Do you see Jefferson turning into an elite big man?

kd35sneighbor · Post #1 » by **kd35sneighbor** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:19 pm

Or Millsap?

Only Jordan has a won a title without a great big man(Grant). Every other team that has won has had a great big man.

Celtics (Mchale, Russell, Cowens, KG etc)
LA Lakers (Shaq, Gasol+Bynum, Jabbar, Chamberlain)
M. Lakers (Miken)
Bulls 2nd 3-peat (Rodman)
Pistons (Rodman, Laimbeer, Wallaces)
Spurs (Robinson, Duncan)
Rockets (Olajuwon)
Bucks (Jabbar)
76ers
Knicks
Blazers
St Louis
etc

Do you guys see Jefferson or Millsap turning into a Shaq or Gasol type player? That's what we need if we want to begin dreaming about being true contenders...

Boozer was close, but he didn't push himself to another level. (Which is why I think the Bulls will never win a ring with him)

If Jefferson/Millsap can evolve their game, the ring is only up for grabs for the following teams: Celtics, Lakers, Spurs. I didn't include the Magic because while having a great big man is a MUST to win championship, you also need to have another go-to guy on your team.

All championship teams must have at least two superstars. No ifs, or buts.

Ming Kong! · Post #2 » by **Ming Kong!** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:50 pm

There are tons of bigs that never wonkl that were greater than many of those you put up...

Malone
Ewing
Barkley

That's just for starters

kd35sneighbor · Post #3 » by **kd35sneighbor** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:04 pm

Ming Kong! wrote:There are tons of bigs that never wonkl that were greater than many of those you put up...

Malone
Ewing
Barkley

That's just for starters

I'm not saying having an elite big man is the ONLY necessity. I'm saying that's what we need at this point to push us over the top. Put Malone, Ewing, Barkley, or any of the big man on this current Jazz team and we win a ring. Jefferson/Millsap aren't quite there yet.

HolyToledo · Post #4 » by **HolyToledo** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:56 pm

I like the fact that he wants to be here and is improving with each game. The Jazz bigs are good enough to win it all. Whether the Jazz win it all or not depends on whether AK-47, Raja, and Miles can continue to hit the open outside shot, especially in clutch playoff situations.

erudite23 · Post #5 » by **erudite23** » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:14 pm

Jefferson AND Millsap are already better overall players than some of those guys on the list (particularly Rasheed Wallace, and probably even Ben Wallace). If Utah won this year, either or both of them would be painted as "great" in retrospect because, well, they won a championship! The only thing holding Jefferson back from vaulting into that 2nd tier of elite big guys is his rebounding and his cohesion with DWill. Having a low post center that makes 85% of his FTs is a big freakin deal, and that adds a new dimension to his game that very, very few can boast. As he becomes acclimated and starts forcing teams to foul him rather than let him have high % shots at the rim, you'll see that play a bigger role in things.

However, I don't think either of those guys can be HOF players...which is really what we're talking about here. If the Jazz want to win a championship, they're gonna have to do it on the back of Deron Williams and with a complete team effort. They have the horses 2-8 to do it. This is one of the most well rounded teams in the league, with excellent players at every position and a diverse set of skills that they bring to the table. With Memo back, and if Hayward starts to figure it out, we'll be tough to beat. That's what this team has really been lacking in the early going: a 3rd legit big guy and another swingman to mix up our looks. Hayward and Okur represent those two things. Hopefully Memo will help with the rebounding (he's a much better positional rebounder than Millsap on the defensive end) and we can get that FG% back to where we're used to having it. IF that can happen, we can win 60 games.

MeestR · Post #6 » by **MeestR** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:21 am

i think with the play of millsap so far this season, growing into the mold charles barkley (the player) isn't out of the realm of possibility.

big al can do it too (elite level). all he needs is to get to know the system so well, he doesn't think about it anymore. but he's got the size, speed and teh skillz.

kingly222 · Post #7 » by **kingly222** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:12 pm

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kingly222 · Post #8 » by **kingly222** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:13 pm

Yes, fans are seriously underrating Big Al . Sure he has his flaws, but who doesn't? He is a tough player to evaluate, but he is very effective and keeps coming and coming and never backs down.

Al has always been a better finisher than starter so by the end of the year I expect gaudy numbers for him and more success for the jazz.

Post #9 » by **loserX** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:32 pm

Rodman was neither a "great" big man nor a "second superstar". He was just a perfect fit for the teams he played on with his defence and rebounding (both of which were excellent).

All championship teams must have at least two superstars. No ifs, or buts.

It's debatable whether the recent Pistons champion teams even had one superstar. So it's not all that cut-and-dried.

Will Jefferson or Millsap become a prime Shaq or Gasol? No, probably never. The Jazz will have to hope Okur comes back strong and then use him in a very deep power rotation.

carrottop12 · Post #10 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:34 pm

Al's offensive game is still developing, people have to realize that he is still only 25 years old. He's also never played with a capable PG which will allow him to take his game to a whole new level. While a big man who doesn't play with a good PG has to develop his own low post skills (which Al has developed with his footwork) he won't develop his mid range game until he's played with a good PG that can give him open jump shots in the 2 man game.

Karl Malone developed his jumper because of the pick and pop, but it took him quite a few years to develop it. Jefferson already has a very strong jump shot, and it is only going to get better with the help of Deron Williams. It is scary to think that in addition to Al's terrific back to the basket game, he still has offensive potential that is completely untapped.

Also, we have to realize that he hasn't entered the defensive period of his game yet either. Young players rarely play defense, but you find players that have been in the league 7-10 years start to become far better defenders, especially big men who aren't as reliant on their speed for defense as wing defenders. In a few years, you will see Al become a better defender, and with his physical tools i.e. his big body, his strength and this length he has a chance to be a very good defender which every championship team needs. You hear Amare talk about how he was never taught defense, coming out of high school straight to the pro's this is not surprising, and the same rules apply to Al. He will learn defense on this team, and I can't wait to watch him develop.

I really don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but this team has great potential if we can keep the core intact. We have a lot of the right pieces, and could be coming into our own at the right time with Kobe and Duncan on their way out.

kd35sneighbor · Post #11 » by **kd35sneighbor** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:11 am

loserX wrote:Rodman was neither a "great" big man nor a "second superstar". He was just a perfect fit for the teams he played on with his defence and rebounding (both of which were excellent).

All championship teams must have at least two superstars. No ifs, or buts.

It's debatable whether the recent Pistons champion teams even had one superstar. So it's not all that cut-and-dried.

Will Jefferson or Millsap become a prime Shaq or Gasol? No, probably never. The Jazz will have to hope Okur comes back strong and then use him in a very deep power rotation.

That was ONE time out of 999 other times.