How can you be a top 3 PG with a .480 TS%

[bobbyc]

If Rondo is a top 3 point guard in the league why have they only won one championship. You have three hall of famers and then you have another hall of fame caliber player if you consider rondo to be just as good as paul and williams. So, you have a top 5 player in the league for each position on the Celtics except for Perkins who is a real good center plus a top 5 bench in the league. If Rondo was as good as you say he is they would be dominating the nba every year and the Lakers would not even come close to beating them. But, fortunately for the Lakers Rondo is not on the same level as Paul and Williams.

You are overestimating how good rondo is. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Steve Nash are on a whole other level. They are stars who turn teams with mediocre talent into good playoff teams. If you took Rondo off the Celtics they would still be one of the best teams in the east.

Rondo has glaring weaknesses that some teams take advantage of. Namely his shooting including free throws and his ability to become a non factor late in games, a time when stars usually take over. They shouldn't be overlooked. He is definitely overrated.

[Patterns]

If Rondo is a top 3 point guard in the league why have they only won one championship. You have three hall of famers and then you have another hall of fame caliber player if you consider rondo to be just as good as paul and williams. So, you have a top 5 player in the league for each position on the Celtics except for Perkins who is a real good center plus a top 5 bench in the league. If Rondo was as good as you say he is they would be dominating the nba every year and the Lakers would not even come close to beating them. But, fortunately for the Lakers Rondo is not on the same level as Paul and Williams.

You are overestimating how good rondo is. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Steve Nash are on a whole other level. They are stars who turn teams with mediocre talent into good playoff teams. If you took Rondo off the Celtics they would still be one of the best teams in the east.

Rondo has glaring weaknesses that some teams take advantage of. Namely his shooting including free throws and his ability to become a non factor late in games, a time when stars usually take over. They shouldn't be overlooked. He is definitely overrated.

Took the words out of my mouth. Seriously. You are absolutely spot on.

If Rondo was really a top 3 PG, the Celtics would be the greatest team ever. EVER.

Thankfully, he's not a top 3 PG or a top 5 PG which is why they are still considered behind the Lakers and the Heat.

I can't image someone like Chris Paul or Deron on the Celtics. It'd be unfair to everyone.

[Barstool Blues]

I'm a Celtics fan but I find Rondo overrated myself. As the OP stated he has it easy with who he has to pass to...and with so many options in the Celtics scheme he always has someone to pass to. It's also almost impossible to not average 10apg if you are a good passer with how much he handles the ball. Frankly I think he has a tendency to over dribble looking for the perfect pass and run out the shot clock...

[Doctor MJ]

because many of those made-up stats are just stats. and stats are just scientific lies.

Good lord. It's so sad to me when people dismiss huge aspects of human knowledge without even making a basic effort to understand them.

[Storm Surge]

In the games that I have seen Rondo play at least 5 of his assists are due to Ray Allen coming off of screens in a designed play. His assists are really inflated.

[rsavaj]

because many of those made-up stats are just stats. and stats are just scientific lies.

Good lord. It's so sad to me when people dismiss huge aspects of human knowledge without even making a basic effort to understand them.

EVIL-UTION!

[Doctor MJ]

Did you just say that Derrick Rose can't get to the rim?

Y'know I did, and it wasn't really a typo, but it's not quite what I meant.

Obviously Rose is a tremendous athlete - but the dude is not somebody putting his head down and forcing fouls to prevent easy scores.

[bdawg]

umm.... can i make a case in which rondo makes all of these future hall of famers still playing at all star level. at times, when pierce goes iso, allen goes iso or garnett low post, the C's sucks, but Rondo's playmaking ability helps these old hall of famers still perform at high level???

[Mamba Venom]

Well, I personally have him anywhere from 3-5... behind Paul and Williams and right there with Rose and Nash

Its hard not to get over excited watching him.

I'd pick Williams to my franchise over the other guys. Paul is perhaps more talented but in this era its hard to win it all with a PG as the best player. I think Williams can run a team better and if Williams were on the Celtics, the Celtics would be unstoppable baring injuries. Rondo outplays him when you talk just about offensive stats and steals, but Williams doesn't gamble as much and is clutch.

[Slax]

If Rondo is a top 3 point guard in the league why have they only won one championship. You have three hall of famers and then you have another hall of fame caliber player if you consider rondo to be just as good as paul and williams. So, you have a top 5 player in the league for each position on the Celtics except for Perkins who is a real good center plus a top 5 bench in the league. If Rondo was as good as you say he is they would be dominating the nba every year and the Lakers would not even come close to beating them.

Regardless of where you rank Rondo relative to other point guards in the league, I would argue that since Garnett's injury, the best two players on the court when the Celtics and Lakers play have been Kobe and Pau. The only reason the Celtics were competitive with the Lakers last year is that they had so many talented players that they could compete against a team featuring the two best players on the court. Having a "top 5 player" at four positions isn't especially out of the ordinary for a franchise that makes the finals two times in in the two years it's fully healthy. Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, and Joe Johnson were each probably among the top five players at their respective positions and they got stomped by the Spurs in the playoffs. I am receptive to arguments that various players such as Rose and Westbrook and Nash are currently better than Rondo, but clearly the impacts of Allen, Pierce, and Garnett at their current ages being vastly overrated in this thread.

[nitric0]

Rondo has quickly become one of the most overrated players in the league. People taking him over DWill and CP3? SMH

[saritasbora]

I'll take a Rondo getting everyone involved 12+ast every game over a Rose scoring 30 and getting 5 dimes. I think their teammates would tell you the same thing

lol Rose is averaging 9 ast not 5

[Slax]

Rondo has quickly become one of the most overrated players in the league. People taking him over DWill and CP3? SMH

As far as I can tell, barely anyone in this thread said they'd take him over DWill and CP3. Hence the thread being about him not being "top 3", as opposed to him not being number one. Feel free to argue he's not top 3, as the OP did, but there's no reason to make a straw man out of it.

[eloper]

The only time Rondo played with 3 guys who were top 5 at their position was 2008...when they won the championship. 2009 Allen/KG were not top 5 guys. 2010 Allen/KG were not top 5 guys. 2011 Allen/KG are not top 5 guys. This Celtics team is more like the Pistons of a few years back then the star powered Lakers. People still look at KG/Allen as these superstar hall of fame players, but they're far past their prime, they just aren't the same guys at this stage of their careers (especially KG offensively).

[Doctor MJ]

If Rondo is a top 3 point guard in the league why have they only won one championship. You have three hall of famers and then you have another hall of fame caliber player if you consider rondo to be just as good as paul and williams. So, you have a top 5 player in the league for each position on the Celtics except for Perkins who is a real good center plus a top 5 bench in the league. If Rondo was as good as you say he is they would be dominating the nba every year and the Lakers would not even come close to beating them. But, fortunately for the Lakers Rondo is not on the same level as Paul and Williams.

You are overestimating how good rondo is. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Steve Nash are on a whole other level. They are stars who turn teams with mediocre talent into good playoff teams. If you took Rondo off the Celtics they would still be one of the best teams in the east.

Rondo has glaring weaknesses that some teams take advantage of. Namely his shooting including free throws and his ability to become a non factor late in games, a time when stars usually take over. They shouldn't be overlooked. He is definitely overrated.

Wait a minute here.

You DON'T believe Rondo is anywhere near Top 3 at PG, but DO believe that Pierce, Allen, and Garnett are all Top 5 at their position?

k, let me just solve the conundrum for you right now: Your perception of how good the Old 3 are right now is pretty far off from anyone who thinks Rondo is an elite point guard.

There's also the matter that you're asking how the Celtics have only one title if Rondo's so good...but we're talking about Rondo right NOW, and everyone saying Rondo's now elite is not saying he's been elite for years. Dude's APG is up by over 5 this year, I don't understand why you would think it would make sense to bring up team "underachievement" from before that leap forward in to damn him.

[eloper]

^nah man, don't you see, Rondo has ALWAYS been this good, and Pierce/Allen/KG/Shaq are still the same players they were in 2000!!!!!!!!

If Larry Bird actually did walk through that door and sign with the Celtics today I'm sure everyone would say Rondo's stats are inflated by playing with yet another HOFer.

[Slax]

Well, you could probably place Garnett and Pierce at top 5 at their position so far this year. Not sure about Allen, but he's probably borderline. Sixth or so? I don't know, I'd need to think on it. Either way, considering he's 35, he's undoubtedly playing really well for his age.

[Hemingway]

edited for name calling. Public Warning.

CD

[HB2]

I'll just say out loud what 3/4 of the posters in this thread are thinking - "I could average 12 assists on that team"

[eloper]

Well, you could probably place Garnett and Pierce at top 5 at their position so far this year. Not sure about Allen, but he's probably borderline. Sixth or so? I don't know, I'd need to think on it. Either way, considering he's 35, he's undoubtedly playing really well for his age.

KG's impact at this point is on the defensive end though. Offensively he's become what JO used to be, a mid range jump shooting big man that can't really create for himself anymore.

Ranking players is sort of arbitrary to begin with. Ray Allen is a super efficient scorer who doesn't really do much else at this point. Is that more valuable than what, say, Joe Johnson brings to the table? Vince Carter? Monta Ellis? Kevin Martin is basically a better version of Allen at this point...It all depends on what you're looking for. Someone who values volume isn't going to rank Allen much better than an average starting SG at this point.

Again, I think the Celtics are built in a way that really highlights the strengths of most of their players. If KG were still in Minnesota/not surrounded by that much talent I think a lot of people would be talking about how he isn't top 5 anymore. If Allen were still in Seattle (er...) a lot of people would probably be complaining about how he can't handle that large of a scoring load on his own anymore unlike most "elite" sg's.