leader of this team for the past few years. He'll have to reprogram his mind to the days when he came into the league and was playing off Shaq. But he was a rookie then, will his ego be able to handle it now?

I disagree wholeheartedly. In fact I don't think there is anything to back up your opinion that this team can go nowhere unless Wade accepts a second option role. In the games where LeBron has not shot the ball well and Wade has, we have never been embarrassed. In the games where LeBron has shot the ball well (or better anyway) and Wade hasn't, we have been blown out. I have not quite put my finger on why exactly that is, but it is fact. I am leaning towards the idea that because LeBron apparently must be on ball to do any damage, he cannot also be the first option scorer as well as the facilitator. Because then its just Cleveland all over again and we saw how that worked out.

[kapono24UCLA]

A team preaching defense gave up 61 first half points two nights after they were embarrassed in the 2nd half. That single point alone was the most dissappointing. Losing patience at this point in time.

[contract]

With Jordan and Pippen there never was a question of who's number one.

Because Jordan was Jordan ... but we don't have one of those. No one does.

Many predicted the problem of having Wade and Lebron play together. Their games and skill sets are too similar, and both need to dominate the ball to be effective. The problem is that there is only 1 ball. But that isn't our main problem. Our main problem is that gaping hole we have at C. Fix that and we can win it all.

[Kingsforlife]

by Kingsforlife on Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:46 am

Ray Allen gonna make Wade look like Speedy Claxton.. U knooow!!!

I posted this on the Celtics game thread before the game....... Im sorry

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1065782&start=0

[hammel123]

I disagree wholeheartedly. In fact I don't think there is anything to back up your opinion that this team can go nowhere unless Wade accepts a second option role. In the games where LeBron has not shot the ball well and Wade has, we have never been embarrassed. In the games where LeBron has shot the ball well (or better anyway) and Wade hasn't, we have been blown out. I have not quite put my finger on why exactly that is, but it is fact. I am leaning towards the idea that because LeBron apparently must be on ball to do any damage, he cannot also be the first option scorer as well as the facilitator. Because then its just Cleveland all over again and we saw how that worked out.

hmm, to me, in terms of offensive talent Lebron gets the ball over Wade. Speaking of Cleveland, if they had just a slightly higher level players at a few positions, they would've had championships. I just don't buy the idea of Lebron as a point guard first. Just like in Cleveland he should only pass the ball when the defense collapses. It was painful to watch during the last night's game, Lebron goes around his man, only to stop and try to make a pass, in whatever play was drawn up.

[thecrowning]

as an outsider, fascinating to watch.. I think everyone underestimated how challenging it would be to get Wade to accept a second option type of role, which is needed to get this team really moving. His mentality is he is still number one, where clearly LeBron is the best player in the league. Ironically, it's Lebron who feels he has to adjust

Will Wade be able to accept a secondary role within the offense and more importantly when the plays do not go through him, will he commit to do the little things, play defense and rebound? With Jordan and Pippen there never was a question of who's number one. In this case Wade's 29 and been unquestionable leader of this team for the past few years. He'll have to reprogram his mind to the days when he came into the league and was playing off Shaq. But he was a rookie then, will his ego be able to handle it now?

I disagree wholeheartedly. In fact I don't think there is anything to back up your opinion that this team can go nowhere unless Wade accepts a second option role. In the games where LeBron has not shot the ball well and Wade has, we have never been embarrassed. In the games where LeBron has shot the ball well (or better anyway) and Wade hasn't, we have been blown out. I have not quite put my finger on why exactly that is, but it is fact. I am leaning towards the idea that because LeBron apparently must be on ball to do any damage, he cannot also be the first option scorer as well as the facilitator. Because then its just Cleveland all over again and we saw how that worked out.

Bias much? This is a team game anyways, you can't single out 2 players and analyse. Even if you do, how about when Lebron shot badly, he still gives you 7 - 11rebs, 8 - 14asts. Where as like today, when Wade shot the ball badly, he can give you a total blunder? See how that works huh.

Winning cures everything, the problem with this team now certainly isn't who's 1 or 2 and who's better than who, its the COACH. It is the stupid lineups he comes up with that hinders all 3 stars to do what they do best. There are no comparison between teammates, until they are all put on fair ground to compete.

[TheAnkh]

as an outsider, fascinating to watch.. I think everyone underestimated how challenging it would be to get Wade to accept a second option type of role, which is needed to get this team really moving. His mentality is he is still number one, where clearly LeBron is the best player in the league. Ironically, it's Lebron who feels he has to adjust

Will Wade be able to accept a secondary role within the offense and more importantly when the plays do not go through him, will he commit to do the little things, play defense and rebound? With Jordan and Pippen there never was a question of who's number one. In this case Wade's 29 and been unquestionable leader of this team for the past few years. He'll have to reprogram his mind to the days when he came into the league and was playing off Shaq. But he was a rookie then, will his ego be able to handle it now?

I disagree wholeheartedly. In fact I don't think there is anything to back up your opinion that this team can go nowhere unless Wade accepts a second option role. In the games where LeBron has not shot the ball well and Wade has, we have never been embarrassed. In the games where LeBron has shot the ball well (or better anyway) and Wade hasn't, we have been blown out. I have not quite put my finger on why exactly that is, but it is fact. I am leaning towards the idea that because LeBron apparently must be on ball to do any damage, he cannot also be the first option scorer as well as the facilitator. Because then its just Cleveland all over again and we saw how that worked out.

Bias much? This is a team game anyways, you can't single out 2 players and analyse. Even if you do, how about when Lebron shot badly, he still gives you 7 - 11rebs, 8 - 14asts. Where as like today, when Wade shot the ball badly, he can give you a total blunder? See how that works huh.

Winning cures everything, the problem with this team now certainly isn't who's 1 or 2 and who's better than who, its the COACH. It is the stupid lineups he comes up with that hinders all 3 stars to do what they do best. There are no comparison between teammates, until they are all put on fair ground to compete.

No, not biased. Just being honest. I have said Wade had a horrific game and denied anyone trying to put that on anyone else. I see what you are saying but up until tonight where Wade was just terrible all around he was also very big on the boards (averaging the 2nd highest on the team). And as for the assists, that again goes into the fact that LeBron is on ball constantly while Wade is off it constantly.

But I agree that it isn't about who is 1 or 2, I do not want to get into an argument about that. I was just speaking to the 'outsider perspective' and how I thought it was unfounded. I only disagree that its all on the coach. I think it is the system in place, and I don't think that is entirely up to Spo.

[BronBron06]

Speaking of Cleveland, if they had just a slightly higher level players at a few positions, they would've had championships.

Actually Cavs could have won if it wasnt for the INJURIES players suffered and Stubborness of Coach Mike "Potato Head" Brown

If only Z wasnt having Back Problems during Orlando Series
If only Ben Wallace wasnt having Broken Leg pains and fatigued during the Playoffs

-------------------

If only 2nd most important Cavs player Varejao didnt collide with Rose leading to injury in the 1st round
LeBron's Elbow

-------------------

Oh and Mike Brown refusal to make ingame changes and timeouts.

Like Rotation on Lewis and Hedo
and
Jamison on KG, and not playing Delonte and Moon


1 GREAT REASON WHY I DONT WANT SPO ... MIKE BROWN 2.0 IS TO NOT RUIN the OFF-SEASON