Not even overreacting....we should trade Amare

[luvher_501]

We didn't lowball him. We gave him an incredibly fair deal with minutes-based incentives. He refused and took the fully guaranteed offer from you guys(an overpayment by most Suns fans standards). We didn't want to give him a fully guaranteed deal due to health concerns. As far as your role player comment...he WAS a role-player. He is the greatest assisted-finisher in the NBA. He was a finely-tuned offensive weapon...but we didn't need that for $100 mill. Warrick's a bargain right now and Nash has worked his magic once again.

As far as the sign and trade thing...that's what happens when Robert Sarver thinks he's a better GM than the GM he pushed out(Kerr). We mismanaged that pretty turribly.

You mismanaged the whole thing terribly. From low-balling Stoudemire, apparently because you thought you had more time (no one would sign until Lebron decided) and less competition for him (no one would give him more than that deal) and than having to scramble to fill what he brought by throwing more money at 3 guys (Turkeyglue, Frye and Warrick) than it would have cost to keep him. You can't point to Warrick who has hardly shown he's replaced Stoudemire and ignore the cost of Turkeyglue and Frye.

Actually they didnt low ball amare..he got a offer similar to the one the knicks signed him to the only difference was the last year or so was incentive laced and the knicks were the only one that offered him a fully guaranteed contract...Because of his injury history that was very smart.....

[DRK]

The Suns inexperienced ownership "lowballed". You don't offer that to your top guy, your biggest name, your cornerstone player right off the bat regardless of what you may or may not think he's worth (or if you did or didn't want him back...and you have no idea what they did or didn't want). And if you don't think he was worth that what on earth has Turkeyglue, Frye and Warrick done to warrant thinking that they are worth combined what they got? The Suns would still be better if they had just given Stoudemire what he got from the Knicks (remember they still have Nash which makes Stoudemire still a potent weapon and nothing that Warrick does will top that). As far as worries about his knees? You mean the ones he got worked on 4 years ago? Why is 3 years or 4 years fine but damn that 5th year no good? Come on...they (Sarver) had no clue on how to be a GM and he got caught with his pants down.

Amare is, and never was, a max contract player. He's a dynamite scorer and that is about it. His game relies solely on his athletic abilities. Amare is currently pushing 28, which is about the time when you lose your athleticism. Committing a guaranteed 100 million to him over 5 years was just too much of a risk, considering his age and his injury past.

I agree the Turkoglu trade was dumb, and a waste of money. But the Warrick and Frye (re) signing's were not. Frye got exactly what he deserved; market value. If you watch him this season, his defense and reboudning have improved dramatically, not to mention he still has his deadly three point shot. Warrick is a bargain at 4 million a year. He's putting up almost similar stats to Amare in less minutes, and he is paid paid a fifth of what Amare is.

[moocow007]

[

The Suns inexperienced ownership "lowballed". You don't offer that to your top guy, your biggest name, your cornerstone player right off the bat regardless of what you may or may not think he's worth. And if you don't think he was worth that what on earth has Turkeyglue, Frye and Warrick done to warrant thinking that they are worth combined what they got? The Suns would still be better if they had just given Stoudemire what he got from the Knicks (remember they still have Nash which makes Stoudemire still a potent weapon and nothing that Warrick does will top that). As far as worries about his knees? You mean the ones he got worked on 4 years ago? Why is 3 years or 4 years fine but damn that 5th year no good? Come on...they (Sarver) had no clue on how to be a GM and he got caught with his pants down.

He wasn't our top guy. He wasn't our biggest name. He wasn't our cornerstone player. Rightly or wrongly(mostly rightly), Nash was/is the face of our franchise, and he was/is definitely our best player.

Don't ask about Turkey-Glue. That was effed up. Blame Lance Banks, whoever the hell that is.

We have a series of assets that we can use in a trade for either a)financial flexibility if we need it, or b)combined for a good player if one should ever become available. The uncertainty about the new CBA makes huge contracts to injury-prone players unwise, which is why we offered Amare a contract based off (very-low) minutes-based incentives. It was a fair-deal. If he wanted to win, he would have chosen Phoenix, coming off a WCF trip. He wanted money and fame, so he went to New York. I don't blame him. Go get yours while you still have the chance. He LEFT US, not the other way around.

We're worried about his knees that got worked on 5 years ago. The operation has a 6-7 year shelf-life. We didn't bet on him being healthy, and we already lost a whole season of his tenure with us due to that surgery. Luckily, our tiny Canadian man was still around to lead us to the WCF again, without the so-called "cornerstone" sitting injured on the bench.

Sarver is a terrible GM. Kerr/Griffin should not have been let go. We got this bro. We're more upset about it than you are.

You're still missing the point. IF money was an issue then why did they bother trading for Turkeyglue and then competing against themselves to sign Frye and Warrick to what most thought were excessive contracts? What exactly has any of these three guys proven that makes them better gambles? (the answer is diddly squat). Even if Stoudemire plays just 3 years the expectation is that he'd produce more than this gaggle of role players in 5 years. It's not about the individual players, its about the misguided notion that the Suns didn't want Stoudemire because he wasn't worth the money (they invested essentially the same money the Knicks gave Stoudemire which they could have also gave Stoudemire on 3 lesser role players). Doesn't matter what Warrick has done, no one would expect that he could have done it. And I could care less about the Suns fans feelings about their GM situation so "bro" you not getting it.

[luvher_501]

If the knicks were going to pay Amare 100 mil at least use the man properly ......how can you have your best player getting the ball at the three point line ....amares biggest asset is his ability to finish at the rim....but he cant do that with where he is receiving the ball which is part of the reason he is getting so many turnovers.....

and the jump shots got to go ...thats dumb

[moocow007]

The Suns inexperienced ownership "lowballed". You don't offer that to your top guy, your biggest name, your cornerstone player right off the bat regardless of what you may or may not think he's worth (or if you did or didn't want him back...and you have no idea what they did or didn't want). And if you don't think he was worth that what on earth has Turkeyglue, Frye and Warrick done to warrant thinking that they are worth combined what they got? The Suns would still be better if they had just given Stoudemire what he got from the Knicks (remember they still have Nash which makes Stoudemire still a potent weapon and nothing that Warrick does will top that). As far as worries about his knees? You mean the ones he got worked on 4 years ago? Why is 3 years or 4 years fine but damn that 5th year no good? Come on...they (Sarver) had no clue on how to be a GM and he got caught with his pants down.

Amare is, and never was, a max contract player. He's a dynamite scorer and that is about it. His game relies solely on his athletic abilities. Amare is currently pushing 28, which is about the time when you lose your athleticism. Committing a guaranteed 100 million to him over 5 years was just too much of a risk, considering his age and his injury past.

I agree the Turkoglu trade was dumb, and a waste of money. But the Warrick and Frye (re) signing's were not. Frye got exactly what he deserved; market value. If you watch him this season, his defense and reboudning have improved dramatically, not to mention he still has his deadly three point shot. Warrick is a bargain at 4 million a year. He's putting up almost similar stats to Amare in less minutes, and he is paid paid a fifth of what Amare is.

You're also not getting the point. The point is about the money that they could have spent on Stoudemire in a max deal not being worthwhile but gambling essentially that same amount of money on 3 role players being somehow worth it. That the Suns weren't caught with their pants down because of Sarver's silly notion that anyone can be a GM. That's the point that I'm apparently not doing a good enough job trying to make.

[moocow007]

If the knicks were going to pay Amare 100 mil at least use the man properly ......how can you have your best player getting the ball at the three point line ....amares biggest asset is his ability to finish at the rim....but he cant do that with where he is receiving the ball which is part of the reason he is getting so many turnovers.....

and the jump shots got to go ...thats dumb

Absolutely agreed.

[rsavaj]

[

The Suns inexperienced ownership "lowballed". You don't offer that to your top guy, your biggest name, your cornerstone player right off the bat regardless of what you may or may not think he's worth. And if you don't think he was worth that what on earth has Turkeyglue, Frye and Warrick done to warrant thinking that they are worth combined what they got? The Suns would still be better if they had just given Stoudemire what he got from the Knicks (remember they still have Nash which makes Stoudemire still a potent weapon and nothing that Warrick does will top that). As far as worries about his knees? You mean the ones he got worked on 4 years ago? Why is 3 years or 4 years fine but damn that 5th year no good? Come on...they (Sarver) had no clue on how to be a GM and he got caught with his pants down.

He wasn't our top guy. He wasn't our biggest name. He wasn't our cornerstone player. Rightly or wrongly(mostly rightly), Nash was/is the face of our franchise, and he was/is definitely our best player.

Don't ask about Turkey-Glue. That was effed up. Blame Lance Banks, whoever the hell that is.

We have a series of assets that we can use in a trade for either a)financial flexibility if we need it, or b)combined for a good player if one should ever become available. The uncertainty about the new CBA makes huge contracts to injury-prone players unwise, which is why we offered Amare a contract based off (very-low) minutes-based incentives. It was a fair-deal. If he wanted to win, he would have chosen Phoenix, coming off a WCF trip. He wanted money and fame, so he went to New York. I don't blame him. Go get yours while you still have the chance. He LEFT US, not the other way around.

We're worried about his knees that got worked on 5 years ago. The operation has a 6-7 year shelf-life. We didn't bet on him being healthy, and we already lost a whole season of his tenure with us due to that surgery. Luckily, our tiny Canadian man was still around to lead us to the WCF again, without the so-called "cornerstone" sitting injured on the bench.

Sarver is a terrible GM. Kerr/Griffin should not have been let go. We got this bro. We're more upset about it than you are.

You're still missing the point. IF money was an issue then why did they bother trading for Turkeyglue and then competing against themselves to sign Frye and Warrick to what most thought were excessive contracts? What exactly has any of these three guys proven that makes them better gambles? (the answer is diddly squat). Even if Stoudemire plays just 3 years the expectation is that he'd produce more than this gaggle of role players in 5 years. It's not about the individual players, its about the misguided notion that the Suns didn't want Stoudemire because he wasn't worth the money (they invested essentially the same money the Knicks gave Stoudemire which they could have also gave Stoudemire on 3 lesser role players). Doesn't matter what Warrick has done, no one would expect that he could have done it. And I could care less about the Suns fans feelings about their GM situation so "bro" you not getting it.

The whole world knows that trading for Turk was stupid. Even people who've never seen a basketball game would agree.

We didn't think Frye/Warrick were excessive contracts. That's what we're trying to say. They're pieces we want as part of our team moving forward, with or without Nash.

No need to quote the bro. I hope you're not offended by the word mate! I'm cheering for you guys, I really am. Ever since Mike left PHX for NYK, you've been my adopted team, and now that Amare's there I'm rooting even harder. I want you guys to do well and hope you beast in the playoffs this season.

[rsavaj]

The Suns inexperienced ownership "lowballed". You don't offer that to your top guy, your biggest name, your cornerstone player right off the bat regardless of what you may or may not think he's worth (or if you did or didn't want him back...and you have no idea what they did or didn't want). And if you don't think he was worth that what on earth has Turkeyglue, Frye and Warrick done to warrant thinking that they are worth combined what they got? The Suns would still be better if they had just given Stoudemire what he got from the Knicks (remember they still have Nash which makes Stoudemire still a potent weapon and nothing that Warrick does will top that). As far as worries about his knees? You mean the ones he got worked on 4 years ago? Why is 3 years or 4 years fine but damn that 5th year no good? Come on...they (Sarver) had no clue on how to be a GM and he got caught with his pants down.

Amare is, and never was, a max contract player. He's a dynamite scorer and that is about it. His game relies solely on his athletic abilities. Amare is currently pushing 28, which is about the time when you lose your athleticism. Committing a guaranteed 100 million to him over 5 years was just too much of a risk, considering his age and his injury past.

I agree the Turkoglu trade was dumb, and a waste of money. But the Warrick and Frye (re) signing's were not. Frye got exactly what he deserved; market value. If you watch him this season, his defense and reboudning have improved dramatically, not to mention he still has his deadly three point shot. Warrick is a bargain at 4 million a year. He's putting up almost similar stats to Amare in less minutes, and he is paid paid a fifth of what Amare is.

You're also not getting the point. The point is about the money that they could have spent on Stoudemire in a max deal not being worthwhile but gambling essentially that same amount of money on 3 role players being somehow worth it. That the Suns weren't caught with their pants down because of Sarver's silly notion that anyone can be a GM. That's the point that I'm apparently not doing a good enough job trying to make.

Amare's role is being filled right now by Warrick. Amare was/is a role-player. A very, very good one, but ultimately a role-player. After he left us, we replaced him with a cheaper, less effective, but still adequate model, in Warrick.

[moocow007]

Amare is, and never was, a max contract player. He's a dynamite scorer and that is about it. His game relies solely on his athletic abilities. Amare is currently pushing 28, which is about the time when you lose your athleticism. Committing a guaranteed 100 million to him over 5 years was just too much of a risk, considering his age and his injury past.

I agree the Turkoglu trade was dumb, and a waste of money. But the Warrick and Frye (re) signing's were not. Frye got exactly what he deserved; market value. If you watch him this season, his defense and reboudning have improved dramatically, not to mention he still has his deadly three point shot. Warrick is a bargain at 4 million a year. He's putting up almost similar stats to Amare in less minutes, and he is paid paid a fifth of what Amare is.

You're also not getting the point. The point is about the money that they could have spent on Stoudemire in a max deal not being worthwhile but gambling essentially that same amount of money on 3 role players being somehow worth it. That the Suns weren't caught with their pants down because of Sarver's silly notion that anyone can be a GM. That's the point that I'm apparently not doing a good enough job trying to make.

Amare's role is being filled right now by Warrick. Amare was/is a role-player. A very, very good one, but ultimately a role-player. After he left us, we replaced him with a cheaper, less effective, but still adequate model, in Warrick.

You're still not getting the point are you?

[moocow007]

He wasn't our top guy. He wasn't our biggest name. He wasn't our cornerstone player. Rightly or wrongly(mostly rightly), Nash was/is the face of our franchise, and he was/is definitely our best player.

Don't ask about Turkey-Glue. That was effed up. Blame Lance Banks, whoever the hell that is.

We have a series of assets that we can use in a trade for either a)financial flexibility if we need it, or b)combined for a good player if one should ever become available. The uncertainty about the new CBA makes huge contracts to injury-prone players unwise, which is why we offered Amare a contract based off (very-low) minutes-based incentives. It was a fair-deal. If he wanted to win, he would have chosen Phoenix, coming off a WCF trip. He wanted money and fame, so he went to New York. I don't blame him. Go get yours while you still have the chance. He LEFT US, not the other way around.

We're worried about his knees that got worked on 5 years ago. The operation has a 6-7 year shelf-life. We didn't bet on him being healthy, and we already lost a whole season of his tenure with us due to that surgery. Luckily, our tiny Canadian man was still around to lead us to the WCF again, without the so-called "cornerstone" sitting injured on the bench.

Sarver is a terrible GM. Kerr/Griffin should not have been let go. We got this bro. We're more upset about it than you are.

You're still missing the point. IF money was an issue then why did they bother trading for Turkeyglue and then competing against themselves to sign Frye and Warrick to what most thought were excessive contracts? What exactly has any of these three guys proven that makes them better gambles? (the answer is diddly squat). Even if Stoudemire plays just 3 years the expectation is that he'd produce more than this gaggle of role players in 5 years. It's not about the individual players, its about the misguided notion that the Suns didn't want Stoudemire because he wasn't worth the money (they invested essentially the same money the Knicks gave Stoudemire which they could have also gave Stoudemire on 3 lesser role players). Doesn't matter what Warrick has done, no one would expect that he could have done it. And I could care less about the Suns fans feelings about their GM situation so "bro" you not getting it.

The whole world knows that trading for Turk was stupid. Even people who've never seen a basketball game would agree.

We didn't think Frye/Warrick were excessive contracts. That's what we're trying to say. They're pieces we want as part of our team moving forward, with or without Nash.

No need to quote the bro. I hope you're not offended by the word mate! I'm cheering for you guys, I really am. Ever since Mike left PHX for NYK, you've been my adopted team, and now that Amare's there I'm rooting even harder. I want you guys to do well and hope you beast in the playoffs this season.

Mike has been **** here...can you guys take him back?

[rsavaj]

You're still not getting the point are you?

I guess not

"Why not pay Amare the money when you're paying 3 role-players the same amount of money, when Amare would give you better results even if he was injured for 2 years of his 5 year contract?"

My answer to that: I don't think he would give us results better enough to justify putting all our money in one injury-prone basket with the new CBA coming up. At least Frye/Warrick are tradeable with their contracts. If Amare goes down, it'll be hard to find a taker for him.

If I'm still missing the point, my bad man. 1:17, I should probably go to sleep.

[rsavaj]

Mike has been **** here...can you guys take him back?

If you asked me that before Gentry got promoted I would have said yes yes yes, 1000x yes. But Gentry has taken Mike's blueprint and improved on it considerably. We still don't play any defense at all(Mike's teams were better defensively than Alvin's, contrary to popular belief), but the fact that we play 10 guys every night has made a huge, huge difference. We have one of the best benches in the league. Before tonight's game(I haven't calculated the stats), our bench was averaging 40.9 ppg. Many times this season and last they've outplayed our starters. Mike's 04/05 squad's "bench" was Jim Jackson, Barbosa, and Steven Hunter, averaging...17.8 ppg. D'Antoni is just stubborn as an ox. For sure, Gentry has been blessed with much better bench players than Mike ever got to work with here(Piatkowski, Pat Burke, Sean Marks, Walter McCarthy, Paul Shirley, Yuta Tabuse....scrub city), but I think Gentry has a much better touch with getting the most out of his utility players.

[TheBluest]

I wish we would have attempted to trade Lee for Rolo and Clark then we wouldn't have had to fork over $100mil to Amar'e

[luvher_501]

If the knicks were going to pay Amare 100 mil at least use the man properly ......how can you have your best player getting the ball at the three point line ....amares biggest asset is his ability to finish at the rim....but he cant do that with where he is receiving the ball which is part of the reason he is getting so many turnovers.....

and the jump shots got to go ...thats dumb

Absolutely agreed.

I'm not a fan of him shooting those jumpers or three's regardless if he hits them or not....thats playing into your opponents hand .....he needs to be doing pick and roll and dunking on the finish....thats a waste of money if your going to have him shooting jumpers...you could have kept Lee if thats the case ..at least Lee would get you some rebounds with his jumper..

and for love to get 30 points 30 rebounds is a disgrace......thats not helping the knicks cause to get Melo ..because he has to think about how bad they look now

[Christine-In-AZ]

You're also not getting the point. The point is about the money that they could have spent on Stoudemire in a max deal not being worthwhile but gambling essentially that same amount of money on 3 role players being somehow worth it. That the Suns weren't caught with their pants down because of Sarver's silly notion that anyone can be a GM. That's the point that I'm apparently not doing a good enough job trying to make.

They traded 7mil salaried Barbosa for 11mil per Turkoglu ...so it's only 4mil bump
They replaced Barbosa roster spot with Childress at 5.7 ...now they're at 9.7mil
Bring in Warrick for 4.2 and re-sign Frye by adding 3.5mil to his paycheck for a total of 17.4 million

It's not 3 "role players" it's 4- Turk, Childress, Warrick and Frye for a little less than the price of keeping STAT.

Turkoglu won't be so bad when he isn't playing the 4 and Warrick is doing just fine as "Amare-lite"...
Warrick- 27 mins/14ppg/64 FG%/5.4 rebs/1.2 TO
Stoudemire- 35 mins/20ppg/44 FG%/8.0 rebs/4.5 TO

[duetta]

Last year Phoenix was asking for the Moon and Sun for Amare - and there were clubs interested in approaching that price, including GS. I do think that Amare can be traded, especially to a contender - and that a prudent management would consider moving him while he still has significant value. It would send a bad message in a certain sense - but winning (which often requires recognizing, and then correcting, mistakes early) is the only message that really matters at the end of the day anyway.

Again, I would begin by making him available to Denver in a Melo trade - and if you can pull that off, then look to reshape the team around Melo.

[mybloodisorange]

Amare is a star on the offensive side of the court. Unfortunately he is a below average defender who takes alot of plays off to conserve energy to score and with his athleticism he could easily average 12 boards a game. Problem is he doesnt care about rebounding, he barely ever boxes out. All he wants to do is score which in fairness he is very good at. This is why Phoenix didnt sign him for 5 years 100 million. He makes opposing forwards look like stars; case in point he just made Kevin Love look like Wilt Chamberlain. Ive watched every game he played in phoenix since he was drafted and im telling you he isnt going to change.

The guy doesnt box out and plays half ass on defense. There is no way you are winning a title with a team built around Amare; he cares more about fashion and feeding his own ego than stopping his opponent from scoring. In his mind if he plays tough defense he will get more fouls. And you all know what foul trouble means...He cant score from the bench.

Enjoy your new star.

[schnakenpopanz]

dont like bashing amare, its proven that he is not the no. 1 guy on the boards and not the player to lead a team, but its proven too, that he is a deadley weapon alongside an other star player.

[DRK]

The Suns inexperienced ownership "lowballed". You don't offer that to your top guy, your biggest name, your cornerstone player right off the bat regardless of what you may or may not think he's worth (or if you did or didn't want him back...and you have no idea what they did or didn't want). And if you don't think he was worth that what on earth has Turkeyglue, Frye and Warrick done to warrant thinking that they are worth combined what they got? The Suns would still be better if they had just given Stoudemire what he got from the Knicks (remember they still have Nash which makes Stoudemire still a potent weapon and nothing that Warrick does will top that). As far as worries about his knees? You mean the ones he got worked on 4 years ago? Why is 3 years or 4 years fine but damn that 5th year no good? Come on...they (Sarver) had no clue on how to be a GM and he got caught with his pants down.

Amare is, and never was, a max contract player. He's a dynamite scorer and that is about it. His game relies solely on his athletic abilities. Amare is currently pushing 28, which is about the time when you lose your athleticism. Committing a guaranteed 100 million to him over 5 years was just too much of a risk, considering his age and his injury past.

I agree the Turkoglu trade was dumb, and a waste of money. But the Warrick and Frye (re) signing's were not. Frye got exactly what he deserved; market value. If you watch him this season, his defense and reboudning have improved dramatically, not to mention he still has his deadly three point shot. Warrick is a bargain at 4 million a year. He's putting up almost similar stats to Amare in less minutes, and he is paid paid a fifth of what Amare is.

You're also not getting the point. The point is about the money that they could have spent on Stoudemire in a max deal not being worthwhile but gambling essentially that same amount of money on 3 role players being somehow worth it. That the Suns weren't caught with their pants down because of Sarver's silly notion that anyone can be a GM. That's the point that I'm apparently not doing a good enough job trying to make.

Okay, I get your point now.
The Suns team philosophy is about utilising the bench. Frye was a huge part of our bench last year, so we had to re-sign him. Warrick and Turkoglu are luxiries.

The reason why we spent the same amount of money (re)signing these guys instead of re-signing Amare was because we knew Amare would decline soon, and they would not. We made ourselves a deeper team by not re-signing Amare and signing Turk, Warrick and Frye.

if we were to have signed Amare but not signed Warrick, Frye and Turk, we would havea better starting lineup, but a eaker bench./ Our bench is about as important as our starting lineup.

Also, with Amare's injury history, it was a safer option to invest the same amount of money in players like Turk, Frye and Warrick that can contribute in many more different ways than Amare.

P.S Sorry if my typing was poor. RealGM is being a douche at the moment, and I can't see what I am typing.

[knicks9784]

to the rockets.

i don't want to sound like I'm spamming, but if we're going to do that, might as well try and get the right(s) to the pick(s) back.

The Rox have no interest in paying Amare 100 million dollars over 5 years.

but they had interest in kevin martin's contract

lets not act like the rockets fiscally responsible here lol