How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS%

[SweetTouch]

Rondo is the reason why Boston can't beat La in the finals again

[PPAW4Life]

Rondo is on a stacked team....but his numbers are actually deflated.

You put him on a "bad" team and he will average close to a triple double while scoring 20 ppg and 3-5 spg. (21 ppg, 11 apg, 7 rpg, 3.5 spg) because he is that talented.

Fans make a big deal about scoring but you give anyone enough touches and they will score....it's really not that hard...add to that there are only a handful of players who actually want to play defense scoring is the easiest thing to do in the game.

Fans think Rondo is a "system" player is just downright wrong. The C's system is based on defense. They couldn't careless about their offense. If Rondo was on an uptempo team he would average 17 to 20 apg. Put Rondo on the Suns with more shooters he would be racking up assists like they were going out of style.

In truth playing with 4 Future HOF's doesn't mean he's actually playing with 4 HOF's.....he's really playing with 4 very good players with occasional great individual performances here and there.

The haters think that Pierce, Allen, KG, and Shaq make Rondo "look good" and there's some truth to that. But Rondo in turn makes the other guys look even better. He not only gets them the ball....but he gets them the ball where they like it and he gets them easier shots.

Maybe there are better shooting PG's....better scoring PG's....and even better athletic PG's....but right now there is no better true PG than Rondo.

[eloper]

My favorite part about the OPs post is he uses TS% as a measure of offensive efficiency. ALOT of things go into offensive efficiency, including turnover rate, offensive rebound rate, and assist rate. Rondo's oRtg (a measure of efficiency: points produced per 100 possessions used) is 112. The league average tends to be around 105 or so. He's FAR from inefficient offensively, quite the opposite actually.

The Celtics offense is currently 7th in the NBA in oRtg. If it weren't for JO and Nate Robinson being AWFUL thus far, they'd easily be top 5. If Rondo were "inefficient," while using as many possessions as he does, that simply wouldn't be plausible.

EDIT: By the way, anyone who has seen the Celtics without KG and/or Pierce and/or Allen healthy knows that Rondo's capable of putting up big scoring numbers. Yes he's been an inefficient scorer this season, but it's a small sample size and historically he's been above average efficiency wise scoring the ball.

[microfib4thewin]

I think people who are suggesting that Paul, Williams, Nash, Westbrook, or Rose would average "at least that many assists" if they were on the Celtics needs to take a step back and think about it for a second. Who has actually done that in NBA history? Not Magic Johnson. Not John Stockton. Not Isiah Thomas. Not Oscar Robertson. Not Bob Cousy. Never in the 60-year history of the NBA has any player averaged that many assists per game for a full season. Rondo's assists per game are almost certainly going to come down over the course of the season. Anyone who believes that a different point guard would be getting more is delusional.

Which has nothing to do with who's better than whom. Just, don't go around talking about 15 APG as if it's just about having the right teammates. If it was, then someone would have done it by now.

That's all fine and dandy, but to say others like Magic or Oscar haven't done it as if they were limited in their playmaking ability is not being truthful. It's easier to rack up assists when you don't look to score, and that's what Rondo is doing, looking to pass even when he should be scoring.

Still, what Rondo is doing is fantastic, despite his flaws I would have difficulty saying he's not a top 5 PG.

[Foye]

I'm kinda confused. Rondo is at least a top 5 PG in the league.

It's not the task of a PG to score. PG's sole responsibility is to dictate the flow of his teams offense and distract the opposing PG while he tries to set up the opponents teams offense. Rondo does that almost perfect. He creates easy looks for his teammates and defends opposing PG's perfectly. What more do you want?

He's good enough to capitalize inside when opponents leave him too open. He really doesn't have to shoot mid or long range jump shots with more capable shooters on his team.

For the record. Rondo would be a great PG on the Bulls (or any other team) as well. Dude dictates the flow of the game almost perfect and will get any of his teammates easy scoring opportunities. Now the problem is: would the guys on the Bulls or Hornets capitalize from those opportunities as good as the C's can with all their individual class? That's the sticking point. If your team has skilled players that are able to hit those open shots Rondo provides at a high rate then you'll be great with Rondo. If there's a handful of players who are not able to capitalize on those opportunities then you might be better off with a guy who scores more like D Rose.

[rsavaj]

If Rondo was on an uptempo team he would average 17 to 20 apg. Put Rondo on the Suns with more shooters he would be racking up assists like they were going out of style.

In truth playing with 4 Future HOF's doesn't mean he's actually playing with 4 HOF's.....he's really playing with 4 very good players with occasional great individual performances here and there.

Maybe there are better shooting PG's....better scoring PG's....and even better athletic PG's....but right now there is no better true PG than Rondo.

comedy gold

[blueNorange]

Still a great point guard, though, and better than the likes of Rose or Westbrook IMO. Just not quite on the same level as CP3, D-Will, and Nash.

both rose and westbrook have a 2.2 a/t ratio which is very poor.

they're more scoring guards than point guards.

[rsavaj]

Is the Celtics team a good fit for Rondo. Yeah, he certainly fits in well there, but there would be even better teams for him. The Magic would be far better, for one, because they could actually keep up with him. Rondo has to slow down for the geriatrics in Beantown. Quite a few others would be just as good. The Hawks being an OBVIOUS choice there. Rondo is a playmaking point guard, and a guy like him needs guys whose buttons he can push to have his greatest impact.

Your post was very well written and I agree with all of it. One question though, the topic of this thead is how can you consider Rondo a top 3 PG with such bad shooting %s. As you said, if you put him on the hawks instead of Bibby or the Magic instead of Jameer Nelson, of course they would be better. The more relevant question would be, what if you put him on the Hornets instead of CP? On the Bulls instead of D-Rose? On the Jazz instead of Deron? On the Suns instead of Nash? Would THOSE teams be better or worse? I can't really say in any of those circumstances those teams would be clearly better? And in some, I think they would be worse.

Again, great post, just playing devil's advocate the one part about putting Rondo on other teams.

CP3 is one of the two PGs who I consider to be better than Rondo. The other is Deron. Not a whole ton better, but I have them above him.

The Suns? They would be a better team. More explosive and a better defensive team. The Suns have some issues with the bigs situation, but I think that Nash is starting to lose his touch. Rondo would actually be a more effective scorer than Nash in that offense, believe it or not, with all of the smalls running around and the floor stretching bigs that they play. Rondo is an explosive athlete, and there are lanes galore there that Nash isn't able to exploit because he just isn't that fast. Look at how Dragic is able to get to the cup, and factor in that Rondo makes him look like he is running in cement shoes. Rondo is just flat out better than Nash now.

Nash is averaging 19/9 on 50% FG, 40% 3PT. The idea that Rondo would be a "MORE EFFECTIVE SCORER" than Nash in the offense that REVOLVES AROUND NASH is completely ridiculous and without merit.

[rsavaj]

why is he arguablly the 4th best playmaker in the league?

Because he's arguably better than all but 3 point guards. I am still of the opinion CP3, Deron and Nash are better playmakers, considering the team-mates they've had success with over the past few seasons.

I'm sorry, but I thought assists were the best way to judge a player's playmaking ability. Have we come up with a better way?

Look at who each player is passing to.

[ahonui06]

15apg

I don't believe 15apg is a big deal. The fact that he could get 15apg and still cause his team a victory is the problem.

Celtics are 9-2 and the best team in the East.

[ahonui06]

Rondo is the reason why Boston can't beat La in the finals again

If you say so. But, he will be a major reason why the Celtics would beat the Heat in the playoffs if they meet. Arroyo & Chalmers would get annihilated.

[RichardsRival3]

Still a great point guard, though, and better than the likes of Rose or Westbrook IMO. Just not quite on the same level as CP3, D-Will, and Nash.

both rose and westbrook have a 2.2 a/t ratio which is very poor.

they're more scoring guards than point guards.

thats not really a good stat to measure effectiveness of a pg. Remember Rose is primary distributor and scorer for the Bulls thus has a lot more responsibility than Rondo. So of course he will have more TOs than Rondo.

[NYK 455]

I like Rondo, but he got massively overrated, fast. He's not even on the same level as Paul, Nash, and Williams, and might not even be quite as good as Rose or Westbrook. Yet I've seen some declare him the best PG in the game.

[bc legends]

I like Rondo, but he got massively overrated, fast. He's not even on the same level as Paul, Nash, and Williams, and might not even be quite as good as Rose or Westbrook. Yet I've seen some declare him the best PG in the game.

Not a surprise I see you hating on him, just as in every other Rondo thread. Not as good as Westbrook?

If Rondo was on an uptempo team he would average 17 to 20 apg. Put Rondo on the Suns with more shooters he would be racking up assists like they were going out of style.

In truth playing with 4 Future HOF's doesn't mean he's actually playing with 4 HOF's.....he's really playing with 4 very good players with occasional great individual performances here and there.

Maybe there are better shooting PG's....better scoring PG's....and even better athletic PG's....but right now there is no better true PG than Rondo.

comedy gold

Pretty sure what he meant was that these future HOFs are only a shell of their former selves. Find some common sense and learn how to use it.

[Don Draper]

People forget Nash can't guard anyone in the NBA. He tries but he is still bad. If we talking about offense only then it is Nash, if we are talking about the complete games I don't see how you can't pick Rondo. Picking Westbrook over Rondo is laughable.

[Endorush]

That's right. Rondo is the least efficient starting PG in the NBA.

I am sitting here thinking, why the hell do people think that he's a top 3 PG in the NBA? Hell, some people are saying that he's the best PG in the NBA.

Yes, he gets a lot of assists and he's great at that. I am not denying it. With as many finishers and ELITE shooters as Boston, Rondo is absolutely a good fit for Boston. Pierce, KG, Allen are all getting slower but they are still some of the best shooters at their positions and will go great with anyone who is good at penetrating.

It's not like Rondo and the Celtics are invincible. They are very beatable and they often lose BECAUSE of Rondo.

For those who think that he's a top 3 PG in the NBA or even the best, do you honestly think that Chris Paul wouldn't be able to do the same in Boston? If CP3 was playing in Boston, Boston would completely destroy the league. Or Deron? Westbrook? Nash? Harris? Nelson? Hell, I even think Devin Harris would be better for the Celtics.

Rondo is a system player. He's blessed by elite shooters in Allen, Pierce, and KG. Not many PGs get those kinds of options on the wing to pass to.

Let's not forget that Rondo was terrible in the USA camp. I was worried that he would make the team because I knew he'd stink it up in the international game where shooting is a must. He would have hurt team USA.

Rondo is a top 10 PG in the NBA. He's not top 3, not top 5. He certainly isn't anywhere near the best. If he's the best PG in the NBA, this "golden age" for PGs is sad.

Rondo is the best point guard in the league.

[aggo]

#1 he doesnt need to score on that team
#2 if you've ever actually watched him play, he actually understands how to break down defenses without dribble penetration. And tbh, I think he's easily the best PG in the league doing this.
#3 he's not a system guy. You want him to run, he can run. You want him to play in halfcourt, he can do it. There are like 2 other PGs who can do that. And the two aren't named Rose

[NYK 455]

I like Rondo, but he got massively overrated, fast. He's not even on the same level as Paul, Nash, and Williams, and might not even be quite as good as Rose or Westbrook. Yet I've seen some declare him the best PG in the game.

Not a surprise I see you hating on him, just as in every other Rondo thread. Not as good as Westbrook?

If Rondo was on an uptempo team he would average 17 to 20 apg. Put Rondo on the Suns with more shooters he would be racking up assists like they were going out of style.

In truth playing with 4 Future HOF's doesn't mean he's actually playing with 4 HOF's.....he's really playing with 4 very good players with occasional great individual performances here and there.

Maybe there are better shooting PG's....better scoring PG's....and even better athletic PG's....but right now there is no better true PG than Rondo.

comedy gold

Pretty sure what he meant was that these future HOFs are only a shell of their former selves. Find some common sense and learn how to use it.

When the **** have I ever hated on Rondo?

[Die93]

Rondo can't tie cp3's shoelaces. How many assists you think he'd average on Boston?

That's right. Rondo is the least efficient starting PG in the NBA.

I am sitting here thinking, why the hell do people think that he's a top 3 PG in the NBA? Hell, some people are saying that he's the best PG in the NBA.

Yes, he gets a lot of assists and he's great at that. I am not denying it. With as many finishers and ELITE shooters as Boston, Rondo is absolutely a good fit for Boston. Pierce, KG, Allen are all getting slower but they are still some of the best shooters at their positions and will go great with anyone who is good at penetrating.

It's not like Rondo and the Celtics are invincible. They are very beatable and they often lose BECAUSE of Rondo.

For those who think that he's a top 3 PG in the NBA or even the best, do you honestly think that Chris Paul wouldn't be able to do the same in Boston? If CP3 was playing in Boston, Boston would completely destroy the league. Or Deron? Westbrook? Nash? Harris? Nelson? Hell, I even think Devin Harris would be better for the Celtics.

Rondo is a system player. He's blessed by elite shooters in Allen, Pierce, and KG. Not many PGs get those kinds of options on the wing to pass to.

Let's not forget that Rondo was terrible in the USA camp. I was worried that he would make the team because I knew he'd stink it up in the international game where shooting is a must. He would have hurt team USA.

Rondo is a top 10 PG in the NBA. He's not top 3, not top 5. He certainly isn't anywhere near the best. If he's the best PG in the NBA, this "golden age" for PGs is sad.

Rondo is the best point guard in the league.

[RoyceDa59]

1. Paul

2. Willians
3. Nash

4. Rose
5. Westbrook
6. Rondo