Time for the big fat I told you so?

[enetric]

Is it time for my big fat I told you so post?

Is it clear now with Melo talks and with today's Hornets deal brewing why I was dead set against the Troy Murphy trade?

Forget the fact that he hasn't been used at this stage. Forget injury...or Avery's lineup choices. That is secondary.


For those of you that didn't get it...of course several of those on that side of the argument have since been banned...but for those still around, don't you see it?

Denver never said OK to any deal we offered. They are waiting until December 15th at the earliest. Melo may not sign off anyway...but my point then and now is...Troy gave us LESS of what they want. Pure cap space was more valuable for them. And not having it forces us to give them more assets. More assets out make it less attractive for Melo to say yes. It was and still is that simple. And all those absurd arguments about Brook Lopez needing to get to 30 wins instead of 15-20 was worth Cap space and a prospect...and the potential of having to overpay for a much bigger deal. Time to fess up for those of you that argued for the Troy trade. It was a cap stupid move.

And then we get to the Hornets. They don't want to deal Paul. Paul wants out. They are working the phone lines more than anyone else according to Wojo to get Paul help. But in the mean time..even winning Paul isn't happy and they are losing money by the boat load. So...the trade they are making is to shed payroll. Stars LOVE IT when you shed cash like that don't they?

So? What if we had the cap space to offer still. And we could take Okafor instead of Troy off their hands with Paul say December 15th until the deadline. Do they start considering it with enough picks and prospects? And for me? I can swallow Favors and Devin our for a deal that gets me Paul under a reasonable contract with Okafor...rather than give that up for Melo and 22mil per year. Its not even close.

The Nets muffed this big time. And again...that is before I even deal with Troy's role on the team.

[vincecarter4pres]

The trade the Hornets made today sheds no payroll overall, it adds...

It cuts a bunch of money this year, but adds a bunch over the next two years.

Not arguing with anything, just wanted to point that out.

I do realize this gets them under the tax though.

Don't like this move for NOH, wastes two trade assets and cuts into caproom next offseason, so i understand what you're saying though.

And where are you getting that Chris Paul is still unhappy?

[Guy Smiley]

I told you guys enetric is one of the humblest, mild mannered, bashful and friendly posters here on the Nets boards. You wouldn't believe me but I told you so.

Anyway, since the Raptor deals looks to be almost finalized let me thank Bryan Colangelo for appeasing my appetite for scruffy looking bigs that launch 3's. Rebounds and defensive stops may be few but the 3 point streak will never end in Raptorland.

Troy Murphy was a nice coop for you guys as I continue to salivate at the thought of his long range missiles twinkling the twine but to be honest he rebounds a little too much for my liking. I would still take him though as I'm really sick and tired of a grinder like Reggie Evans. Why does the guy try so hard? I mean seriously it's as though he has a passion for grabbing the ball rather than letting the ball come to him.

Anyway, I have nothing of value to add.

[tamarslayer]

1. Drop the Courtney Lee "prospect" talk and never bring it up again. Limited upside role players who are 25 years old don't have much worth around the league.

2. The Hornets are doing everything they can to appease Paul. He's not being traded this year, especially when the Hornets are off to one of their best starts ALL-TIME. They're 10-1 for crying out loud. Take that Chris Paul pipe dream and flush it down the drain.

3. When Carmelo Anthony is not traded this year I want you to make a three word post saying "I was wrong".

[demens]

I want you to make a three word post saying "I was wrong".

Good luck getting that out of this ****.

[NyCeEvO]

Is it time for my big fat I told you so post?

Is it clear now with Melo talks and with today's Hornets deal brewing why I was dead set against the Troy Murphy trade?

Forget the fact that he hasn't been used at this stage. Forget injury...or Avery's lineup choices. That is secondary.


For those of you that didn't get it...of course several of those on that side of the argument have since been banned...but for those still around, don't you see it?

Denver never said OK to any deal we offered. They are waiting until December 15th at the earliest. Melo may not sign off anyway...but my point then and now is...Troy gave us LESS of what they want. Pure cap space was more valuable for them. And not having it forces us to give them more assets. More assets out make it less attractive for Melo to say yes. It was and still is that simple. And all those absurd arguments about Brook Lopez needing to get to 30 wins instead of 15-20 was worth Cap space and a prospect...and the potential of having to overpay for a much bigger deal. Time to fess up for those of you that argued for the Troy trade. It was a cap stupid move.

And then we get to the Hornets. They don't want to deal Paul. Paul wants out. They are working the phone lines more than anyone else according to Wojo to get Paul help. But in the mean time..even winning Paul isn't happy and they are losing money by the boat load. So...the trade they are making is to shed payroll. Stars LOVE IT when you shed cash like that don't they?

So? What if we had the cap space to offer still. And we could take Okafor instead of Troy off their hands with Paul say December 15th until the deadline. Do they start considering it with enough picks and prospects? And for me? I can swallow Favors and Devin our for a deal that gets me Paul under a reasonable contract with Okafor...rather than give that up for Melo and 22mil per year. Its not even close.

The Nets muffed this big time. And again...that is before I even deal with Troy's role on the team.

E, give yourself two Enetric gold stars!!!

[Star-Lord]

About a month too early...

[enetric]

I want you to make a three word post saying "I was wrong".

Good luck getting that out of this ****.

Said the guy who has been wrong about everything he has ever said on this site and hasnt ONCE admitted it. Question...are you trying to get banned for life? This post might do it. Keep it coming. Getting rid of you would be like ditching a hemorrhoid for all mankind.

[enetric]

1. Drop the Courtney Lee "prospect" talk and never bring it up again. Limited upside role players who are 25 years old don't have much worth around the league.

2. The Hornets are doing everything they can to appease Paul. He's not being traded this year, especially when the Hornets are off to one of their best starts ALL-TIME. They're 10-1 for crying out loud. Take that Chris Paul pipe dream and flush it down the drain.

3. When Carmelo Anthony is not traded this year I want you to make a three word post saying "I was wrong".

Wow,,,so which former incarnation of a past misfit is this? Soup? Mikhail..or whatever previous username?

Lee is a prospect. He is and was an asset. Its not about getting anything massive for him...its about...having him plus 15 mil in tradeable cap space were both better pieces to a bigger move than Troy gone no where.

Paul. I dont expect him to be traded either. My point was...they are in damage mode. They are looking to shed now. Paul from what is being said around town...is biding his time. Record is not the thing that is going to say...wow glad to be here. Their GM is apparently calling around to others more than anyone else out there. Their goal is to get the next star now to convince him to stay long term. The point was...if they fail to do so....and behind closed doors...they continue to hemmorage cash...being able to send them that pure cap space would have been at the very least enticing. Do I expect him to be moved? No. But that wasnt the point. The point was...we slammed the door hard with a shrt sighted iditiotic trade that did not respect the value of cap space and prospects.

The leads to Melo. Our offer to Denver was widely believed to be the best offer asset wise they received. Now, I have long said...Melo goes no where Melo doenst want to go. That extension is why they are shopping...and why offers arent better. Salary matching and asset matching is costly for him. You want to know you have him long term.

But...what did Denver do? Who did they call before Melo shot it down completely? They called Sac, Minny, and Cavs. Teams that could save them CASH. The cash we had ON TOP of assets before pissing it away on Troy. It was foolish.

Denver was fine jut letting us sit there and not taking the offer. Why? Because it didnt give them the thing they wanted most. SAVING MONEY. And that is where things sit for Denver...and for the Hornets. What can you do for my pocket NOW.

When you can do less...you have to give more in assets. Had we not made that deal....And we had 15mil in cash savings, TWill, Lee, Two firsts....that is actually more enticing the assets of Devin and Favors for Denver. And...had we NOT done that Troy deal...the Nets are more enticing when he can see Devin, Favors and Brook STILL HERE.

It all connects. It was an absurd deal.

Next...Melo being traded or not has absolutely no bearing at all on why we shouldnt have done the Troy deal. My point was...we were more enticing for them to say Yes. More enticing for Melo to say yes...had we NOT made that deal. So there is no apology necessary. Hopefully this helps clear things up.

[enetric]

I told you guys enetric is one of the humblest, mild mannered, bashful and friendly posters here on the Nets boards. You wouldn't believe me but I told you so.

Anyway, since the Raptor deals looks to be almost finalized let me thank Bryan Colangelo for appeasing my appetite for scruffy looking bigs that launch 3's. Rebounds and defensive stops may be few but the 3 point streak will never end in Raptorland.

Troy Murphy was a nice coop for you guys as I continue to salivate at the thought of his long range missiles twinkling the twine but to be honest he rebounds a little too much for my liking. I would still take him though as I'm really sick and tired of a grinder like Reggie Evans. Why does the guy try so hard? I mean seriously it's as though he has a passion for grabbing the ball rather than letting the ball come to him.

Anyway, I have nothing of value to add.

Hey there! I was here all off season...and I was asking for my favorite Mr. Sarcasm. How are you?

[enetric]

About a month too early...

That's potenially fair. But...my point was really about...

isnt it obvious that the Troy deal has made it harder not easier for us to make bigger and better moves? Even if they goet done..or never get done. It seems clear....we would be a more enticing trade partner who could keep our better players in tact...but adding that pure hige cap space we had to picks and lower prospects like Lee, Twill, James, etc.

Troy was an impulsive trade. And the fact that we are now looking to dump him everywhere 4 weeks into the season should help sum it up.

[vincecarter4pres]

The Troy Murphy trade was was silly dumb, no doubt about that ****.

It still make me die a little inside everytime I see his stupid face on television in an Armani suit mockingly applaud a Nets play from the end of the bench.

But, at the rate we're going we'll win about 23 games this season, so there's still hope!

[enetric]

Yeah!

Look..I like Troy. Always have. It was a cap mistake. BAd timing. ANd nothing irks mne more than fans who cant see past a season at a time. The NBA is ALL about building it right. Y3es you have to take certain chances. No you cant sit and wiat forver...but this rebuilding effort was hardly forver.

Troy at this point in his career made no sense for the needs of a team that won 12 last year. Just a bad move.

As for Paul...Wojo has had some stuff to say...and I have read other things. NO has more leverage than Denver with an extra season. Paul is being smart. Nothing more. If NO can land a star for the future I think that could keep him here long term.

[vincecarter4pres]

Don't worry, Kyrie Irving will make you forget about Chris Paul in a couple seasons.

[NyCeEvO]

Don't worry, Kyrie Irving will make you forget about Chris Paul in a couple seasons.

Well, no one will forget Chris Paul but since we're probably lottery bound again, a low 20 win season sounds good enough to get a us a top 4. Barnes or Irving anyone?

[Childs2Dudley]

What is Murphy's status? Is he ever going to play for the Nets? Is he not playing due to injury or due to the coach benching him?

He's on my fantasy team and this has been absolute killer to my team.

[Guy Smiley]

Hey there! I was here all off season...and I was asking for my favorite Mr. Sarcasm. How are you?

Howdy, good to see you have returned. Life is tough as a Raptors fan but we continue to press on. I have laid low on all boards but I lurk every now and then.

[old rem]

The trade the Hornets made today sheds no payroll overall, it adds...

It cuts a bunch of money this year, but adds a bunch over the next two years.

Not arguing with anything, just wanted to point that out.

I do realize this gets them under the tax though.

Don't like this move for NOH, wastes two trade assets and cuts into caproom next offseason, so i understand what you're saying though.

And where are you getting that Chris Paul is still unhappy?

Mind readers ? I don't REALLY know what Paul or Melo are thinking. There's some clues Melo is thinking KNICKS. There's some clues Melo has NO interest in signing NOW,or at a dime less than full max.
This summer he can pick the future of his choice. If by then the Nets look like the BEST move...that sure helps. Chris Paul will be a FA a year later. I definitely see a deja vu when it comes to Melo,Paul.

This time last year the Raps,Cavs,Suns had a smug confidence they either keep[ their star or get the moon and stars for him. They got...nuthin. Real world...I'm sure Denver is not getting the "offers" some think they are getting...and until Melo decides to co-operate,it's a moot point.

One might wonder how much $ is too much for a player who is mostly a volume scorer.

[SpeedyG]

Regardless of whether Melo or Paul are traded (or whoever other star player), the simple point that Enetric, myself, and a few others were trying to make was....the Troy Murphy signing was such a short-sighted move that did not need to be made. It takes away our flexibility for deals in-season, and doesn't really affect our cap situation in the future either.

The fact he's been hurt and a non-factor has only compounded on that. And as bad as Lee has played sometimes last year...Lee >>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Graham/Quinton Ross.

But hey, still on track to rebuild the right way (unless Knight screws it all up).

[tamarslayer]

But the trade Troy Murphy did need to be made because on paper you couldn't go into the season with Humphries and Favors at power forward and expect to win more than 15-17 games.

Now before someone who's living in a vacuum brings up how great it would be to win 15-17 games so the Nets get a high draft pick, the fact of the matter is that not only is winning that few games bad for business but historically speaking top tier free agents don't go to bottom-dwelling teams.

Furthermore while you can trade for star players, the trend recently has been for top tier players to nix deals where they go to bottom-dwelling teams by threatening not to sign an extension, etc.

Multiple losing seasons develop a bad reputation for your team which compounds with each successive failure by the organization. The Nets needed to right the ship, and prove that last year was an outlier.

If you don't have an environment people want to be a part of you're not going to retain / attract talent.

To build an environment that attracts talent in the NBA, it's not rocket science, you simply have to prove that you can win games.

And to that extent Troy Murphy should be helping the Nets achieve that goal. To date he has not. But just like with the strong play of Humphries and Favors, no one could have predicted that Murphy would go down with a back injury that would limit him to the extent he has been limited this season.

The Troy Murphy trade hasn't panned out but it was a perfectly logical move when it was made.

This isn't to say it's illogical to wish the Nets kept the cap space, as their is a valid argument which says they should have. But it is to say that just like with the argument I outlined above it's not the end-all-be-all-holier-than-thou-I-am-right answer.

Trade proposals have finite lives, Billy King saw one that appealed to him and he jumped on it. There is absolutely no guarantee that a better offer would have arose during the season.

In general the number of teams who go into each year with sizable room under the cap and end up with nothing far exceeds the number of teams that go into the season with cap space and come out of the season with something of significant worth as a result of that added flexibility.