Statistically D-Rose is the second best player in the NBA

[Soap345]

hahah I love people criticizing these stats by pointing out his per and ts%.

[Raps in 4]

He is an amazing talent, and Chicago will be a tough team once healthy.

Also, I had no idea Gasol had a PER of 30+ this season. To think people actually used to compare him to guys like Bosh and Amare before.

[RichardsRival3]

LOL sure because PER and TS% are perfect stats to measure efficiency. Do you even know what all PER entails?

Rose is shooting .480 on high volume of shots with a decent clip of 3s @ .34 if that is called INEFFICIENT then put down whatever you are smoking in OKC and get some fresh air.

Yes, that is called inefficient when you're shooting 76% from the line and turning the ball over 4 times a game. There is more to the game than shooting percentages. All you have proved is that rose is shooting well from the floor this year.

Right well when you want to argue basketball without a preordained agenda then get back to me.

But calling a top 5 scorer and top 10 assists guy who is a guard shooting .480 inefficient is either ignorant or unnecessarily biased .....you pick.

[fallacy]

Yes, that is called inefficient when you're shooting 76% from the line and turning the ball over 4 times a game. There is more to the game than shooting percentages. All you have proved is that rose is shooting well from the floor this year.

Right well when you want to argue basketball without a preordained agenda then get back to me.

But calling a top 5 scorer and top 10 assists guy who is a guard shooting .480 inefficient is either ignorant or unnecessarily biased .....you pick.

I have two efficiency stats to back me up. These stats are designed to tell you have efficient one player is, hell PER is player EFFICIENCY rating.

Ignoring these stats that are designed for the one thing we are arguing is ignorant

[RichardsRival3]

Yes, that is called inefficient when you're shooting 76% from the line and turning the ball over 4 times a game. There is more to the game than shooting percentages. All you have proved is that rose is shooting well from the floor this year.

Right well when you want to argue basketball without a preordained agenda then get back to me.

But calling a top 5 scorer and top 10 assists guy who is a guard shooting .480 inefficient is either ignorant or unnecessarily biased .....you pick.

I have two efficiency stats to back me up. These stats are designed to tell you have efficient one player is, hell PER is player EFFICIENCY rating.

Ignoring these stats that are designed for the one thing we are arguing is ignorant[/quote]

You want me to tell you why advanced stats aren't the be all end all of rating a players efficiency?
You argued that Rose's 4 TOs per game are a reason for being inefficient. Looking at TO% guess who has a high TO% Rose or Westbrook? Thats right your boy Westbrook does. However, I am not going to argue that Westbrook is inefficient. You can cherry pick stats to make someone look good or bad. Advanced statistics are just an adjunct to what the basic #s are telling you.

[NO-KG-AI]

Clear troll here. He's trying to stir up **** so you guys will say things like "bulls fans are such homers" and point to threads like this.

[fallacy]

You want me to tell you why advanced stats aren't the be all end all of rating a players efficiency?
You argued that Rose's 4 TOs per game are a reason for being inefficient. Looking at TO% guess who has a high TO% Rose or Westbrook? Thats right your boy Westbrook does.

By .3%, yes. Westbrook also goes to the line 3.5 time more a game and shoots 92% from the line (16% better)

I can bring out more advanced stats if you really want.

D rose - 110 OffRtg, .8 Offensive Win Shares
Westbrook - 116 OffRtg, 1.4 Offensive Win Shares

Anyways, i have proved all that i need to. If you still believe that Rose is "incredibly effecient" you can. I have proved to you otherwise and any more arguing on my part is redundant and long as you are ignorant to these stats that are here for this reason.

[RichardsRival3]

You want me to tell you why advanced stats aren't the be all end all of rating a players efficiency?
You argued that Rose's 4 TOs per game are a reason for being inefficient. Looking at TO% guess who has a high TO% Rose or Westbrook? Thats right your boy Westbrook does.

By .3%, yes. Westbrook also goes to the line 3.5 time more a game and shoots 92% from the line (16% better)

I can bring out more advanced stats if you really want.

D rose - 110 OffRtg, .8 Offensive Win Shares
Westbrook - 116 OffRtg, 1.4 Offensive Win Shares

I guess you will never learn. Those stats don't mean crap. You have to see the players in the larger context.

[RichardsRival3]

When it comes to PER Rose>Durant ergo Rose is more efficient than Durant?

[Kayjay]

nba eff is basically horse ass

if i want a fair statistical picture of a player, i check 82games lineups, APM, SPM, hoopdata shot locations and fta, the various rate stats (ts%, reb%, ast% . . . blk% ) or PER if it's offhand, then wins

[Slax]

Alonzo Gee leads all guards in blocks per 48 minutes, so I'll take him over Rose.

[BROWN]

JINXED

[darth_federer]

You want me to tell you why advanced stats aren't the be all end all of rating a players efficiency?
You argued that Rose's 4 TOs per game are a reason for being inefficient. Looking at TO% guess who has a high TO% Rose or Westbrook? Thats right your boy Westbrook does.

By .3%, yes. Westbrook also goes to the line 3.5 time more a game and shoots 92% from the line (16% better)

I can bring out more advanced stats if you really want.

D rose - 110 OffRtg, .8 Offensive Win Shares
Westbrook - 116 OffRtg, 1.4 Offensive Win Shares

I guess you will never learn. Those stats don't mean crap. You have to see the players in the larger context.

They dont mean crap if they dont agree with them sure, but dismissing it outright? Come on, youre better than that.

[Clangus]

Fallacy, shame on you for turning this into a RW / Dr debate

[boogydown]

I'd put Rose in the top 25 now. He isn't #2.

[RichardsRival3]

By .3%, yes. Westbrook also goes to the line 3.5 time more a game and shoots 92% from the line (16% better)

I can bring out more advanced stats if you really want.

D rose - 110 OffRtg, .8 Offensive Win Shares
Westbrook - 116 OffRtg, 1.4 Offensive Win Shares

I guess you will never learn. Those stats don't mean crap. You have to see the players in the larger context.

They dont mean crap if they dont agree with them sure, but dismissing it outright? Come on, youre better than that.

Lets flip it to the other side:
DRrg okay:
Rose: 107
Westbrook: 111

So all of a sudden can I claim Rose is a better defender than Westbrook?

come on man get real. People need to stop looking only at stats to draw conclusions.

fallacy is an OKC homer trying to push an agenda anybody with half a brain can see that.

[Slax]

By the way, has anyone thought to mention that Derrick Rose is SECOND TO LAST in the league in inverse points + assists + rebounds? And Danny Green is leading the league at INFINITY?

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

We're number 2 !

[nonemus]

Ortg is too focused on Team offense for it to be a reliable stat when comparing two individuals offensive impact. DUH.

[eloper]

You want me to tell you why advanced stats aren't the be all end all of rating a players efficiency?
You argued that Rose's 4 TOs per game are a reason for being inefficient. Looking at TO% guess who has a high TO% Rose or Westbrook? Thats right your boy Westbrook does.

By .3%, yes. Westbrook also goes to the line 3.5 time more a game and shoots 92% from the line (16% better)

I can bring out more advanced stats if you really want.

D rose - 110 OffRtg, .8 Offensive Win Shares
Westbrook - 116 OffRtg, 1.4 Offensive Win Shares

Anyways, i have proved all that i need to. If you still believe that Rose is "incredibly effecient" you can. I have proved to you otherwise and any more arguing on my part is redundant and long as you are ignorant to these stats that are here for this reason.

I love when people reference stats and don't fully grasp their meaning/value. This little Rose/Westbrook discussion makes me want to shoot myself. I was all ready to pull out oRtg and then you went ahead and did it for me....and entirely failed to realize that you just proved yourself wrong.

A 110 oRtg is well above average. Rose IS efficient offensively, just not as insanely efficient as Westbrook. This is coming from someone who is generally anti-Rose just because I hate all the Rondo/Rose debates. To call the stats Rose has put up this year "inefficient" is flat out wrong. In comparison to Westbrook sure, but 90% of the league is inefficient then.

player EFFICIENCY!!!! rating as you like to refer to it really isn't all that much about efficiency. PER is essentially the equivalent of taking oRtg X possessions used + some defensive stats sprinkled in. As you can see, possessions are a key ingredient to that formula, it's why someone like Antoine Walker could post a decent PER despite being incredibly INEFFICIENT. PER is a nice way of comparing players who use about the same number of possessions, other than that, it's wildly over referenced.