Starting The 3 Small Guard Lineup Thoughts?

[nate33]

FWIW, I never said that Arenas shouldn't start. I'm just saying that we shouldn't start at 3-guard lineup.

I think the decision on starting Arenas is dependent upon whether or not his minutes are to be limited. If they're trying to restrict him to 32 minutes a game, it's pretty hard to start him, play him with Wall out, and play him in crunch time. It's much easier to simply bring him off the bench for Wall at the 8:00 mark in the 1st and 3rd quarter and then leave him in for the remainder of each half. That gets him 32 total minutes, including all the minutes with Wall out, all the crunch time minutes, and he's in the game at the end of each quarter to run the isolation play.

If Arenas has the green light to play 36+ minutes, then we should go ahead and start him. Hinrich can come off the bench for the middle 12 minutes of each half, with Wall and Arenas taking turns getting a 6-minute rest on the bench.

I note that Arenas played 39 and 43 minutes in the last two games respectively. I don't know if that means they're more comfortable with Gil's knee, or if it just means that they were desperate for quality guard play with Wall out.

[nate33]

I didn't know where else to put this:

Arenas had 16 assists yesterday. So far this season, Hinrich has posted 12 assists once, and Wall has posted 13 assists twice. So we've had 3 players tabulate at least 12 assists in one game this season. I wonder how often that happens? How often has a team had three players with at least 12 assists in one season? It's probably happened before, but I seriously doubt it's ever happened within the first 12 games of a season. I couldn't figure out a way to look it up on basketball-reference.com

[507Mack]

I've said it before, but I really don't see why Hinrich is so revered as a player. They gave him a friggin montage in Chicago. I wonder if it was just a compilation of him missing big shots and being "scrappy". Sure, he had a nice 3rd quarter against Memphis and has been hitting some shots, but he has also been turning the ball over (3 unforced turnovers against the Pistons) and killing our offense with his 15 seconds of dribbling on every possession.

Hinrich is nothing but a backup PG in this league, nothing more. Bring him off the bench with Nick Young, and we should be fine. We still haven't seen Gil and Wall at their full potential, and I'm sure once we see it then the idea of even considering having Hinrich start will be a nice inside joke between us all.

[507Mack]

And by now, isn't Gil's knee fine? Do we really need to worry about it? He missed he beginning of the year bc of a groin and ankle, not bc of his knee. Let's play him and Wall for 40+ minutes if we can.

[dlts20]

Why do you guys keep saying start vs finish like it has to be 2 different things? I dont think the people who want Arenas to start are saying that they dont care about who finishes. Every star in the league starts & finishes. Thats the point

[Jimmy Recard]

Use it in spots, especially if we're playing against an undersized SF that Kirk can handle defensively. Otherwise only use it to close out games (on offense). On a final possession with the game on the line, our line-up should be either Gil or Wall handling the ball, Kirk and Dray in to stretch the floor, and Javale in for his offensive rebounding.

[hands11]

One thing is for sure, we better start Gil. Gil made some strange comments after the previous game saying how when Wall comes back its his show and he will take his foot off the gas. He said that he will go back to the bench. I hope he's just trying to be a good teammate because it would be stupid to make him a bench player. If Flip is hell bent on starting Kirk then it better be over Al and not Gil

I don't understand why you care so much who starts. I want Wall to play 36 minutes, Gil to play 32, and Hinrich to play 28 or less (depending on if Nick plays well). My only other stipulation is that I want Flip to make sure one of Arenas or Wall is on the court at all times and I want Gil in the game at crunch time.

I agree. That is what makes having both of them so dangerous.

Not many if any team have two players who can play ball in hand as talented as those two. Plus, Gil can adjust and stay on the court at the 2. Plus, Kirk as insurance in case something happens like what just happened to Wall.

[hands11]

One thing is for sure, we better start Gil. Gil made some strange comments after the previous game saying how when Wall comes back its his show and he will take his foot off the gas. He said that he will go back to the bench. I hope he's just trying to be a good teammate because it would be stupid to make him a bench player. If Flip is hell bent on starting Kirk then it better be over Al and not Gil

I don't understand why you care so much who starts. I want Wall to play 36 minutes, Gil to play 32, and Hinrich to play 28 or less (depending on if Nick plays well). My only other stipulation is that I want Flip to make sure one of Arenas or Wall is on the court at all times and I want Gil in the game at crunch time.

I'm with Nate on having either Gil or Wall in at all times and Gil in at crunch time. The one thing that's bothering me right now is that without Wall it seems like Hinrich plays more PG than Gil when they are in the game at the same time. I want Gil as the PG and Hiney at SG especially in 4th quarters. As well as Gil can do off the ball, I feel far more comfortable if he's initiating the offense instead of Kirk.

Absolutely. It is way different when you PG can drive or drive and dish. Kirk seems more of a set up by. But he did go three possessions last game where he score on each on. I guess even Kirk is needing to adjust and find his game so many it get better over him.

[hands11]

One thing is for sure, we better start Gil. Gil made some strange comments after the previous game saying how when Wall comes back its his show and he will take his foot off the gas. He said that he will go back to the bench. I hope he's just trying to be a good teammate because it would be stupid to make him a bench player. If Flip is hell bent on starting Kirk then it better be over Al and not Gil

I don't understand why you care so much who starts. I want Wall to play 36 minutes, Gil to play 32, and Hinrich to play 28 or less (depending on if Nick plays well). My only other stipulation is that I want Flip to make sure one of Arenas or Wall is on the court at all times and I want Gil in the game at crunch time.

I think it is important who starts. The first quarter usually sets the tone for the whole game. Like it or not Arenas is still our best player. Why would we continually put ourselves behind the 8ball by not putting out the best possible lineup on the court to start the game? Plus while it makes sense to have Arenas or Wall on the court at all times, it would make even more sense to allow Arenas & Wall to build some chemistry together.

I hate the idea of a 3 guard lineup though. Hinrich isn't showing he can stop anyone, much less SFs. Maybe you could get away with Young at SF but not Hinrich. Adding Gee into the mix should help though.

And now you can add McGee's energy to that. Wall, Gil and McGee. We should be able to come out with energy if someone tries to jump us. Dray, if he plays smart and knows when not to force things, is a nice addition to that group. But even when he isn't, he will still be out there so no reason to play like he isn't.

Here is lies the bigger question as I see it. What balances out that line up the best.

Wall, Gil, SF, Dray, McGee

It's hard to me to not want to see a pick setting banger since we lack good pick setting so much. That would not be not be Yi or Kirk. Yi doesn't do it and Kirk is smaller than we need.

It could be AT if he is playing right, if not Booker. It's great to have another scorer but I would take a pick setter and banger over more points given that line up. If you want point, you go with Nick.

Wall, Gil and Nick will likely show some promise given a little time. But anyway we go, we should be really athletic.

[VA_story]

I hate small ball but we lack talent at the SF position ..Nah, I still say don't do it. Our defense is bad enough.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The 3-guard lineup is a net -6 in 28 minutes. They score well -- 1.16 points per possession -- but get scored upon easily (1.27 points allowed per possession).

Nick Young is the answer defensively at SG, as hard as that is to fathom.

The problem with the three guards, featuring Gil, Kirk, and John Wall is that you have three PGs splitting 96 minutes, and putting Nick Young on the bench. Young at SF is not good overall, like he has been at SG.

I would start Gil and John Wall. Kirk and Nick would be their primary backups. All four would play. Nick Young would get at least 12-15 minutes at SG. That leaves only 81 minutes for Gil, Kirk, and John Wall. I think some nights when Nick's feeling it he'd get up to 10 minutes additional at SF.

I'd try to get Kirk Hinrich 20 minutes a game, but I'd jerk his minutes around a bit. Kirk's a vet, a pro, and a grinder. He'd cooperate. Kirk would play PG, SG, and SF for me at times. Some nights he migh play 30 plus, like when Gil is out.

Gil and John Wall would have to be satifisied with 60 minutes between them. Gil would have to play his butt off for me for about 25-30 minutes. I would also SIT GIL some games, like in back to backs. i would let Gilbert know I'm thinking about his future and the team's. His being healed and fresh in February through April helps this team and him. Gil would play less than Wall because Gil's been injured and he's at risk out there.

Wall I'd play 30-35 minutes. However, I'd train him on the turnovers the same way Flip's holding Javale accountable. In fact, all the guards would be pressured by competition for minutes. I don't want them playing tight, but they need to play smart.

My biggest thought about the three guards is don't forget about Nick Young at SG.

[Soup's Uncle]

They need to start Wall, Gil, Thornton, Blatche & McGee.

[dlts20]

Im thinking of NY over Al right now the way he's been looking or maybe keep NY as the scorer off the bench and start Gee

[LyricalRico]

They need to start Wall, Gil, Thornton, Blatche & McGee.

Agreed. Thornton hasn't done anything to "lose" his starting spot. He's not our best player, but he's probably been the most consistent from Game 1. I'd like to keep Young in reserve to have some bench scoring. If you want to give Gee minutes, have him backup Thornton and give Young a chunk of Hinrich's minutes at SG.

[dlts20]

yeah, Id probably go with Al the more I think about it, for a few reasons. NY is still too undersized to play against starting 3's consistently, even though he may can get it back on the other end. The one reason I dont like the 3 small guard lineup is that its too short for rebounding and it puts too many ball handlers on the floor. Gil & Wall need the ball enough as it is so you dont want to have another guy to take it out there hands. NY wont be as bad at that as Kirk but he will handle it more than Al will. Last but not least, I dont want too many other scorers out there. Sometimes that can hurt guys rythms.

I think with Wall-Gil-Dray & McGee, Al is the perfect guy who wont demand alot of shots to take away from other guys but can be consistent if he's right. NY may be a little scoring dominant to where Wall-Gil or Dray may get a short end, and thats not even including McGee scoring more. You also like NY's consistent scoring punch off the bench right now. On the flip side though I also think about us getting Howard back and then we will have another scorer in that starting group anyways so you may should go with NY right now. Im also definitely not against giving NY some of Kirk's minutes but Ill never talk about it because it will never happen with Flip & EG. They love Kirk. Only one getting more love than him from those guys will be Wall

[Scabs304]

I don't mind having 3 guards on the floor when it includes Martin, Young or Gee because they can all reasonably play the 3. I don't like the 3 guard line-up of Wall, Arenas and Hinrich.... Maybe if you need outside shooting for a set of plays, but at that point in time might as well play Young or Martin at the 4 too.

[verbal8]

I don't mind having 3 guards on the floor when it includes Martin, Young or Gee because they can all reasonably play the 3. I don't like the 3 guard line-up of Wall, Arenas and Hinrich.... Maybe if you need outside shooting for a set of plays, but at that point in time might as well play Young or Martin at the 4 too.

I think the issue is 3 SMALL guards. Young doesn't rebound well enough to really be a 3, but he has the height and length to defend the position. Martin and Gee are SFs, so it is a more traditional line-up if they are playing.