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Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#761 » by Benjammin » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:30 pm

verbal8 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Blatche for Harden? Sheesh, I thought you were a big Blatche supporter. I like Harden, and yes - he can be an 18 PPG scorer at the 2, but he's short on versatility and is an easily replacable kind of player. Blatche is still a talent; isn't he - and a guy who can play either PF or C. If we trade him, we need to increase our talent level; not decrease it. Do you want Harden just because he fits a role? If so, that's not the way to go right now for the Wiz. A good GM can always find a solid 2 without giving up much.

Fair enough. Giving up Blatche may be too much to sacrifice. What about Yi and our 2011 1st (top 7 protected for one season).

I don't want to reach for Harden, so you are right that we shouldn't include Blatche. I just think he might be a good fit with a chance to surprise on the upside. It only makes sense if Arenas is traded though.


What about Harden and Ibaka for Blatche?

It does leave the Wizards front-court very raw, but it also is an athletic front-court.


I wouldn't begin to suggest that on the Thunder or even general trade board. Apparently Ibaka is seen as some amazing prospect. He actually does have gifts. But they wouldn't deal him straight up for Blatche, much less adding Harden as well.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#762 » by Hoopalotta » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:48 pm

nate33 wrote:I don't think the salary cap situation is quite so hopeless. Remember, regardless of what McGee's actual contract will be in 2012, he's only going to count for, at most, the cost of his cap hold. IIRC, that's just 300% of his 2011 salary, or $7.4M. So our 2012 payroll projects to be just $44.4M with a lineup including: Wall, McGee, Blatche, Arenas, Booker and Seraphin. Throw in a rookie salary for each of the next two seasons and it's about $48M.


But wouldn't you expect an early extension for McGee instead of him and his cap hold heading into restricted free agency? The lesson as of now seems to be "give your guys extensions. I think Rudy Gay wanted $65 million the summer before he signed for $82. Horford and Noah are bellow market value. Admittedly, Portland seems to have overpaid.

I suppose if we worked a contract to where he had 10.5% annual salary increases in there, it could be to where his first year salary is not that far from the $7.2 million dollar cap hold figure, but that makes trouble down the road and probably isn't the way Ted wants to play it (credit card culture, basically).

If we were to plug in a $45-$50 million dollar extension for Javale with flat salaries (like the Horford extension), our 2012 figure would be about $50-51 million.

To me, the real dilemma is whether we should focus on acquiring a big talent in 2012, or should we just take things one season at a time and try to acquire quality players on reasonable contracts as they become available. Should we sign Wilson Chandler and extend Nick Young this offseason and go into next year with the same basic lineup but with slightly better fits at swing man? Or do we stick with Cartier Martin and Alonzo Gee on one year contracts and keep our powder dry until 2012?


Yeah, that is amongst the most pertinent questions that they'll have to sort out and there's a few variables there to be sure. This next upcoming signing period is richer in wings (particularly small forwards) than the next year over, especially if we're talking about guys who can be realistically acquired (New York cannot match on Chandler, for example). The 2008 free agent market has some nice players and they'll be available in the summer of 2012.

All told, I think the case for maintaining the cap space and not signing someone right after the lockout (Chandler) would have more to do with flexibility for either one of those 'disgruntled superstar' trades or if a BOYD deal falls into our laps. As far as signings, I'd expect we could do as well in the immediate post lockout signing period as we could in 2012.

If we can trade Arenas for any crappy contracts that expire in 2012, it would sure give us a golden opportunity to make a huge splash.


I actually have an idea, except that it's hamstrung by the CBA uncertainty and is fairly ugly and expensive.

Long story short, trade Gil for Baron Davis and have Davis exercise the ETO on his 2013 salary in exchange for a Nick Collison like signing bonus in 2012 (Larry Coon says the timing on exercising depends on the language in each individual contract). Waive Baron before the start of the 2012 season and he's got two year's of free agency to recoup any dollar differences.

The problem is all that would be worked out under the new CBA, so it probably won't work, especially if they lower the max salary threshold.

It's highly unlikely, but the best scenario to me is if Sacramento decides that they're dysfunctional (they are) and that Gil could help their chemistry (the national media would laugh, but I think most everyone here would disagree). Beno and Garcia aren't bad and, at worst, you could probably trade Beno for James Posey, who expires a year earlier. But it's unlikely that a team like the Kings commits to a big salary right before the CBA.

But it's not going to be easy to move Gil's deal. I'm even thinking that the "playoff contender makes a push" scenario is starting to sound precarious just because most genuine contenders already have so much money committed. Detroit, Toronto and the Clips are looking more likely to me. Unless a miracle happens and Carmelo says something like "I'll sign an extension in Denver, but get me Gilbert Arenas!"
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#763 » by Hoopalotta » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:52 pm

Benjammin wrote:
verbal8 wrote:
What about Harden and Ibaka for Blatche?

It does leave the Wizards front-court very raw, but it also is an athletic front-court.


I wouldn't begin to suggest that on the Thunder or even general trade board. Apparently Ibaka is seen as some amazing prospect. He actually does have gifts. But they wouldn't deal him straight up for Blatche, much less adding Harden as well.


Yeah, that would get fire bombed. Ibaka's a defensive player with a PER of about 20, so he's their power forward of the future and untouchable in anything but a consolidation trade for a superstar.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#764 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:54 am

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Blatche for Harden? Sheesh, I thought you were a big Blatche supporter. I like Harden, and yes - he can be an 18 PPG scorer at the 2, but he's short on versatility and is an easily replacable kind of player. Blatche is still a talent; isn't he - and a guy who can play either PF or C. If we trade him, we need to increase our talent level; not decrease it. Do you want Harden just because he fits a role? If so, that's not the way to go right now for the Wiz. A good GM can always find a solid 2 without giving up much.

Fair enough. Giving up Blatche may be too much to sacrifice. What about Yi and our 2011 1st (top 7 protected for one season).

I don't want to reach for Harden, so you are right that we shouldn't include Blatche. I just think he might be a good fit with a chance to surprise on the upside. It only makes sense if Arenas is traded though.

Yeah, except I don't think I'd only go as far as top 10 protected. It might make sense for both teams to make it Young instead of Yi.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#765 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:00 am

mhd wrote:No way, Ruz. Henderson CANNOT shoot. With Wall at the PG, we need shooters and slashers. Young is a better defender than Henderson IMO too. Young's taller, has the better wingspan, and has more NBA expierence.

Fair enough about Henderson not being the answer, but Young just is not very good - even with all the physical tools, a good jump shot, and 1 on 1 defensive ability.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#766 » by The Fax » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:06 am

I'm a little interested in a Gilbert-Mayo swap. Haven't looked at salary ramifications and etc...but anyone got a scoop on the possibilities, or is OJ an untouchable in Memphis? I know he's not too happy about being delegated to the bench for Xavier Henry.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#767 » by willbcocks » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:19 am

I wouldn't give up on a high pick yet fellas. We're still 29th in Hollinger's rankings, and even if you don't put much stock into them or you just think we have the best shot among the low teams of improving, you can't argue with the fact that we haven't won a game on the road or against a team with a winning record. Philly also gifted us two games. I think we are playing like a 20 win team, just happen to have a 30 win team's record.

Also, the NBA is full of bad teams but not historically bad teams. I think you'll see 7-8 teams with 25-30 wins.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#768 » by Hoopalotta » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:22 am

willbcocks wrote:I wouldn't give up on a high pick yet fellas. We're still 29th in Hollinger's rankings, and even if you don't put much stock into them or you just think we have the best shot among the low teams of improving, you can't argue with the fact that we haven't won a game on the road or against a team with a winning record. Philly also gifted us two games. I think we are playing like a 20 win team, just happen to have a 30 win team's record.

Also, the NBA is full of bad teams but not historically bad teams. I think you'll see 7-8 teams with 25-30 wins.


Yeah, I agree it is possible; I was just responding to Dat's premise of "if we're not looking at a top pick". Our scoring differential is bottom 3 with a pair of miracles separating us from 3-11, so our problems go well beyond inserting Josh Howard into the lineup. But I would not really feel comfortable projecting the bottom of the East, as a most striking hint of hind wafts outwards from many quarters.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#769 » by Illuminaire » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:42 am

The eternal optimist suggests that four of our best five players have had their playing time (and quality) limited by injury, so if our basement is a 20-win team, our ceiling could be quite a bit higher. Said optimist could theoretically follow that point up by asserting how young our team is, and how both marginal rotation players and key rookies are likely to improve as the season progresses, thus improving our record even more.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#770 » by dangermouse » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:34 am

straight swap of Yi for Brandon Wright?
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NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#771 » by Hoopalotta » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:54 am

Sounds like Reggie Evans broke his foot. Bad news for him, our draft prospects and Ruz's fantasy team.

But trouble on the boards in T-Dot? I think we might just have the remedyi for that.....

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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#772 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:48 pm

Hehe, I think Toronto is beyond hope. You can call them the Toronto Toast. Evans was their only semblance of toughness up front. I'd be surprised if they win 10 more games this season.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#773 » by nuposse04 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:40 am

you think Sacramento would bite on a Kirk+2nd+cash for thompson? I'd throw in neck too if at all possible.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#774 » by Diop » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:10 am

Would Jax, Diaw and Diop for Arena's and Yi interest yous at all?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#775 » by Hoopalotta » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:21 am

Sachmo wrote:Would Jax, Diaw and Diop for Arena's and Yi interest yous at all?


We'd need to find a third team to take JAX and kick back expirings or something like that.

Most here wouldn't do it, but contingent on the above, I'd bite. Does Diaw take his 2012 option, in your estimation? Either way, Diop is the punitive fiscal holdover that lasts longer than is ideal, which isn't great, but it's hardly fisticuffs either.

Armstrong is also available to help fill out your front court rotation. :P
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#776 » by Diop » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:28 am

Diaw will likely take his option. But they are all still cheaper than Gilbert.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#777 » by nate33 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:06 am

Sachmo wrote:Diaw will likely take his option. But they are all still cheaper than Gilbert.

Not by much. SJax is owed $27.5M over the next 3 years; Diop is owed $21M over the next 3 years; Diaw is owed $18M over the next 2 years. That's a total $66M over the next 3 years. I'd rather just pay Arenas $80M over the next 4 years.

I'd consider SJax + Diaw for Arenas, but you can forget about the Yi for Diop part.

If push came to shove, I might be talked into Diop + Diaw + Najera for Arenas. The Wizards get garbage back, but at least they unload $35M of Arenas' salary. It's pretty salary neutral over the next two years, but instead of paying Arenas $21M and $22M in Years 3 and 4 respectively, they pay Diop $7M in Year 3 and there are no salary obligations in Year 4.

Don't get me wrong. I don't love the idea. But it's the minimum salary savings necessary to even make me consider it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#778 » by nate33 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:23 pm

I'm thinking now might be the time to shop Hinrich.

With Arenas and Wall taking turns in street clothes, Hinrich has averaged almost 36 minutes per game with a terrific ORtg of 118 (albiet with just 11 points per game). I figure his production is at a peak right now with nowhere to go but down. Meanwhile, it looks like Young has played his way into deserving 25-30 minutes a game or more.

If we trade Hinrich for an expiring contract, the payroll next year would be just $36M. That's huge cap room. There aren't many targets to spend it on, however.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#779 » by fishercob » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:29 pm

nate33 wrote:
If we trade Hinrich for an expiring contract, the payroll next year would be just $36M. That's huge cap room. There aren't many targets to spend it on, however.


No, but it does open up more potential BOYD possibilities and general opportunities to be...er....opportunistic.

Trouble is, who would want Kirk for expirings?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIV 

Post#780 » by verbal8 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:25 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm thinking now might be the time to shop Hinrich.

With Arenas and Wall taking turns in street clothes, Hinrich has averaged almost 36 minutes per game with a terrific ORtg of 118 (albiet with just 11 points per game). I figure his production is at a peak right now with nowhere to go but down. Meanwhile, it looks like Young has played his way into deserving 25-30 minutes a game or more.

If we trade Hinrich for an expiring contract, the payroll next year would be just $36M. That's huge cap room. There aren't many targets to spend it on, however.


I wonder if Indiana would have interest with something around TJ Ford. The Wizards probably take on more money this year(probably the corpse of Jeff Foster). I think Hinrich might be a better fit in Indy because they could play him along side Collison at SG in a small backcourt, or at PG along side Rush or Dunleavy for a bigger backcourt.

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