Game 13: LA Clippers (1-11) at Indiana (4-5)

[writerman]

I didn't think the last few years can get any worse. I was wrong!

We've gone through some bad times of ourt own...maybe just starting tosee the light at the end of the tunnel...your time will come too..too much young talent not to...

[Palma Dutch]

I'm not even... 1-12.

I deserve better.

[thanumba2clippersfan]

I watched most of the game and defense seems to be an issue. We have trouble guarding the 3s, we've let way too many teams shoot over 50% against us. It didn't help that we shot poorly tonight.

[BoomFizzle]

Terrible game. Maybe now people will understand why I was defending Kaman and Baron. You want young guys to get time and everyone has been praising their play but...... if they were better than the starters we wouldnt be 1-12.

The thing which bugs me the most is the horrible defense. They are young and are bound to make mistakes on offense but VDN is supposed to be a defensive coach. So where is the defence? Blake in particular needs to improve on defense. Jordon has already shown he is incapable of proper rotations.

Also people wanting to trade the vets and just play the young guys. All the constant losing isn't exactly positive for these guys development.

PS. Why is Kaman still out, I thought it was just a simple ankle sprain?

[Palma Dutch]

That's what I thought too! I guess not, huh? I really hope we aren't the Clippers of old and I really hope we'll get healthier. We need Baron and Kaman right now. We're sinking...

[thanumba2clippersfan]

Terrible game. Maybe now people will understand why I was defending Kaman and Baron. You want young guys to get time and everyone has been praising their play but...... if they were better than the starters we wouldnt be 1-12.

The thing which bugs me the most is the horrible defense. They are young and are bound to make mistakes on offense but VDN is supposed to be a defensive coach. So where is the defence? Blake in particular needs to improve on defense. Jordon has already shown he is incapable of proper rotations.

Also people wanting to trade the vets and just play the young guys. All the constant losing isn't exactly positive for these guys development.

PS. Why is Kaman still out, I thought it was just a simple ankle sprain?

That's a reason why I think the team is struggling on defense. We have a lot of young players and it takes time for rookies to really get adjusted on defense. Bledsoe and Aminu do make some nice plays on defense at times but it's not consistent. We just need Baron and Kaman back if we want to start winning more.

[mike3]

this is so painful..

i see how even though everyone is saying trade Kaman/Baron, we need them back

[Det the Threat]

Terrible game. Maybe now people will understand why I was defending Kaman and Baron. You want young guys to get time and everyone has been praising their play but...... if they were better than the starters we wouldnt be 1-12.

The thing which bugs me the most is the horrible defense. They are young and are bound to make mistakes on offense but VDN is supposed to be a defensive coach. So where is the defence? Blake in particular needs to improve on defense. Jordon has already shown he is incapable of proper rotations.

Also people wanting to trade the vets and just play the young guys. All the constant losing isn't exactly positive for these guys development.

PS. Why is Kaman still out, I thought it was just a simple ankle sprain?

Kaman yes, Baron i'm not sure of.

Some folks always cry about Kaman's defense, but if you watch those other bigs you'll recognize very easily that he ain't as bad as some folks are trying to make him.
He was said to be out for about 2 - 3 weeks imediatly after he injured his ankle, which is why he's still out.

BTW: Baron might be usefull to get the offense going, but he still isn't great at defense(because he doesn't really wants to be) and would overdrible on offense, meaning that EJ wouldn't be as good as he's right now.

[BoomFizzle]

Terrible game. Maybe now people will understand why I was defending Kaman and Baron. You want young guys to get time and everyone has been praising their play but...... if they were better than the starters we wouldnt be 1-12.

The thing which bugs me the most is the horrible defense. They are young and are bound to make mistakes on offense but VDN is supposed to be a defensive coach. So where is the defence? Blake in particular needs to improve on defense. Jordon has already shown he is incapable of proper rotations.

Also people wanting to trade the vets and just play the young guys. All the constant losing isn't exactly positive for these guys development.

PS. Why is Kaman still out, I thought it was just a simple ankle sprain?

Kaman yes, Baron i'm not sure of.

Some folks always cry about Kaman's defense, but if you watch those other bigs you'll recognize very easily that he ain't as bad as some folks are trying to make him.
He was said to be out for about 2 - 3 weeks imediatly after he injured his ankle, which is why he's still out.

BTW: Baron might be usefull to get the offense going, but he still isn't great at defense(because he doesn't really wants to be) and would overdrible on offense, meaning that EJ wouldn't be as good as he's right now.

I don't really notice Baron pounding the ball into the ground unless the play isn't getting set up correctly. I never thought of that being the problem. Gordon had plenty opportunities last year to step up and be more aggressive. A lot of the time Baron would give him the ball a few possessions in a row and he wouldn't look to do the things he is doing this year. Hopefully when Baron comes back he remains aggressive.

The main problem I found for Gordon last year was Kaman isos. Gordon can't slash if the paint is clogged up and he became disinterested.

Baron 15 and 8 at 24% USG on 50% TS
Kaman 18.5 and 1.5 at 27% USG on 52 %TS
Gordon 17 and 3 at 21.5% USG on 57% TS

I love advanced stats so decided to just post some USG is supposed to be a measure of the percentage of plays run through that player when on court. So Kaman led the way last year at 27%. Also supriningly Kaman doesn't score all that more efficiently than Baron and gives out way less assists. Gordon is by far the most efficient scorer at 57% true shooting but doesn't offer as much play making.

If you add up pts and assists into points Baron contributes 31, Gordon 21, Kaman 21.5. So although Baron is an inefficient scorer, he still contributes a lot when he has the ball in terms of either dishing for an assist or scoring. Kaman on the other hand is a lot more inefficient with the ball. Therefore I would prefer to see Gordon get ~27% (currently 30%) and Kaman reduce his the most.

Of course this is flawed because it doesn't take into account hockey assists and breaking down the defense.

[mattfish]

^ I remember stats last season showing that Baron was one of the most effective players in the NBA at passing the ball to players and setting them up in a position to score.

I was thinking about switching to U-Verse next month so I could get Prime Ticket down here in SD, but now i'm highly reconsidering it

[Det the Threat]

I don't really notice Baron pounding the ball into the ground unless the play isn't getting set up correctly. I never thought of that being the problem. Gordon had plenty opportunities last year to step up and be more aggressive. A lot of the time Baron would give him the ball a few possessions in a row and he wouldn't look to do the things he is doing this year. Hopefully when Baron comes back he remains aggressive..

Of course EJ needs to be more aggressive and vocal, no matter who he's playing with, but Baron's just a ball dominant pg that I don't really see working with Gordon.

EJ's putting up those numbers because he's got the ball in his hands a lot, with Bledsoe passing it real quick and collecting his assists on fast breaks or while swinging it to the open shooter.

It's also pretty easy to defend with Baron around, because his man can stay off of him as he can't hit a long range jumper to save his life.

That's why Bledsoe or a guy that can stroke it from deep are the best kind of point guards to pair with Gordon.

The main problem I found for Gordon last year was Kaman isos. Gordon can't slash if the paint is clogged up and he became disinterested.

Baron 15 and 8 at 24% USG on 50% TS
Kaman 18.5 and 1.5 at 27% USG on 52 %TS
Gordon 17 and 3 at 21.5% USG on 57% TS

I love advanced stats so decided to just post some USG is supposed to be a measure of the percentage of plays run through that player when on court. So Kaman led the way last year at 27%. Also supriningly Kaman doesn't score all that more efficiently than Baron and gives out way less assists. Gordon is by far the most efficient scorer at 57% true shooting but doesn't offer as much play making.

If you add up pts and assists into points Baron contributes 31, Gordon 21, Kaman 21.5. So although Baron is an inefficient scorer, he still contributes a lot when he has the ball in terms of either dishing for an assist or scoring. Kaman on the other hand is a lot more inefficient with the ball. Therefore I would prefer to see Gordon get ~27% (currently 30%) and Kaman reduce his the most.

Of course this is flawed because it doesn't take into account hockey assists and breaking down the defense.

Yes, those Kaman Isos are tough, but not just for Gordon.
If Chris was a good passer you could let guys cut to the rim but I'm not sure Kaman would find them.

As for Baron...
...he still shots it at a crappy percentage and his attitude(not to mention that contract) is just something I don't like to have around our team.

[BoomFizzle]

Yeah Baron needs to improve his shooting but it wasnt as bad last year. I mean he was more efficient than Westbrook and Stuckey, who I don't see getting the same heat for it.

Regardless, all the debating is mute because Baron wasnt playing the same this year. If he could even add that set 3pt shot Kidd developed he would be so much better. Best thing to do is just wait and see if the team improves when he gets back. If things continue obviously try to deal away the vets.

[illastrate]

Sure, Baron is still one of the best passers in the league, but he won't help us win games. There is nothing positive about having him back. Also, EJ is not as effective with Baron at the helm.

Kaman, on the other hand, will help because we desperately need low post scoring, rebounding, defense. Let the kids play, it's the only thing we have to look forward to.