GT Wizards vs Griz Friday 11/19/10

[nate33]

N1 had a bad shooting night but the hustle play to
save the ball and the attempted dunk helped a lot.

AT had another poor game, but didn't let Gay
go off either.

And Young may have only ended up with one rebound, but I thought he battled for quite a few more and got his hand on the ball so that others could pick it up. Overall, he played a good game, except for the fact that his shots didn't actually go into the basket.

Thornton was a bit Butleresque on offense with his jab steps, but I'm glad you pointed out the defensive effort. Gay was averaging 25 points per game prior to this one. He had 11 against Thornton.

[Rafael122]

Gil is still working himself into shape so I wouldn't be surprised if he drives to the basket more in January and February. He's still trying to get his legs under him.

[Hoopalotta]

That's not what I wrote, do you want Kirk Hinrich as our back-up PG long-term? Really?

What you wrote was:

We really need another Gil-type player with ball-handling skilz to back-up wall.

OK, so what does this mean other than "We need another backup point guard"?

Backup point guard is literally the least of our worries. The absolute least pressing position. We have a franchise player who's going to run major minutes, the best second and third string point guards in the game, $32 million dollars committed to the position and a fourth string emergency player. Nothing is going to get done there. As of now, anyone we get is going to rot on the bench and, even long term, we're not going to find a young player who's happy to be here.

A total dead end.

[willbcocks]

Nick was 1-8 and accomplished one rebound and a steal in over 20 minutes. His highlight was a missed dunk.

If you think that was a good game, you've got lower standards than Dre after a night clubbing...

[closg00]

^^^Thinking long-term, Hinny is going to expire next year so either we re-sign him or we'll get another guy via the draft/FA who will be a candidate to take his minutes. Given KH's weaknesses I pointed-out earlier and the fact that Gilbert no-longer is who he was 5 years ago, it would be in the long-term interest of the team to eventually have someone who is capable of finishing and creating for the other guys IMO. Upgrading Hinny or reducing his minutes next year would be ideal.

[Rafael122]

It's too early to think about that stuff regarding Hinrich. He's going to be here for this year, but he's trade bait come next season. You don't extend him to a contract.

[nate33]

Nick was 1-8 and accomplished one rebound and a steal in over 20 minutes. His highlight was a missed dunk.

If you think that was a good game, you've got lower standards than Dre after a night clubbing...

Fair enough. It wasn't a good game. It was a pretty good effort though. Watching him play, I don't think he really made any lazy or boneheaded plays.

[Severn Hoos]

I was on a plane, so didn't get to see the game - got a question for those who did. Lots of criticism for Thornton, which is understandable looking at the box score. OTOH, Gay had by far his worst offensive game of the year. Any insight as to why that was? Di Al or Nick or anyone else primarily bottle him up? Or was he just off for the game?

[LyricalRico]

Given KH's weaknesses I pointed-out earlier and the fact that Gilbert no-longer is who he was 5 years ago, it would be in the long-term interest of the team to eventually have someone who is capable of finishing and creating for the other guys IMO.

You're right, we definitely don't have anybody who can finish and create for others while playing extended minutes at the PG position. If only we'd been able to draft somebody like John Wall...

Seriously, Gil not being the guy he was as far as getting to the rim is PERFECT for us since that makes it easier for him to be an off-the-ball scorer next to Wall (who is our new get to the rim guy). Wall penetrates and Gil shoots, which IMO is better than Gil and Wall fighting over who's turn it is to drive the lane. If that dynamic exists and excels, all I'm looking for in a backup PG is a guy who plays hard on defense and doesn't make mistakes on offense while he's in for 10mpg. Hinrich is fine for that right now and down the road you can pick up vets off the street to do that. So I'd prefer to use our assets on areas where we have a larger need (like rebounding and post scoring).

[JonathanJoseph]

Given KH's weaknesses I pointed-out earlier and the fact that Gilbert no-longer is who he was 5 years ago, it would be in the long-term interest of the team to eventually have someone who is capable of finishing and creating for the other guys IMO.

You're right, we definitely don't have anybody who can finish and create for others while playing extended minutes at the PG position. If only we'd been able to draft somebody like John Wall...

Seriously, Gil not being the guy he was as far as getting to the rim is PERFECT for us since that makes it easier for him to be an off-the-ball scorer next to Wall (who is our new get to the rim guy). Wall penetrates and Gil shoots, which IMO is better than Gil and Wall fighting over who's turn it is to drive the lane. If that dynamic exists and excels, all I'm looking for in a backup PG is a guy who plays hard on defense and doesn't make mistakes on offense while he's in for 10mpg. Hinrich is fine for that right now and down the road you can pick up vets off the street to do that. So I'd prefer to use our assets on areas where we have a larger need (like rebounding and post scoring).

Agree that Closg's comments are, as typical, silly.

But I'm not sure I buy the Wall/Arenas analogy. Carmelo Anthony is a pure scorer but needs Chauncey Billups to thrive and Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry do just fine sharing the ball in the GS backcourt.

The idea that it needs to be either Wall or Arenas is, IMO, a false choice. Wall will never be responisble for 100% of the dribbles done by Wizards. But I agree that in general, Wall is pass-first and Arenas is score-first and that combination should be quite good.

If Hinrich spends the duration of his contract with the Wiz and wants to resign for backup PG money I'm all for it, because he seems to play quite well with Arenas and Wall.

There is plenty of cap space available to pursue the inevitable big man that is needed to round out the core.

[BanndNDC]

I was on a plane, so didn't get to see the game - got a question for those who did. Lots of criticism for Thornton, which is understandable looking at the box score. OTOH, Gay had by far his worst offensive game of the year. Any insight as to why that was? Di Al or Nick or anyone else primarily bottle him up? Or was he just off for the game?

take the criticism of thornton with a grain of salt. he wasnt bad, he was ok (same with young). took a few forced bad shots but not that bad and partly a result of the positions he was put in.

as for defense. thornton did a decent job on gay but in my opinion the real reason why gay's stats were low was because blatche was getting abused by randolph and they keyed in on that. so there offense flowed that way. young did get totally burned at least once and was bailed out by armstrong with a great block. their transition game was bottled up becuase mcgee was hustling everywhere preventing clean rebounds and ironically blatche was being lazy and often just stood at the top of the 3 point line on offense. so i guess you could say blatche and mcgee bottled up gay. blatche through poor play and mcgee by preventing clean rebounds and changing shots.

thornton did respond really well when blatche started playing well in the 4th though.

[closg00]

Given KH's weaknesses I pointed-out earlier and the fact that Gilbert no-longer is who he was 5 years ago, it would be in the long-term interest of the team to eventually have someone who is capable of finishing and creating for the other guys IMO.

You're right, we definitely don't have anybody who can finish and create for others while playing extended minutes at the PG position. If only we'd been able to draft somebody like John Wall...

Seriously, Gil not being the guy he was as far as getting to the rim is PERFECT for us since that makes it easier for him to be an off-the-ball scorer next to Wall (who is our new get to the rim guy). Wall penetrates and Gil shoots, which IMO is better than Gil and Wall fighting over who's turn it is to drive the lane. If that dynamic exists and excels, all I'm looking for in a backup PG is a guy who plays hard on defense and doesn't make mistakes on offense while he's in for 10mpg. Hinrich is fine for that right now and down the road you can pick up vets off the street to do that. So I'd prefer to use our assets on areas where we have a larger need (like rebounding and post scoring).

I was referring to KH's role at back-up point, he expires next year, obviously we have Wall. In KH's place, I'd like to see someone more athletic and strong in the areas that Gil is now weak.

[dobrojim]

I was on a plane, so didn't get to see the game - got a question for those who did. Lots of criticism for Thornton, which is understandable looking at the box score. OTOH, Gay had by far his worst offensive game of the year. Any insight as to why that was? Di Al or Nick or anyone else primarily bottle him up? Or was he just off for the game?

take the criticism of thornton with a grain of salt. he wasnt bad, he was ok (same with young). took a few forced bad shots but not that bad and partly a result of the positions he was put in.

as for defense. thornton did a decent job on gay but in my opinion the real reason why gay's stats were low was because blatche was getting abused by randolph and they keyed in on that. so there offense flowed that way. young did get totally burned at least once and was bailed out by armstrong with a great block. their transition game was bottled up becuase mcgee was hustling everywhere preventing clean rebounds and ironically blatche was being lazy and often just stood at the top of the 3 point line on offense. so i guess you could say blatche and mcgee bottled up gay. blatche through poor play and mcgee by preventing clean rebounds and changing shots.

thornton did respond really well when blatche started playing well in the 4th though.

Randolph had a solid game but it's not like he went off. AB's own offense was
just a notch below what Randolph ended up with. AT/AB were slightly less
productive than Gay/Randolph. Obviously Gil/KH outscoring Mayo/Conley
in a huge way was the key reason we won. And FTs which Gil/KH were
great and both generating and capitalizing on.

[willbcocks]

I was on a plane, so didn't get to see the game - got a question for those who did. Lots of criticism for Thornton, which is understandable looking at the box score. OTOH, Gay had by far his worst offensive game of the year. Any insight as to why that was? Di Al or Nick or anyone else primarily bottle him up? Or was he just off for the game?

take the criticism of thornton with a grain of salt. he wasnt bad, he was ok (same with young). took a few forced bad shots but not that bad and partly a result of the positions he was put in.

as for defense. thornton did a decent job on gay but in my opinion the real reason why gay's stats were low was because blatche was getting abused by randolph and they keyed in on that. so there offense flowed that way. young did get totally burned at least once and was bailed out by armstrong with a great block. their transition game was bottled up becuase mcgee was hustling everywhere preventing clean rebounds and ironically blatche was being lazy and often just stood at the top of the 3 point line on offense. so i guess you could say blatche and mcgee bottled up gay. blatche through poor play and mcgee by preventing clean rebounds and changing shots.

thornton did respond really well when blatche started playing well in the 4th though.

On offense, I thought Thornton was pretty terrible. He was not moving the ball, took a few very bad shots, missed a few shots that weren't even close, and turned it over trying to drive the ball into no man's land. Looked like a black hole last game and the couple before that.

[Hoopalotta]

The offense just creates shots for the small forward which are ill-suited for Thornton to handle. It's well and nice to talk about putting him in spots that work better for Al, but we need a complimentary player that greases the gears with spacing for our more prominent pieces to be more effective.

He's not a bad guy and brings good effort/toughness, but he's just not a particularly good fit for us in the halfcourt. Even with two shooters like Gil and Kirk in, a kickout sniper just works better there. Ideally, Al will be coming in off the bench with an offensively limited second unit and pulling off some heat-check dribble drives. Probably his best role.

[pancakes3]

regarding hinny - he did great against a smaller guard: conley, and a rookie guard: vasquez. however, the second tony allen, all 6'4 215lbs of him stepped out onto the court, it was game over for hinrich.

it was definitely a "note-to-self" game where a good coach would learn from his mistakes and note that hinrich can't handle playing pg against tall opponents.

other things i learned:
- we can't front post players because our help defenders aren't quick (minded) enough to make the adjustments.
- thornton has a hitch in his spot up jumper
- funneling opposing offenses towards McGee works
- there are limits to mcgee's alleyooping
- young's mentality is changing but his bad habit of fading away while shooting is still there (even in FREE THROWS!)
- we have the ability to be a 20 ast/game team. we just lack the mindset.