MMA - Why I dont like it

[SDM]

Joe Calzaghe's last fight did 225K buys. He was undefeated, it was a title fight, and he was fighting as bankable (to casual fans) a star boxing has had for the last decade, in RJJ. UFC 96 and its riveting main event of Jardine/Jackson, where you could argue that only Jackson was top ten in his division, did 330K.

Let us push aside that both main events were set up to be squashes. The average person would rather see Rampage killing a fighter on a losing streak than watch an undefeated champion in his retirement bout fight a P4P legend and one of boxing's most recognizable personalities.

Not trying to say boxing sucks or is dead (it will be), but the fans are speaking, and yes, it sounds like the boxing community is praying out loud.

[KNICKS1970]

But, Pacman and PBF have been superstars forever now. There has always been a steady stream of new stars on the rise. Then when MMA came, that completely stopped. There has not been a new superstar in boxing for a very long time. This is not because of a lack of top tier boxers, but a lack of interest and a lack of other stars to get them over.

Since the last boxing superstar (Pacman) there have been plenty of stars born in MMA, but none in boxing. That really doesn't worry anyone? Because I think it should.

Mayweather and Pacquiao broke through in 2007 and 2008, respectively, after the De La Hoya fights. They were stars before then, but not superstars. Guys that break through to the mainstream.

The guys at 140, Bradley/Alexander/Khan/Maidana/Ortiz, are in the position right now that Pacquiao was in from 2005-2007, fighting the other top stars in their division in a round-robin for "Who's next?"

Whoever emerges out of those that mix in the next year or so will get a shot at Pacquiao and/or Mayweather. And from there the next boxing star will emerge.

That's the plan. Promoters aren't putting these guys against each other hoping people catch onto them. The next generation is being built up right now to challenge the old generation. Just like Mayweather and Pacquiao were built up to take on Oscar, and eventually each other.

Anyone who knows boxing history knows how stars are built. They don't happen overnight.

[Blame Rasho]

Don't waste your time Knicks1970... Cammo is right. All of us are wrong, boxing will be dead. We should just admit it.

[Blame Rasho]

Joe Calzaghe's last fight did 225K buys. He was undefeated, it was a title fight, and he was fighting as bankable (to casual fans) a star boxing has had for the last decade, in RJJ. UFC 96 and its riveting main event of Jardine/Jackson, where you could argue that only Jackson was top ten in his division, did 330K.

Let us push aside that both main events were set up to be squashes. The average person would rather see Rampage killing a fighter on a losing streak than watch an undefeated champion in his retirement bout fight a P4P legend and one of boxing's most recognizable personalities.

Not trying to say boxing sucks or is dead (it will be), but the fans are speaking, and yes, it sounds like the boxing community is praying out loud.

Calzaghe was a nobody in America because he never fought here and had a horrible slappt style that even boxing purest disliked. He was all too happy fighting overseas over crowds of 20K plus overseas.

Yeah... I we should all admit that boxing will be dead because you know more than the us. I mean we are so gullible that we are praying out loud according to you and many other MMA fans.

Anyways with the changing demographics it wouldn't surprise me that within a generation that boxing will be stronger than ever.

[REDDzone]

I don't understand why we always see this debate on forums. Its almost like there is a competition between MMA and boxing fans.

Why? Us combat sports guys should stick together...

[cowboyronnie]

Joe Calzaghe's last fight did 225K buys. He was undefeated, it was a title fight, and he was fighting as bankable (to casual fans) a star boxing has had for the last decade, in RJJ. UFC 96 and its riveting main event of Jardine/Jackson, where you could argue that only Jackson was top ten in his division, did 330K.

You're not serious in thinking that contrasting one specific instance to another one specific interest that you hand-picked proves a larger trend, are you?

[Blame Rasho]

I don't understand why we always see this debate on forums. Its almost like there is a competition between MMA and boxing fans.

Why? Us combat sports guys should stick together...

I appreciate MMA and all the things it brings to the table, but when someone says that boxing will be dead and to get used to it? It is just obtuse thinking.

You know as much as we both love our sports... guess what... they are niche sports. They will only be appreciated by a select few.

[funkatron101]

Boxing ain't going anywhere. There is room for both. Both fan bases need to get over this. It's stupid.

[Cammo101]

Boxing ain't going anywhere. There is room for both. Both fan bases need to get over this. It's stupid.

I don't think anyone is hoping for boxing's demise. I know I am not. I love a big boxing match. I am however saying that boxing is trending in an bad direction, and a lot of people seem to freak out at the very mention of it. You can usually judge the validity of something by how bad people freak out when you mention it.

[singh_shady]

You can usually judge the validity of something by how bad people freak out when you mention it.

\

Wow that crazy pastor who wanted to burn those Qur'ans must have been right all along then!

I think good points are made by both sides, along with some bad ones. I've learned a handful of names from reading this thread and I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for their next fights. I continuously hear that Manny and Floyd are once-in-a-generation fighters, so I can only hope that the guys mentioned previously can carry the torch.

I think we can all agree of these points:

-RIGHT NOW the casual sports community and the general sporting media don't care about anyone not named Manny or Floyd and boxing is only in the news a few times a year (whenever those two fight).

-Boxing will undoubtedly find new stars and blockbuster PPV fights will continue to happen

-Boxing is the most unorganized sport ever. I don't know what the f*ck is going on or what any belt means. This is the biggest issue. It's much easier to get into and understand MMA for a person who has never watched combat sports before.

[Cammo101]

-Boxing will undoubtedly find new stars and blockbuster PPV fights will continue to happen.

I pretty much agree with everything but this.

The assumption that because boxing has always had stars, it has to continue to find them like some sort of divine intervention is off based IMO. Horse racing always had star horses like Secretariat or Seabiscuit, until one day people stopped caring and it didn't anymore. Is it possible new stars will come up? Sure. Is anything currently pointing to it happening? Not that I see. Boxing has never had any fight sport competition, so it is in an entirely new realm right now. MMA is churning out stars at a far more rapid clip than boxing, who really has relied on the same 4 or 5 names since MMA went mainstream. Whe RJJ, Hopkins, Pacman, and PBF are gone here in a few years, it is entirely possible that the sagging popularity of boxing overall in America and the popularity of MMA at the same time could prove too much for boxing to overcome in here in the US. Is it a lock? Of course not. But, to act like it is some sort of impossibility is just praying out loud IMO.

[cowboyronnie]

-Boxing will undoubtedly find new stars and blockbuster PPV fights will continue to happen.

I pretty much agree with everything but this.

The assumption that because boxing has always had stars, it has to continue to find them like some sort of divine intervention is off based IMO. Horse racing always had star horses like Secretariat or Seabiscuit, until one day people stopped caring and it didn't anymore. Is it possible new stars will come up? Sure. Is anything currently pointing to it happening? Not that I see. Boxing has never had any fight sport competition, so it is in an entirely new realm right now. MMA is churning out stars at a far more rapid clip than boxing, who really has relied on the same 4 or 5 names since MMA went mainstream. Whe RJJ, Hopkins, Pacman, and PBF are gone here in a few years, it is entirely possible that the sagging popularity of boxing overall in America and the popularity of MMA at the same time could prove too much for boxing to overcome in here in the US. Is it a lock? Of course not. But, to act like it is some sort of impossibility is just praying out loud IMO.

In other words, it's completely impossible to judge whether new stars will rise. You can't hold the variables.

Despite what you claim, boxing has had plenty of competition. Fuedal-style catch wrestling (in Lanchashire, etc.), American catch wrestling, pro wrestling, savate, the amateurizing of judo/Greco/TKD, etc....a qazillion martial arts.

There've been stars since John L. Sullivan, but the sky is falling says Cammo93. John L-to-Manny P. RIP boxing. 140 years since the Marques of Queensbury.

[KNICKS1970]

I'd like for Cammo to respond to my post about how the next generation of stars are being built up RIGHT NOW to take on Pacquiao and Mayweather, but I'm not sure if he can read it through his tunnel vision.

Seriously, does any of MMA fan/boxing haters here actually think Golden Boy and Top Rank are going to sit around and fold up shop once Manny Pacquiao goes to Congress and Floyd Mayweather goes to whatever district will hear his bankruptcy plea?

The next wave of stars are being built up as I write this. Golden Boy is grooming Amir Khan to take on Floyd Mayweather, and Bob Arum has been talking about Pacquiao eventually fighting the Bradley-Alexander winner next fall.

And anyone who sees Saul Alvarez kick ass knows he's going to be a star. Just watch the Baldomir fight. Not the best competition, but watch how the crowd responds to him. The kid has it.

Seriously, I'm looking forward to the "Boxing will die once Saul Alvarez retires!" talk from the MMA crowd.

[Cammo101]

I'd like for Cammo to respond to my post about how the next generation of stars are being built up RIGHT NOW to take on Pacquiao and Mayweather, but I'm not sure if he can read it through his tunnel vision.

Seriously, does any of MMA fan/boxing haters here actually think Golden Boy and Top Rank are going to sit around and fold up shop once Manny Pacquiao goes to Congress and Floyd Mayweather goes to whatever district will hear his bankruptcy plea?

The next wave of stars are being built up as I write this. Golden Boy is grooming Amir Khan to take on Floyd Mayweather, and Bob Arum has been talking about Pacquiao eventually fighting the Bradley-Alexander winner next fall.

And anyone who sees Saul Alvarez kick ass knows he's going to be a star. Just watch the Baldomir fight. Not the best competition, but watch how the crowd responds to him. The kid has it.

Seriously, I'm looking forward to the "Boxing will die once Saul Alvarez retires!" talk from the MMA crowd.

There is no lack of talent in boxing. But, Mayweather is not going to fight these young guys who could possibly beat him for "the good of the sport" and Pacman seems to have his foot halfway out the door already. What happens if these guys decide they have better things to do than get over the new breed like you seem to think is a certainty. This is not pro wrestling where guys get other guys over for the good of the company.

It is certainly possible that someone beats one of the big 2 and becomes a star. But, the margin for error here is thin. What if both go out before losing? What if the guy that beats them flames out? Then what?

[KNICKS1970]

There is no lack of talent in boxing. But, Mayweather is not going to fight these young guys who could possibly beat him for "the good of the sport" and Pacman seems to have his foot halfway out the door already. What happens if these guys decide they have better things to do than get over the new breed like you seem to think is a certainty. This is not pro wrestling where guys get other guys over for the good of the company.

It is certainly possible that someone beats one of the big 2 and becomes a star. But, the margin for error here is thin. What if both go out before losing? What if the guy that beats them flames out? Then what?

Here's where the disconnect is. You have it right that Mayweather and Pacquiao won't just fight these guys for the good of the sport. But you think these guys need Pacquiao and Mayweather to become stars. That's not how it works. I'm saying these guys are being built up into stars, so they can take on Mayweather and Pacquiao. If Pacquiao and Mayweather retire before fighting them, then that's fine, because they'll already be stars.

Listen, boxing fans have heard this BS from the media for decades. When Ali retired, boxing was dead. When Sugar Ray Leonard retired, boxing was dead. Tyson-Holyfield was supposed to be the last hurrah for boxing. Then De La Hoya-Trinidad. Then Lewis-Tyson. Then De La Hoya-Mayweather. Now Pacquiao-Mayweather.

My issue with people who say that "boxing is dying!" is that how short sighted the argument is. Non-boxing fans always think the current big star is the last big star. Throughout boxing history. This is going all the way back to John L. Sullivan. This has ALWAYS been argued. And they have ALWAYS been wrong. Because they don't follow the sport closely, they don't see the line up hungry, upcoming fighters waiting for their chance. What you are arguing about Mayweather and Pacquiao is no different from what was said about Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson and Oscar De La Hoya. No difference at all. None.

Do you honestly think Bob Arum and Richard Schaefer are just going to throw their hands up and say "Oh god, no. Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather are gone. Boxing is dead. Let's go beg Dana White to give us a job." They're going to push the next big thing. And as long as there are exciting fighters and exciting fights to be made, there will always be the next big fighter or next big fight.

Are there problems with boxing? Sure. Is MMA a more popular sport? On the whole, it is. Is boxing dying? No chance in hell.

[Cammo101]

That is a well thought out response, but what I think you are not taking into account is that for the first time boxing fans hsve been shown an alternative (MMA). Not only has MMA cut into boxing, it has overtaken it to some degree. If you have no competition then inevitably some of the people who do well will become stars out of necessity. Arum and the rest of the promoters will do their best to build more stars, that is not in doubt.

There will always be stars in fight sports. IMO it is debatable how long they will be boxers. What if the next big things that follow Pacman are Jon Jones and Cain Velasquez?

I will say that boxing will never die on an international level. But, it very well could tank pretty badly in America. And for the record, despite the fact that I seem to be cast as some sort of anti-boxing villian here, I actually grew up on boxing and like it quite a bit. I still have vivid memories of where I was when Holyfield/Bowe, Gatti/Ward, Tyson/Holyfield, Tyson/Douglas happened. I'm not hoping boxing tanks, I am predicting it. Not the same thing.

[TheBathinApe]

I think the main reason why Boxing and MMA are compared so much is because to the casual viewer, they just see two guys beating up each other. They don't realize there's method behind the madness.
People don't view Boxing as a martial art (which it is), most people think if isn't self-defense it isn't martial arts.

Boxing is an art form, MMA isn't. MMA is just a set of rules under which a fight is fought under.They both really shouldn't be compared. If you compare boxing with karate, that would me a better comparison than comparing it to MMA.

Any ways boxing wont die and MMA will keep growing as a sport (hopefully). This MMA vs boxing bull needs to stop, they both are entertaining. Its just different strokes for different folks.

[cowboyronnie]

Juan Manuel Marquez vs Katsidis - watch it. Unbelievable level of skill, amazing heart, action-packed...boxing...last night.