Official game Thread - Wizards vs Rockets 11/10/10

[JonathanJoseph]

You seem to just randomly make things up. What basis do you have for this suggestion that Singleton was responsible for Blatche's success? If he was so valuable why did no team in the NBA want to offer him anything other than the veterans minimum salary?

I can see why ANY team would take a free 1 year flyer on Yi. He's looked awful so far, but I personally am confused trying to reconcile what I see versus what I saw during the World Championships. Looks like a different player. In what is a throwaway season of development, a free chance to give Yi the chance to realize his potential seems like a reasonable gamble, at the least. If the Wizards signed Yi to be the final piece to the puzzle, there would be a more legitimate complaint.

I don't make things up (see below). I would have replied much earlier but my schedule doesn't allow me to right now.

Can you please inform me what else I've "made up"???

Dat, you're talking about this Singleton-Blatche relationship like you were there or something. I never saw anything written about Blatche's production being due in part to Singleton's leadership. Certainly never heard Dray talk about. Never heard any whispers of DRay being upset Singleton wasn't retained.

Dray's development is going to be most helped by him getting in shape and getting in a lot of reps with his brand new teammates. While I'd prefer Singleton to Yi, I don't think it's going to change the course of the franchisee one way or the other.

Fish, here ya go...

But what impressed me most about him was his demeanor in the locker room. I know, I know, I make fun of people who talk about this stuff, but Singleton really showed me a lot in this regard while I had access. He immediately became a leader, encouraging players and talking to them during workouts even though he just got here. He became a mentor figure for Andray Blatche in a way that was much more significant than Antawn Jamison ever was. The two had their locker next to each other, and both guys talked about how much the other meant to them. Why was this able to happen so quickly? My theory is that Singleton, unlike Jamison, is pretty light-hearted. He's a practical jokester, as this video proves, and he always manages to have a smile on his face, as opposed to Jamison, who rarely was smiling by the end of his tenure here. At the same time, he understands when to get serious, considering the long road he's taken to get here. Because of that, I think Blatche felt more of a connection to him, as opposed to Jamison, who was so different that Blatche couldn't relate to him. Either way, it wasn't hard to see Singleton's affect on Blatche, and JaVale McGee for that matter.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/5/17 ... evaluation

With few noticing, Singleton emerged as a key role player for the Wizards last year. He changed his game from being a jump-shooting small power forward to being a rebounder that did the dirty work. His positive outlook was infectious in keeping what should have been a dour clubhouse loose, and he became very close with Andray Blatche in particular. (I am forever convinced that Blatche's success last season would not have happened without Singleton being around keeping him at ease). But that's the thing: few noticed. It's tough to get much attention as a glue guy for a 26-56 team, especially one with as anonymous a name as James Singleton.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/9/6/ ... heading-to

This reminds me of the time Singleton stood up for Andray Blatche. Several games after Andray’s ordeal with not wanting (essentially) to go back in the game, a reporter asked Blatche, paraphrasing, about how that incident affected him and pressed him to comment. Singleton didn’t like the line of questioning, which, in my opinion, seemed to be fair. But it didn’t matter to James. He clearly knew that Blatche didn’t want to bring up the past at that moment and stepped in for his teammate, showing that he had his back. That’s a small sample of the guy James Singleton seemed to be

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2010/09/sha ... again.html

How interesting.

Blatche just gave the very good Scola/Hayes tandem 20/11/3/2 on 9-21 FG.

Now what was your point about Blatche's success having to do with Singleton?

[Hoopalotta]

JJ with an absolutely historically pathetic counter argument. Are you kidding me? Blatche scores 20 points and this means that Dat's point that there's not enough steady vets deeper in the rotation is moot? Wow. Just, wow.

[JonathanJoseph]

A few quick thoughts:

The Bulls franchise gets a lot of pub for the Rose/Boozer 1-2 punch. Wall/Blatche will be clearly better than Rose/Boozer within a year. Both are under contract to the Wiz at very reasonable cap figures for 5 years too.

McGee is also improving with every game. He's worth the growing pains.

Gil's floor game still looks tremendous to me. As in even if he's lost 1.5 steps, if his shot is falling he's still an all-NBA player. Arenas cerebral game has been off the charts. His Ast/TO ratio is already good and if players were finishing it would be extremely high. He's reluctant to shoot, but he's running the offense, getting teammates good shots and he's NOT turning the ball over, at all. He doesn't look as"fast" as he used to, but he still gets wherever he wants on the floor. We know Gil is a rhythm shooter, so I'm fine to wait until he finds his rhythm and confidence. But good gracious, Wall + Arenas + chemistry = potentially ridiculous

Yi looked really good. That play where Wall hit him and he jumped through his man and dunked was a ridiculous play for a player of that size. Need to see it much more often/consistently before I can get excited about him being more than a mirage, but either way I'm quite happy with EG's decision to take a flyer on him this season.

Nice hustle, Al. Still not sure I like him long term but he played a great game.

[JonathanJoseph]

JJ with an absolutely historically pathetic counter argument. Are you kidding me? Blatche scores 20 points and this means that Dat's point that there's not enough steady vets deeper in the rotation is moot? Wow. Just, wow.

No, Dat's point had nothing to do with depth in the frontcourt which no one would dispute is a weakness.

His point was very specific to Singleton playing some large role in Blatche's development. Which would be like if I said that John Wall's early success is due to Cartier Martin's making the team.

[pineappleheadindc]

Screw that. If he can be locked up relatively cheaply, then I'm all for keeping Thornton. It's not just that he's well rounded, he's also emerging as a locker room leader. They guy is busting his butt and setting an example for the others. He's also playing mistake free ball. It's not just that he's playing well, he's playing smart.

Given the CBA situation, my guess is that there won't be many suitors willing to offer Thornton big money this summer. If ever there was an opportunity to sign him cheaply, this summer will be it. The way I see it, we either sign Thornton or Wilson Chandler. If not one of them, then we go with a 1-year stopgap and try to set ourselves up for max cap room in 2012.

I wish to be associated with Nate's comments.

I like AT's aggressiveness and physicality. EG extended Blatche decently. If he can do the same for AT, I say cool.

[Hoopalotta]

JJ with an absolutely historically pathetic counter argument. Are you kidding me? Blatche scores 20 points and this means that Dat's point that there's not enough steady vets deeper in the rotation is moot? Wow. Just, wow.

No, Dat's point had nothing to do with depth in the frontcourt which no one would dispute is a weakness.

His point was very specific to Singleton playing some large role in Blatche's development. Which would be like if I said that John Wall's early success is due to Cartier Martin's making the team.

Well, in that context I could see your counter in a better light, but you've got to take his point with what he was saying in another thread here, which I believe was the practice gate thread about the team needing more leadership.

As far as everything and not specifically limited to the narrower argument:
We're dead last in opponents field goal percentage at the rim.
We're 29th in rebounding and ahead of only Memphis who has been missing Randolph, their best rebounder.
We've got a lot of young guys around.
We have a max player who provides 'guidance' as far as offensive know how and inspires a certain confidence, but pretty much no leadership beyond that as he's a big kid.
We're leading the league in long 2's attempted and that's the least efficient shot in the game.
Flip stormed out of practice with something about "we don't want bad habits to permeate" (or whatever it was) and Hilton Armstrong addressed the team thereafter.

Dat's criticism's can be a bit, well, FULL BORE, but a touch of the old Jimmy Shingles seems like a fair remedy for some of the above from a number of perspectives and is a far cry from an outlandish position. It's too late at night for me to go back and check the exact exchange earlier in this thread and I agree Dray will be alright with whoever he plays with, but the Yi deal versus Singleton and extra cap space is questionable (I actually proposed a Blatche renegotiation early in the summer and it's worth noting that we could have further front loaded that with the cap savings).

Yi of course could still improve and it's almost certain he'll do at least a bit better on the boards, so I'm saying 'questionable' rather than going overboard with it.

[Wizardspride]

Gil's floor game still looks tremendous to me. As in even if he's lost 1.5 steps, if his shot is falling he's still an all-NBA player. Arenas cerebral game has been off the charts. His Ast/TO ratio is already good and if players were finishing it would be extremely high. He's reluctant to shoot, but he's running the offense, getting teammates good shots and he's NOT turning the ball over, at all. He doesn't look as"fast" as he used to, but he still gets wherever he wants on the floor.

I might be wrong but I just assumed that Gil looks a little slower due to the weight gain.

[Hoopalotta]

Oh, but going back the Yi acquisition and hitting on the other side of it: I argued at the time in favor of the idea that the move was made at least partially based on business aspects.

Well, some two hundred million Chinese just watched Wall have one of the most spectacular rookie games in the history of the league. And again, Reebok has a big presence in China and Yi and Wall share an agent.

It's hard for me to accept that this is all inconsequential.

[fishercob]

In case you were having a bad day: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1065680&start=90

[Wizardspride]

Gilbert: I am going to bite my tongue for a few more games, but expect me to start a controversial gil related thread later in the month.

Judging from some of your previous posts regarding Gil, I have a pretty good idea what you'll be discussing.

[closg00]

And Miller might be the worst signing of the offseason. $5 million for an over his prime, slow as a walrus, just got out of bed hair, player.

And why is Yao begging for more minutes when he can't even play 6 without limping off the court..

Worst day to be a Rockets fan. 30 more games watching NJ nets basketball, i might start watching the Golden State Rockets instead.

Great posts over on the Rockets board.

[Dat2U]

JJ with an absolutely historically pathetic counter argument. Are you kidding me? Blatche scores 20 points and this means that Dat's point that there's not enough steady vets deeper in the rotation is moot? Wow. Just, wow.

No, Dat's point had nothing to do with depth in the frontcourt which no one would dispute is a weakness.

His point was very specific to Singleton playing some large role in Blatche's development. Which would be like if I said that John Wall's early success is due to Cartier Martin's making the team.

Come on JJ, you've got to step it up a notch man. I've questioned on multiple occasions the logic of paying $17 mil in cap space for a mentor in the backcourt and 3rd guard and yet totally ignore the front court where McGee, Blatche et all needed all the veteran help they could get.

I've shown the connection b/w Blatche & Singleton and you still dismiss it. How can I argue against that? You've got your head so far up EG's you-know-what that you can't even admit when your wrong. Your just shill for Ernie. Why don't you go right ahead and keeping polishing that executive of the year trophy thinking EG is the best thing since sliced bread. You, Lyrical & Ernie should just get a room.

[dobrojim]

As has been argued before, it seems to me that the whole
issue of KH and the 'trade' for him will be more about if
and to what extent Seraphin becomes a solid NBA player.

Sure it would have been nice to keep Singleton. He would have
been an excellent 3rd/4th big to have around if we were only
interested in winning games this season. That's not the current
priority as nice as it might be to not be suck.

As for Singleton's contribution to AB's development, it's
quite possible that the major effect of his presence has
already happened and that his further presence would
not have made that much difference as far as mentoring
goes.

This issue is how good will Kevin Seraphin be in 2-4 years.

[JonathanJoseph]

JJ with an absolutely historically pathetic counter argument. Are you kidding me? Blatche scores 20 points and this means that Dat's point that there's not enough steady vets deeper in the rotation is moot? Wow. Just, wow.

No, Dat's point had nothing to do with depth in the frontcourt which no one would dispute is a weakness.

His point was very specific to Singleton playing some large role in Blatche's development. Which would be like if I said that John Wall's early success is due to Cartier Martin's making the team.

Come on JJ, you've got to step it up a notch man. I've questioned on multiple occasions the logic of paying $17 mil in cap space for a mentor in the backcourt and 3rd guard and yet totally ignore the front court where McGee, Blatche et all needed all the veteran help they could get.

I've shown the connection b/w Blatche & Singleton and you still dismiss it. How can I argue against that? You've got your head so far up EG's you-know-what that you can't even admit when your wrong. Your just shill for Ernie. Why don't you go right ahead and keeping polishing that executive of the year trophy thinking EG is the best thing since sliced bread. You, Lyrical & Ernie should just get a room.

I'm not sure if anyone's told you but Blatche has been playing all-star basketball for the past 2-3 games. He has abused some of the better PFs in the game in Amare and Luis Scola and somehow he's done it with the great James Singleton on another continent.

For your argument to make any logical sense Blatche would have to be struggling without Singleton, which is simply not the case.

[montestewart]

So it came down to price and opportunity cost. Ernie likely chose between Yi and Singleton and took Yi because he had far more upside. Not looking like the greatest decision now, but I think the functional long term impact will be negligible.

I disagree strongly. A guy like Singleton did a world of good for Blatche last year. As it was previously mentioned, Singleton helped Blatche out a great deal over the second half of last year. Blatche might not have had the type of breakout he did if it wasn't for Singleton talking to him & guiding him whenever Blatche wavered. That type of leadership is invaluable. Not to mention how much winning a few of these games would help with this team's confidence. Yi is a complete waste of a roster spot. Not that Yi's a bad guy or anything. Just a bad basketball player who hurts the team more than he helps it when he's out on the court playing. Yi makes this team worse whenever he plays. Singleton wasn't a great, but his toughness, intangibles & leadership are sorely needed in our frontcourt. It's pretty damn bad when Andray Blatche is the one that's calling for a meeting for the frontcourt players. It's truly a rudderless ship. The impact of that can certainly last well beyond this season.

You seem to just randomly make things up. What basis do you have for this suggestion that Singleton was responsible for Blatche's success? If he was so valuable why did no team in the NBA want to offer him anything other than the veterans minimum salary?

I can see why ANY team would take a free 1 year flyer on Yi. He's looked awful so far, but I personally am confused trying to reconcile what I see versus what I saw during the World Championships. Looks like a different player. In what is a throwaway season of development, a free chance to give Yi the chance to realize his potential seems like a reasonable gamble, at the least. If the Wizards signed Yi to be the final piece to the puzzle, there would be a more legitimate complaint.

Here's the original exchange. Note the bolded in Dat2U's post, none of which suggests what you claim it does in later posts. Blatche doesn't need to regress to validate the point. Note the bolded in your post. Dat2U did a pretty good job of responding to this. So what do you have left? Yep. Maybe he overstated his case, but who am I (or you, for that matter) to judge him for that? Overall, a perfectly logical and valid perspective.

[no D in Hibachi]

JJ with an absolutely historically pathetic counter argument. Are you kidding me? Blatche scores 20 points and this means that Dat's point that there's not enough steady vets deeper in the rotation is moot? Wow. Just, wow.

No, Dat's point had nothing to do with depth in the frontcourt which no one would dispute is a weakness.

His point was very specific to Singleton playing some large role in Blatche's development. Which would be like if I said that John Wall's early success is due to Cartier Martin's making the team.

Come on JJ, you've got to step it up a notch man. I've questioned on multiple occasions the logic of paying $17 mil in cap space for a mentor in the backcourt and 3rd guard and yet totally ignore the front court where McGee, Blatche et all needed all the veteran help they could get.

I've shown the connection b/w Blatche & Singleton and you still dismiss it. How can I argue against that? You've got your head so far up EG's you-know-what that you can't even admit when your wrong. Your just shill for Ernie. Why don't you go right ahead and keeping polishing that executive of the year trophy thinking EG is the best thing since sliced bread. You, Lyrical & Ernie should just get a room.

I think the logic for blowing 17 mil is easy to see. EG and Ted want another high lotto pick to continue building. Therefore they purposefully went into a season with the worst center rotation in the league. Its not the greatest move in my opinion, but thats what OKC did and Teds enamored with their rebuild model.

[Illuminaire]

Quick note on the whole JJ/Dat exchange:

It's probably fair to divide Dat's argument into two primary components.

(A) James Singleton was a catalyst for Blatche's development last year and transition from underachiever to successful basketball player.

(B) James would continue to have a significant impact on Blatche's development this year if we had him on the team.


I think there may be a communication disconnect wherein Dat has overstated point (B), and JJ hasn't recognized point (A) despite excellent support.

[JonathanJoseph]

Quick note on the whole JJ/Dat exchange:

It's probably fair to divide Dat's argument into two primary components.

(A) James Singleton was a catalyst for Blatche's development last year and transition from underachiever to successful basketball player.

(B) James would continue to have a significant impact on Blatche's development this year if we had him on the team.


I think there may be a communication disconnect wherein Dat has overstated point (B), and JJ hasn't recognized point (A) despite excellent support.

Fair enough, although I would still argue that point (A) is of dubious quality unless James Singleton had a super-human sized impact upon the first 24 hours of becoming Blatche's teammate, which is about the time that Blatche "broke out". Or that all of the preseason talk about the new "7-Day Dray" and his hard work with Flip also was bunk until Singleton became that missing ingredient. Or that 5 years of statistical improvement....I could go on.

I'd also be more willing to see the alternate viewpoint if it didn't come from a poster who has proven that he will go to any length to find ways to criticize management, and this certainly appeared to be another attempt at that rather than a genuine attempt to salute Singleton's impact on Blatche. An argument that, again, has been made moot by Blatche's play of late.