The Pacers rebuild... doing it the other way

[Tommy Sneakers]

I have always hated the Portland/OKC way of rebuilding. It really sucks being a fan of a terrible team whose only goal is to collect draft picks. Not to mention that it is usually not very effective. It is certainly not the "right way" to rebuild like many say.

I guess you can say this was a great way to rebuild for OKC since Seattle did all the tanking for them.

[Nate505]

It's tough to rebuild without high draft picks. Even the Jazz who are masters at getting pieces that fit their system needed a high draft pick to get one of their cornerstones, although they did manage to find two HOFers in the mid teens range years ago.

[Nom De Guerre]

Instead they concentrated on CULTURE and getting the WHITE type of players,

fixed.

Are you implying white players aren't talented?

[darth_federer]

Wait, didnt Lance Stephenson push his pregnant girlfriend down the stairs? I thought he was waived.

[Hoopalotta]

Personally, I like the Pacers position and you have to give credit for what's been achieved with the mid round picks there.

But the main thing is that there's some good young players on the roster AND they have a load of cap space opening up. That convergence ups the ceiling quite a bit, but it's a rather nice feel-good story they've got going and their best players are real professionals.

Count me as a big fan of the Hibbenought as well - he's nipping at the heels of the better centers in the league and could indeed become a first option with more polish on his post game. A real throwback guy who can set the table for your halfcourt offense.

But the real question is, what is going to be achieved with the cap space? Best case and worst case there is a pretty big fork in the roads as far as future prospects.

[Draft Master J]

They'll probably get the 7th or 8th seed with around 41 wins. But is that really a position you want to celebrate being in as a team?

As opposed to still scraping the bottom of the NBA barrel hoping your next top-five draft pick is the one who finally turns things around? It's called gradual progression and it's what nearly all teams go through on their way back up. 40-something wins and a low playoff seed one year. Build on that and aim for 50 wins and a mid-to-high playoff seed the next*. Hopefully by year three you've developed enough to be a legit challenger.

Anyways, Indy is now 7-6 despite playing a tough schedule. That's fine by me. Hibbert and Collison should only get better, and the team should improve with them. Another important point: We've got level-headed, mature guys who can and should develop good chemistry. We're not headcase central like some of these other young teams. We also have the pieces to fill in the holes, either via trade(s) or with our 2010 capspace. The goal is to build a 2000's Detroit-like team; no big superstars, but talented, intelligent, hard-nosed players at every position. I think we're well on our way to doing that.

Probably 90% of Pacer fans were down on Larry Bird and David Morway, calling for their heads. They've proven us wrong. They deserve respect for doing things the righteous way.



*That is unless you're the Milwaukee Bucks, in which case you expose yourselves as one-year wonders by immediately going back to being an NBA doormat.

[jowglenn]

Instead they concentrated on CULTURE and getting the WHITE type of players,

fixed.

Hahahaha.

We have 4 white players on our roster. Our starting PG, SF, C are black, and Rush will soon be our starting SG. We traded a white guy for 2 black guys over the summer. We drafted black guys.

We are **** sick of all the white jokes. They're not funny, nor are they original. **** off.

Most of the Pacers guys will start to be on the downside of their careers in 3 years,

Guy that said that, you have no idea what you're talking about. Really? They'll be on the downside of their careers? When Granger is 30, and Hibbert, Rush, Collison, Hansbrough, George are all still 27 or under? You lose all credibility with a statement like that.

[boogydown]

Its harder to win the way the Pacers did it, but it can be done. It takes very good planning and you need to draft good.

Pacers though aren't that good of a drafting team.

[D-Rock]

Hey now, Sacramento foundered in declining mediocrity for 4-5 years with their "rebuild on the fly" strategy. Look how far that got them? Finally they blew it all up by getting rid of their aging, over-paid, under-achieving vets and that got them Tyreke Evans. Tyreke at the 4th spot was the worst possible pick they could have got, BTW.

[jowglenn]

Its harder to win the way the Pacers did it, but it can be done. It takes very good planning and you need to draft good.

Pacers though aren't that good of a drafting team.

I will give you that to some degree. We drafted Shawne Williams a few years ago (when we could have had RONDO) and Hansbrough, I feel, was a bad choice when we could have taken collison, holiday, lawson. Turns out to be not so bad, really, since we got collison in the end anyway.

But taking mid-round picks and getting Granger and Hibbert out of them is not really bad drafting. Some people above are like, "Aw, pacers got lucky in the draft, man."

Well, why didn't any of the teams picking before them get lucky? Oh, that's right, they were picking guys like Yaroslav Korolev and Sean May. I mean, look at some of the guys taken before Granger, it's hilarious. That was really a pretty bad draft. So maybe it was luck that we got Granger, but it's also because at least 10 teams made bad picks before us. So we're at least a better-drafting team than those 10 teams, right?

[sisibilio]

Darren Collision (good starting young PG, could get better) or not
Brandon Rush (defensive 3pt shooter)
Danny Granger (all-star SF)
Psycho T (always room for someone who plays hard)
Roy Hibbert (future all-star, playing like a franchise C this season)

Overrating too much?
Collison might get better or not, honestly i don't think he's got much room for improvement.
Rush and Hansbrough are just role players, borderline starters at best, and Granger is as much all star SF as Mo Williams is all-star PG, circunstancial.

Memphis, team that you dismiss, has as good or better players in every position, even though some of them might not be the best fit.
Conley = Collison
Mayo > Rush
Gay > Granger
Randolph > McBob or Hanswhatever
Gasol > Hibbert

Heck, i'd even take Darrell Arthur over any of the PFs of Indiana.
And they've got Greivis Vasquez, Xavier Henry or Tony Allen coming off the bench, the only position they lack a reliable backup is center unless Thabeet somehow starts resembling a basketball player and not a drunk crane.

[farzi]

They're improving, yes, but they're still in a (semi) bad position. They're setting them selves up to be perennial 1st - 2nd round exits at best unfortunately. They need to get another Granger type pick in the teens to be set, and those aren't really common

[Green Backpack]

That's the problem as most have said.. yes they've won 35/35/36 games or whatever over the seasons... but this season will likely be no different.

[daschysta]

we'll see. The defense now that murphy is gone is night and day. By most statistical measures we're about a top 5 team defensively this year. Defense is consistant.

We'll be in the playoffs as a young team.

[LUKE23]

Anyways, Indy is now 7-6 despite playing a tough schedule.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerr ... 2/sort/sos

http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

They've played one of the easiest schedules in the league.

[dookieguy]

They're alright. They blew out the Heat and the Nuggets.

If they perform consistently, they'll probably make the playoffs.

[Draft Master J]

That's the problem as most have said.. yes they've won 35/35/36 games or whatever over the seasons... but this season will likely be no different.

A month into the season and they're on pace to win 44-games and are currently the 5th seed in the East. Maybe it's a fluke, but I doubt it. I think they're just a better team this year. Granger's his usual self, Hibbert has stepped up big time, they've got a nice one-two punch at point (Collison and Ford) and they're actually getting defense at power forward with McBob and Psycho T. They may not finish as the 5th seed, but I think they're a legit playoff team.

[No Offense]

This team looks way better than they did last year. They clearly are not a contender, but they play well together. I would be very surprised if they do not make the playoffs this year.

[no dice]

i also like the fact that their players seem to be hard working guys who concentrate on basketball, rather than all the glamor bs. they sorta gives me a vibe that they are built as if they are a college team.

[Lionel Messi]

Yeah but TJ's never been that great at passing anyway so...

He actually always was very good at penetrating and had great vision. He averaged 8apg on the Raptors in 30mpg.