Bargnani vs. Gallinari

[RapsVC15]

Andrea is a top 20 shot blocker in the league, which somewhat makes up for his lack of rebounds.

He's scoring at will. Even the shots he isn't making right now are excellent looks which he should make as the season progresses.

He's been getting good position on his post ups. His post moves have been more fluid and less robotic than years past.

All in all, I'm pretty impressed by what I've seen from Andrea so far, outside his obvious lack of rebounds which naturally should progress upwards for 4.8 as the season goes on.

22/6/2 on >45 from the field >40 from 3 this season sounds about right.

[NO-KG-AI]

Andrea is a top 20 shot blocker in the league, which somewhat makes up for his lack of rebounds.

He's scoring at will. Even the shots he isn't making right now are excellent looks which he should make as the season progresses.

He's been getting good position on his post ups. His post moves have been more fluid and less robotic than years past.

All in all, I'm pretty impressed by what I've seen from Andrea so far, outside his obvious lack of rebounds which naturally should progress upwards for 4.8 as the season goes on.

22/6/2 on >45 from the field >40 from 3 this season sounds about right.

hahahah.

Other than the first part, which is laughable, read tsherkin's post.

[RapsVC15]

Andrea is a top 20 shot blocker in the league, which somewhat makes up for his lack of rebounds.

He's scoring at will. Even the shots he isn't making right now are excellent looks which he should make as the season progresses.

He's been getting good position on his post ups. His post moves have been more fluid and less robotic than years past.

All in all, I'm pretty impressed by what I've seen from Andrea so far, outside his obvious lack of rebounds which naturally should progress upwards for 4.8 as the season goes on.

22/6/2 on >45 from the field >40 from 3 this season sounds about right.

hahahah.

Other than the first part, which is laughable, read tsherkin's post.

Try you know, actually watching a Raptor game and then maybe you'd realize there is absolutely nothing wrong with what I said.

He will be a top20 shot blocker in the league, he has missed a ton of easy looks he usually makes, and his post moves have looked a million times better than past seasons. His rebounding is downright pathetic but when your at least blocking shots, your not a complete and utter pansy.

I love reading T-Sherkin posts, but the guy has a natural hate-on for Bargnani.

[tsherkin]

No, I respect that Bargs is a pretty good post defender and I respect that he's in a situation right now that he's never experienced before. He's not a natural post player and he's not used to playing center, even after 4+ seasons in the NBA. I can even sympathize with his terrible help defense instincts because he's been playing as a SF for most of his developmental years prior to the NBA. But he's also evidenced no improvement as a rebounder or help defender since hitting the NBA and that's frustrating. And I don't care what you want to call me, but 47% 3P% isn't sustainable for him, and that's a major part of his offensive efficiency (which last I checked was at 53.7% TS, which is around league average).

I don't respect his godawful rebounding, because that's mainly effort related.

He does get blocks, and whenever he does, he flashes potential on D that he doesn't consistently realize, which is at once frustrating and exciting to see if he finally gets it. What I think of Bargs cannot be construed as hate, though, it's merely representative of truths about his game. He's pretty terrible for his position. If he were a 4, or a 3 (or even swapped as a combo forward depending on matchups), it'd be marginally more acceptable. If he were a 6th man, his position would be largely irrelevant, but his game is too full of holes to be acceptable at his position and as a starter.

Meantime, his shot-blocking doesn't make up for him being the worst rebounder in the league at his position. It does some to mitigate the problems he creates as a result of that inadequacy, but it certainly doesn't overcome it. Lest you forget, he's averaging 1.3 bpg. That's decent, but the Raptors are still noticeably below-average in every defensive category AND they are still consistently struggling on the defensive glass. We're actually first in offensive rebounding for the moment, which is great... but that has everything to do with Amir Johnson and Reggie Evans and nothing to do with Bargs.

Again, you can say what you like about the fact that I tend to have negative things to say about Bargs... but eventually, facts bear out... He's not a very good player as a starter. He can heat up in a hurry on assisted jumpers and once in a while, he can take his man off the bounce if he's got a slower dude on him. He's even learning to post up a little, he's playing pretty well on some hooks and stuff so far this year. It's a half-decade into it, but he's finally showing signs of a decent post game.

Still, this guy has "6th Man" stamped on his forehead, branded into his ass and tattooed all over him, and yet people still treat him like a starter. And by people, I mainly mean Colangelo and Triano, since everyone else seems to see the same stuff I see. It has nothing to do with hate; he's got a workable skillset that makes him a valuable player.... so long as he's used in the appropriate role, which is instant-offense bench player, not starting center.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't think there is any amount of blocked shots that makes up for being the worst rebounding big since Thurl Bailey, especially not 1.3 frigging blocks.

[NYK 455]

Gallo had a rough start, probably because of his wrist, but has been playing pretty well recently, and had a great night against the Bulls the other day. Bargs is a decent scorer, but is the worst rebounding Center I have ever seen, it's pathetic. Not to mention Gallo is a few years younger and is years away from hitting his prime. Bargs is still young too, and will probably improve into a better scorer, especially when he really gets used to his role as number 1 scoring option, but his rebounding at the 4 and 5 will always hold back how effective he can be. Gallo has all star potential, is extremely young at 22 years old, and has the drive, swagger, and attitude to be as good as he can be.

I'll take Gallo now and for the future, although Bargs had the better start.

[TrueWarrior]

These guys seem to be picking it up nicely.

Bargs is at 22/5 in November (12 games). 46% FG, 42% 3, 51-60 FT
Gallo is at 20/5 in November since his injury (11 games). 43% FG, 41% 3, 80-87 FT

Both players just had three good games in a row (all wins).

Bargs Last 3
30/7 on 12-18 FG, 1-3 3P, 5-6 FT
26/6 on 11-17 FG, 1-1 3P, 3-3 FT
29/2 on 9-20 FG, 2-6 3P, 9-13 FT

Gallos Last 3
27/4 on 4-8 FG, 3-5 3P, 16-17 FT
23/0 on 7-15 FG, 3-5 3P, 6-6 FT
31/4 on 7-11 FG, 4-6 3P, 13-13 FT

Rebounding isnt a strength for either player. The more efficient scorer goes to Gallo with his edge in threes and FTs, as hes taken less actual FG attempts than Bargs but scored the same amount of points. His TS% is much higher for this reason. As far as defense goes I cant really comment on Bargs since I dont watch too many Raptors games, but Gallo has been OKAY on the defensive end. His opponent PER is around 16 while Bargs is at 20.

Hopefully they both continue to play well though. Italy stand up.

[tsherkin]

From what I've heard and seen, Gallo taking some of the ball-handling duties away from Felton has been a good part of Amare starting to play more effectively as well, which is going to be HUGE for the Knicks.

Bargs continues to score well. The Raptors are -2.1 points per 100 possessions on offense with him on the court, which is a little weird, but he's been showing himself capable of scoring effectively against what teams are throwing at him so far and that's cool.

That we're +17 PTS100 with him ON the court on defense is just absolutely terrifying, as that's worse than Stoudemire and the Knicks, which is reprehensible. Andrea continues to be among the least effective overall defenders in the league, primarily because he still hasn't figured out help defense.

[TrueWarrior]

From what I've heard and seen, Gallo taking some of the ball-handling duties away from Felton has been a good part of Amare starting to play more effectively as well, which is going to be HUGE for the Knicks.

Bargs continues to score well. The Raptors are -2.1 points per 100 possessions on offense with him on the court, which is a little weird, but he's been showing himself capable of scoring effectively against what teams are throwing at him so far and that's cool.

That we're +17 PTS100 with him ON the court on defense is just absolutely terrifying, as that's worse than Stoudemire and the Knicks, which is reprehensible. Andrea continues to be among the least effective overall defenders in the league, primarily because he still hasn't figured out help defense.

Yea letting Gallo, Fields, and Turiaf facilitate a little more has helped our offense tremendously. We pretty much scrapped the pick and roll because Felton was having trouble with it. Dantoni realized Felton isnt Nash, who can do everything himself, but that Felton is still a very good player in his own right that we werent getting the most out of. Now we're actually running some parts of the Triangle offense and letting Felton become more of a scorer. The change has helped the ball movement all around but more specifically helped Gallo just get more involved besides merely being a shooter. So far everybody seems to be benefitting from the change, but we'll see what happens.

[MikeM]

From what I've heard and seen, Gallo taking some of the ball-handling duties away from Felton has been a good part of Amare starting to play more effectively as well, which is going to be HUGE for the Knicks.

Bargs continues to score well. The Raptors are -2.1 points per 100 possessions on offense with him on the court, which is a little weird, but he's been showing himself capable of scoring effectively against what teams are throwing at him so far and that's cool.

That we're +17 PTS100 with him ON the court on defense is just absolutely terrifying, as that's worse than Stoudemire and the Knicks, which is reprehensible. Andrea continues to be among the least effective overall defenders in the league, primarily because he still hasn't figured out help defense.

What's worse though, Bargnani's help defence or the Raptors asking him to anchor their defence lol?

It's like asking David West or Nowitzki to protect the rim for your team. I just think Bargnani would garner much less criticism if he was playing his natural position as a PF.

[NYK 455]

Despite Gallo's rought start, he's averaging nearly 17 ppg with a TS% over 60, and that's despite shooting below 40% from the field and from three. Once that number goes up, he's going to be one of the most efficient perimeter players in the NBA, if he's not already.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Player A: 14 games - 16.7 ppg / 4.4rpg / 1.2apg / .9stl 39FG 92FT

PlayerB 14 games - 21.7ppg / 4rpg / 1.4apg / .8bpg 46%FG 83%FT

SO far bargs has played decent on defense. Clearly the rebounds are a problem but if the team is winning the rebounding battle most nights its not much of an issue. He is scoring like a man possessed.

And as for the people ragging on Bargs for his Defense, I'd love to see how well gallo does on the defensive end if he were playing the two guard constantly... thats what its like for bargs always at center. Players tend to play better in their natural position.

[Volcano]

And as for the people ragging on Bargs for his Defense, I'd love to see how well gallo does on the defensive end if he were playing the two guard constantly... thats what its like for bargs always at center. Players tend to play better in their natural position.

man D isn't Bargnani's major problem anyways. He has a center's body as well. Any big man, whether it's PF or C's should be protecting the paint or rotating appropriately. Boxing out and preventing offensive boards is also a part of defense.

Triano's done a decent job of trying to hide Bargnani's deficiencies by putting him on whoever's out of the paint anyways. Against the Lakers, he guarded mostly Odom. Rashard against Orlando, Brad Miller against Houston, Big Baby against Boston. Unfortunately..that left the Raps with Reggie guarding the other big and Reggie's a poor help defender.

The "position" excuse is one of the worst excuses anyone can come up with.

[Bucksfans1and2]

Player A: 14 games - 16.7 ppg / 4.4rpg / 1.2apg / .9stl 39FG 92FT

PlayerB 14 games - 21.7ppg / 4rpg / 1.4apg / .8bpg 46%FG 83%FT

SO far bargs has played decent on defense. Clearly the rebounds are a problem but if the team is winning the rebounding battle most nights its not much of an issue. He is scoring like a man possessed.

And as for the people ragging on Bargs for his Defense, I'd love to see how well gallo does on the defensive end if he were playing the two guard constantly... thats what its like for bargs always at center. Players tend to play better in their natural position.

Switch the FG% to TS% and this is isn't even close.

[Lionel Messi]

Bargnani's defence and rebounding is the same as always. Bad (well, his man D is solid).

He is doing well offensively though.

[ballislife]

C'mon friends, they're both practically the same. Although I will say this... I would love to see Bargnani play regularly at the PF position (officially), WITH a defense first, rebounding big man... that's when you'll all see Bargnani at his best, and you will be surprised. If Ed Davis can come out and prove to be a good defensive player (blocking shots) while pulling down boards, I think It'll make Bargnani a better overall player.

[dogrufus]

C'mon friends, they're both practically the same. Although I will say this... I would love to see Bargnani play regularly at the PF position (officially), WITH a defense first, rebounding big man... that's when you'll all see Bargnani at his best, and you will be surprised. If Ed Davis can come out and prove to be a good defensive player (blocking shots) while pulling down boards, I think It'll make Bargnani a better overall player.

Durrr they iz both Italian so they must be the same!!!!!

What an ignorant fallacy.

Bargnani: 3.35 FGA's per FTA
Gallo: 1.57 FGA's per FTA

Those are not similar figures. Gallo gets to the line more than twice as often even though he shoots more threes than Bargnani.

Bagnani: .550 TS%, 22.6 pts/36
Gallo: .615 TS%, 18.5 pts/36

Bargnani is around the league average in scoring efficiency while Gallo is top 5 among forwards. Again, not "practically the same."

They get the same amount of rebounds while Gallo is a SF and Bargnani is a C. This makes Gallo an average rebounder for his position while Bargnani is a worst of all-time candidate.

Bargnani: 1.4 AST/36, 2.7 TO/36
Gallo: 1.6 AST/36, 1.0 TO/36

Bargnani turns the ball over 270% as often as Gallo does, but Gallo still gets more assists. If these guys are practically the same then so are Nash and Felton.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Player A: 21.3 ppg / 5.5rpg / 1.7 apg / .6spg / .7bpg / 47.4 FG% 82.8FT%

Player B: 15.3ppg / 4.6rpg / 1.7apg / .7spg / .4bpg / 40 FG% 90.9FT%

[RutgersBJJ]

Player A: 21.3 ppg / 5.5rpg / 1.7 apg / .6spg / .7bpg / 47.4 FG% 82.8FT%

Player B: 15.3ppg / 4.6rpg / 1.7apg / .7spg / .4bpg / 40 FG% 90.9FT%

poster a: only posts raw stats because it makes his favorite 7 foot Italian seem equal to a guy who wasn't even a top 5 pick.

poster b: is here calling you out. Why not post how many FGA per game they have to score their points. Why not post the amount of charges drawn per game? Why not post the amount of times each of them get to the FT line. Why not post Win Shares, WS per 48, adjusted +/-, or any other stat. They all show Bargs for how bad he is. You can argue all you want about how good Bargs would be if he played PF, but he isn't a PF. I'm pretty sure if his best position was PF than Colangelo would force his crony to play his golden child at PF.


I'm going to take the player who gets to the FT line so he is effective even when his shot isn't falling (which it often hasn't this season). I'm going to take the guy who can play within a team concept and doesn't dominate the ball on losing teams. I'm going to take the guy who doesn't have one of the worst adjusted plus-minus stats in the league.

[MSGBallerz]

This has to be Bargnani. Gallinari is invisible.