Wiz Sign Alonzo Gee, Pg 2 (WAS: We've got a situation here:)

[nate33]

Guess Martin 6-7 220 and Gee 6-6 220 will battle it out from now till sometime in December.

Both guys are listed at 6'-6.5" in shoes, but Martin is almost a full inch shorter in bare feet.

Code: Select all

Name            Year     Ht.NoSh    Height    Wt.     Wngspn   
Alonzo Gee      2009     6' 5.25    6' 6.5    225     6' 10   
Cartier Marti   2007     6' 4.5     6' 6.5    218     6' 10   

[WizStorm]

I'm sorry, but it doesn't take "behind the scenes" knowledge to know that the Wizards had Gee's rights after signing him to the 1st 10 day contract. The only way that Gee had the option to sign as a free agent with another team is when the Wizards let Gee's 2nd 10-day contract expire before extending the contract for the rest of the season.

These are the facts, there is no spin and no inside knowledge for that sequence of events. Sure you can speculate that Gee made a formal request of the Wizards to not sign him for the rest of the season and the Wizards acquiesced to his demands that made him a free agent. I find that scenario a little far-fetched, especially knowing that Flip made comments in the media that he wanted to keep Gee and was genuinely shocked when the Wizards didn't retain him.

Perspective might be helpful. Like Hoop, I'm not a fan of Ernie. I've called for him being replaced a long time ago. But to make a big deal about letting go a player with as shakey a resume as Gee has is a little bit silly - especially since EG got him back for nothing. He's a 6'6 forward who hasn't accomplished anything in college or the NBA. He's a poor man's Bill Walker. Now, not having Bill Walker is a better EJ complaint. He was picked by the Wiz in the 2nd round and sold. Gee wasn't even good enough to get drafted.

As I stated before (at the time and in my previous post in this thread), this has nothing to do with Gee the basketball player. It has everything to do with EG making a miscalculation based on erroneous bookkeeping. Sure you can look past his goof because of the caliber or player involved, but in the end it is still a goof and that is what I was dinging him on.

I also have never advocated that this one incident in itself should ever be used as a total indictment on EG the GM/President. However, for me personally, I view EG's past mistakes and already failed run with this franchise and see this incident as just small part of a troubling trend in his lack of attention to detail. I have a hard time simply wiping the slate clean and giving EG a free pass with his 2nd go-around in rebuilding this franchise. Not that i don't like the pieces this team has so far, I just have a funny feeling in the pit of my stomach as to what the end product will look like in the future (and the bloated salaries he'll saddle this franchise with yet again).

[Nivek]

Are you certain that Ernie did not offer Gee a contract for the remainder of the season before his 2nd 10-day expired?

I ask, because I know the guys in the front office well enough to know that it would be extraordinary for them to overlook something like this.

My guess -- without talking to anyone about it -- is that while Gee was on his 2nd 10-day, the Spurs approached Gee's agent and said they'd be interested in signing him. The Wizards also offered him a deal for the remainder of the season. But, the chance to get guaranteed money and go back to the Spurs (he'd already been to training camp with the Spurs, and had played for the Spurs D-League team) was attractive so he left.

Now that the Spurs have cut him loose, the Wizards are looking better.

It is possible for a player to sign somewhere else without it being caused by gross incompetence by the Wizards front office. Or maybe they should have made Gee an offer he couldn't refuse.

I can see Ernie now, "Alonzo, either your signature or your brains will be on this contract."

[Hoopalotta]

Are you certain that Ernie did not offer Gee a contract for the remainder of the season before his 2nd 10-day expired?

I ask, because I know the guys in the front office well enough to know that it would be extraordinary for them to overlook something like this.

Exactly. Nobody knows anything for certain as to how the whole thing was handled internally. Any number of communications could have gone back and forth before Gee's leaving that would account for the final result. The only thing we really do know is that Gee wanted to go to the Spurs. There is no "revisionism" because this board had zero inside information as to the procedural particulars of the team's dealings with Gee.

Sure, maybe they screwed up. Maybe Tommie Shepherd was passed out after drinking a jug of fermented Cherry Coke and Ernie was busy chatting on Yahoo messenger with a one-legged widow from the Ukraine. Maybe they were indeed negligent; maybe they were negligent to a degree that goes well beyond even the wildest of our conjectures, but, we have no hard facts on what actually happened.

From what I've read on BF more recently, it seems that Gee turned down a formal contract offer from the 'Zards to finish out the year with us and didn't want to be here.

[closg00]

Are you certain that Ernie did not offer Gee a contract for the remainder of the season before his 2nd 10-day expired?

I ask, because I know the guys in the front office well enough to know that it would be extraordinary for them to overlook something like this.

My guess -- without talking to anyone about it -- is that while Gee was on his 2nd 10-day, the Spurs approached Gee's agent and said they'd be interested in signing him. The Wizards also offered him a deal for the remainder of the season. But, the chance to get guaranteed money and go back to the Spurs (he'd already been to training camp with the Spurs, and had played for the Spurs D-League team) was attractive so he left.

Now that the Spurs have cut him loose, the Wizards are looking better.

It is possible for a player to sign somewhere else without it being caused by gross incompetence by the Wizards front office. Or maybe they should have made Gee an offer he couldn't refuse.

I can see Ernie now, "Alonzo, either your signature or your brains will be on this contract."

I know Alonzo Gee's cousin and he said that the Wiz did not offer him a contract and that Spurs were waiting. Anyone can make a claim on a message board. The preponderance of available evidence (basically press reports) supports WizStorm recap of what occurred with Gee. The onus is Grunfeld supporters to supply ANY evidence to the contrary...and they have not; not that this matters anymore

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

Even in just two games, I think it's pretty clear that Alonzo Gee is a much better basketball player than Cartier Martin.

[Dat2U]

Even in just two games, I think it's pretty clear that Alonzo Gee is a much better basketball player than Cartier Martin.

I thought it was pretty clear last year that Alonzo Gee was a better basketball player than Al Thornton. But somehow because of rep, former draft status & raw athleticism, we tend to value a guy like Thornton a lot more.

I also have never advocated that this one incident in itself should ever be used as a total indictment on EG the GM/President. However, for me personally, I view EG's past mistakes and already failed run with this franchise and see this incident as just small part of a troubling trend in his lack of attention to detail. I have a hard time simply wiping the slate clean and giving EG a free pass with his 2nd go-around in rebuilding this franchise. Not that i don't like the pieces this team has so far, I just have a funny feeling in the pit of my stomach as to what the end product will look like in the future (and the bloated salaries he'll saddle this franchise with yet again).

This is where I'm at as well. I've never said EG wasn't capable of making a good move here or there or that he couldn't eventually build a competitive team (like the one we had where we made the playoffs 4 years in a row). But I'm absolutely certain if Leonsis is serious about building a contender, a team that could eventually compete for a title, Ernie is not the man for the job. There's 10+ years of evidence to back this up.

In basketball being average, passable or competent at one's job does not usually mean unequivocal success or being able to reach an ultimate goal. It means that generally there will be some moments where there might be some optimism or a fleeting hint success with the inevitably bitter taste of disappointment in the distant horizon.

[Ruzious]

Are you certain that Ernie did not offer Gee a contract for the remainder of the season before his 2nd 10-day expired?

I ask, because I know the guys in the front office well enough to know that it would be extraordinary for them to overlook something like this.

My guess -- without talking to anyone about it -- is that while Gee was on his 2nd 10-day, the Spurs approached Gee's agent and said they'd be interested in signing him. The Wizards also offered him a deal for the remainder of the season. But, the chance to get guaranteed money and go back to the Spurs (he'd already been to training camp with the Spurs, and had played for the Spurs D-League team) was attractive so he left.

Now that the Spurs have cut him loose, the Wizards are looking better.

It is possible for a player to sign somewhere else without it being caused by gross incompetence by the Wizards front office. Or maybe they should have made Gee an offer he couldn't refuse.

I can see Ernie now, "Alonzo, either your signature or your brains will be on this contract."

It's a comforting feeling knowing there's one poster here who has perspective... besides me, of course.

And again... I'm talking as someone who called for EG's firing.

[nate33]

This is where I'm at as well. I've never said EG wasn't capable of making a good move here or there or that he couldn't eventually build a competitive team (like the one we had where we made the playoffs 4 years in a row). But I'm absolutely certain if Leonsis is serious about building a contender, a team that could eventually compete for a title, Ernie is not the man for the job. There's 10+ years of evidence to back this up.

I agree that EG is a "competent" GM rather than an elite one. But I disagree with your assertion that competency is insufficient to build a championship. I think competency plus luck is all it takes. Sure, having one of the two or three "elite" GM's would be better, but EG is good enough.

[P'Oed]

Can I start calling him ZoGee the Bear? (yes, I know it's pronounced "G")

[AceDegenerate]

This is where I'm at as well. I've never said EG wasn't capable of making a good move here or there or that he couldn't eventually build a competitive team (like the one we had where we made the playoffs 4 years in a row). But I'm absolutely certain if Leonsis is serious about building a contender, a team that could eventually compete for a title, Ernie is not the man for the job. There's 10+ years of evidence to back this up.

I agree that EG is a "competent" GM rather than an elite one. But I disagree with your assertion that competency is insufficient to build a championship. I think competency plus luck is all it takes. Sure, having one of the two or three "elite" GM's would be better, but EG is good enough.

Complete BS. Require 100% and perfection from the players but let's just strive for competency in management. Complete joke.

Competent GM's will get you no further than Competent Players.

You contradict yourself so much it's not even funny anymore. You require a perfect cap situation, perfect young players, perfect system but management only needs to be competent.

Players have to be choir-boys in the locker room, unless their name is Brendan Haywood. Bogus.

[nate33]

Complete BS. Require 100% and perfection from the players but let's just strive for competency in management. Complete joke.

Competent GM's will get you no further than Competent Players.

You contradict yourself so much it's not even funny anymore. You require a perfect cap situation, perfect young players, perfect system but management only needs to be competent.

Players have to be choir-boys in the locker room, unless their name is Brendan Haywood. Bogus.

Here we go again.

Where do you get this idea that I demand choir boys in the locker room? I've steadfastly backed a patient approach with respect to locker room flakes Blatche and Young. I was in favor of moving choir boys Jamison and Butler. I advocated patience for McGee, who has been a clueless basketball idiot for two years until finally starting to figure things out.

I'm in favor of talent and youth. That's what a rebuilding team needs.

Are you Gilbert Arenas' cousin or something? Why do you take things so personally when I point out that he is paid a lot more than what he is worth on the basketball court? (Something I haven't even talked about in quite some time, I might add.) I wish you'd stop suggesting that I have a problem with Arenas' locker room demeanor. I have NEVER indicated that I do and I have consistently defended him. Arenas has a great work ethic and is making a genuine effort to give the team exactly what he thinks Flip wants him to provide. My ONLY problems with Arenas are that he is 29 years old, he plays the PG position, and he is paid $20M a year. It's not his fault. It just makes him a bad fit on a rebuilding team that happens to have drafted the most physcially talented PG we've seen in a decade.

But I don't know why I waste my time with you. You are impervious to logic and reason.

[Dat2U]

This is where I'm at as well. I've never said EG wasn't capable of making a good move here or there or that he couldn't eventually build a competitive team (like the one we had where we made the playoffs 4 years in a row). But I'm absolutely certain if Leonsis is serious about building a contender, a team that could eventually compete for a title, Ernie is not the man for the job. There's 10+ years of evidence to back this up.

I agree that EG is a "competent" GM rather than an elite one. But I disagree with your assertion that competency is insufficient to build a championship. I think competency plus luck is all it takes. Sure, having one of the two or three "elite" GM's would be better, but EG is good enough.

Of course luck does play the role. But I disagree that being merely competent & lucky is going to allow one to achieve greatness. I think the Lakers & Celtics dominating the NBA decade after decade is more than just luck. I think the Clippers & us remaining sucky for the better part of three decades is more than just bad luck.

Like in any field or profession, the cream rises to the top. Again & again. Mediocrity simply does not breed long term success.

[closg00]

Thoughts on how Gee has been playing so-far the 2nd time around?, do you like him over Martin in the rotation? Gee offers us toughness & rebounding at the SF spot, but this time around he appears to be more of a slasher. During the call-ups with us last year, Gee was a pretty-good 3-point shooter.

[Illuminaire]

I personally think Gee brings exactly what we need, a super-scrappy energy player who will leap into mobs of opposing players to go after rebounds and loose balls, and who can really run on the fast break.

The guy fights hard on offense and defense, and we tend to be weak on fight. His ball skills and shooting desperately need to improve, but I love seeing him fly around the court. I think he makes it completely unecessary to resign Howard after this season, and puts us in a good position to try swapping Howard off to a contender for a crappy pick or obscure foriegn somebody.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

I love Gee's energy and scrappiness on defense. He's averaging 2.5 steals per game in a Wizards uniform this season and the steals are mostly from stripping the man he's guarding or poking the ball loose, meaning that he's not gambling in passing lanes that much. We haven't seen him take too many jumpers this season (I was unable to watch the Blazers game so I don't know what happened there) so his shot is a bit of a question mark for me. Overall, I love his play and would like to see him stick around.

[closg00]

Gee went from Flip-fave to bench warmer, I suppose it's because he doesn't shoot.

[cwb3]

I am disappointed, I thought for sure he'd have us on top of our division by now!

[hands11]

I am disappointed, I thought for sure he'd have us on top of our division by now!

Well with pieces coming and going each game it is hard to know what our line ups are anymore.

At least Flip made a comment about FIAT no longer being a game time decision. Looks like he is likely to miss a few more games in a row and even when he comes back, I wouldn't be surprised if he played only 20 minutes for a little while until they can figure out if he can stay healthy. Probably off the bench I would guess.

Looks like they have been giving AT a look recently since he got healthy. Problem is, he hasn't been very consistent with that opportunity.