Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[fishercob]

Interesting, verbal. Might be a tough call for Indy since they seem to value that financial flexibility going forward. At the same time, the East is pretty open and Hinrich could help push them up a rung.

[rsavaj]

Really random idea that some Suns posters keep mentioning. I think it's bizarre but wanted to see your take on it:

Hedo and J-Rich for Gilbert and McGee.

[MJG]

I think many people from outside the area greatly overestimate how much we want to dump Arenas.

[Benjammin]

Really random idea that some Suns posters keep mentioning. I think it's bizarre but wanted to see your take on it:

Hedo and J-Rich for Gilbert and McGee.

Torches and pitchforks would be the response of a lot of Wizards fans. They don't have to dump Gil, and they're certainly not going to use McGee to do so.

[nate33]

Really random idea that some Suns posters keep mentioning. I think it's bizarre but wanted to see your take on it:

Hedo and J-Rich for Gilbert and McGee.

Torches and pitchforks would be the response of a lot of Wizards fans. They don't have to dump Gil, and they're certainly not going to use McGee to do so.

Especially when this "dump" involves the Wizards taking back $60M in salary. Sorry, the Wizards aren't going to give up McGee and Gil just to save $20M in 2014. It's laughably bad. I wouldn't do it even if we didn't have to include McGee. THAT'S how bad it is.

[rsavaj]

Really random idea that some Suns posters keep mentioning. I think it's bizarre but wanted to see your take on it:

Hedo and J-Rich for Gilbert and McGee.

Torches and pitchforks would be the response of a lot of Wizards fans. They don't have to dump Gil, and they're certainly not going to use McGee to do so.

Especially when this "dump" involves the Wizards taking back $60M in salary. Sorry, the Wizards aren't going to give up McGee and Gil just to save $20M in 2014. It's laughably bad. I wouldn't do it even if we didn't have to include McGee. THAT'S how bad it is.

Expected as much.

Yep, truly bizarre.

[MDStar]

As a person who has always said that I believe that Wall and Arenas can play together, Im starting to think that its not really the case and that I was being a homer. Watching Arenas over the last few games has reminded me of the greatness of Gil's game and I am confident that by the end of the season, that he will be back to being a 25 ppg player. With that being said, I don't think that Wall is a good fit for him. Arenas is a ball dominant player, much like a Kobe, Lebron, Wade (of course not on that level anymore). Those players (IMO) can't play with a ball dominant point guard. Playing with and deferring to Wall has and will continue to dimeminish Gil's game and effectively make him a lesser player.

Of course there are no options im regards to trading him and we certainly don't have better options on the bench, I'm just thinking about the future.

MDStar

[fishercob]

As a person who has always said that I believe that Wall and Arenas can play together, Im starting to think that its not really the case and that I was being a homer. Watching Arenas over the last few games has reminded me of the greatness of Gil's game and I am confident that by the end of the season, that he will be back to being a 25 ppg player. With that being said, I don't think that Wall is a good fit for him. Arenas is a ball dominant player, much like a Kobe, Lebron, Wade (of course not on that level anymore). Those players (IMO) can't play with a ball dominant point guard. Playing with and deferring to Wall has and will continue to dimeminish Gil's game and effectively make him a lesser player.

Of course there are no options im regards to trading him and we certainly don't have better options on the bench, I'm just thinking about the future.

MDStar

I was thinking about this last night actually. It's tough because they've really only played a few games side by side. Let's get them both healthy and give the team time to grow and gel before jumping to conclusions. I'm a homerous Gil-lover too, but I think with a little time he and Wall can play together quite well.

[fishercob]

Interesting stuff from the trade board:

Houston
Incoming: G Kirk Hinrich, C Jason Thompson. SF Omri Casspi
Outgoing: PG Aaron Brooks, F Jared Jefferies, SF Shane Battier
Hinrich/Martin/Casspi/Scola/Thompson
Houston gets better defensively with Hinrich on the perimeter and Thompson guarding the rim and Casspi's shooting will help space the floor and add extra scoring to the wings.

Washington
Incoming: SF Shane Battier, F Jared Jefferies
Outgoing: G Kirk Hinrich, F Yi Jianlian
Wall/Arenas/Battier/Blatche/McGee
Basically a cost saving move by getting Battier's expiring over Hinrich and it frees things up in the backcourt for Wall, Arenas, and Young. Battier will help on the wings and add that veteran leadership to help this young team.

Sacramento
Incoming: PG Aaron Brooks, F Yi Jianlian
Outgoing: C Jason Thompson, SF Omri Casspi
Brooks/Evans/Greene/Landry/Dalembert
Sacramento gets scoring help and ball handling help with Brooks. He's a 20ppg scorer that will help out in the backcourt. Thompson was miscast as a SF so the get Jianlian who can swing between the forward spots and help backup both positions.

Interesting because there was at least some enthusiastic support from all three sides. Would be fantastic for the Wiz, IMO.

[nate33]

As a person who has always said that I believe that Wall and Arenas can play together, Im starting to think that its not really the case and that I was being a homer. Watching Arenas over the last few games has reminded me of the greatness of Gil's game and I am confident that by the end of the season, that he will be back to being a 25 ppg player. With that being said, I don't think that Wall is a good fit for him. Arenas is a ball dominant player, much like a Kobe, Lebron, Wade (of course not on that level anymore). Those players (IMO) can't play with a ball dominant point guard. Playing with and deferring to Wall has and will continue to dimeminish Gil's game and effectively make him a lesser player.

Yup. It's been my concern all along. Arenas can play alongside Wall okay, but it's not ideal. The best we can do is have Gil run point when Wall is out, so at least we get 12 minutes of "PG Gil" plus another 24 minutes of "SG Gil".

The one thing that gives me hope is the fact that Wall has proven to be a pretty decent outside shooter when he has his feet set. He is shooting a respectable 34.5% from 3-point range and has shot 36% over his last 5 games. If Wall can be a consistent shooter from 3-point range, it'll allow he and Gil to trade off as the primary ball handler (to exploit whoever is being guarded by the worst defender). When Gil is handling the ball, Wall can just camp out in the corner and prevent his man from helping out on D.

[AceDegenerate]

People have been jumping to try and trade Gil since January. We get it you all love John Wall because he hasn't committed any crimes yet, cool. The owner has said on numerous occasions that he is not going anywhere for the time-being so let it be.

This has nothing to do with John Wall/Arenas playing together because they haven't yet. They've played in a 3 guard lineup that makes everyone look like ****. Stop trying to judge something that hasn't happened yet, all off-season it was the same cock-sure posters who swear Gil/Wall would fail together who are still having itchy-fingers to post Gil trades.

THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED TOGETHER YET SO IT IS OUTRAGEOUS TO DECLARE THAT THEY CANNOT.

Just like you all like to get your panties in a bunch of anybody gets the littlest bit optimistic around here you need to chill the F down with the Gilbert trades, especially with the idea that he and Wall cannot play together. GIVE IT A CHANCE.

[verbal8]

Interesting stuff from the trade board:

Washington
Incoming: SF Shane Battier, F Jared Jefferies
Outgoing: G Kirk Hinrich, F Yi Jianlian
Wall/Arenas/Battier/Blatche/McGee
Basically a cost saving move by getting Battier's expiring over Hinrich and it frees things up in the backcourt for Wall, Arenas, and Young. Battier will help on the wings and add that veteran leadership to help this young team.

Interesting because there was at least some enthusiastic support from all three sides. Would be fantastic for the Wiz, IMO.

Getting rid of Hinrich's contract obligation next year is a nice plus. I think the versatility of Battier and Jeffries would be a big plus over two who don't really have a true position. Giving up Yi's "potential' is a negative, but it outweighs the positives.

[nate33]

There's only a very small chance that Yi sticks around anyhow.

If Yi plays like suck, we won't resign him. If Yi plays well, somebody more in need of him is likely to offer more than we're willing to pay for a backup PF. Either way, we won't sign him. We may as well reap as much value as we can from him by trading him now.

[MDStar]

People have been jumping to try and trade Gil since January. We get it you all love John Wall because he hasn't committed any crimes yet, cool. The owner has said on numerous occasions that he is not going anywhere for the time-being so let it be.

This has nothing to do with John Wall/Arenas playing together because they haven't yet. They've played in a 3 guard lineup that makes everyone look like ****. Stop trying to judge something that hasn't happened yet, all off-season it was the same cock-sure posters who swear Gil/Wall would fail together who are still having itchy-fingers to post Gil trades.

THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED TOGETHER YET SO IT IS OUTRAGEOUS TO DECLARE THAT THEY CANNOT.

Just like you all like to get your panties in a bunch of anybody gets the littlest bit optimistic around here you need to chill the F down with the Gilbert trades, especially with the idea that he and Wall cannot play together. GIVE IT A CHANCE.

Talking about panties in a bunch! This has nothing to do with crimes or Arenas' history. The fact of the matter is that John Wall is the Point Guard of this team. He should and will have the ball in his hands 80% of the time that he's on the floor. My point is, Gil isn't Ray Allen or Reggie Miller. He needs the ball in his hands 80% of the time for him to be at his top form. That can't happen with Wall. Can this backcourt be ok? Sure. But i don't feel that we are maximizing the potential of each player by having them play together.

[GhostsOfGil]

its not like gil has been running point while wall has been out tho. gil has been playing the 2 even with wall on the bench.

[Dat2U]

I haven't watched as every game in totality so I'll ask this question.

What I've seen of Hinrich is that he likes to dominate the ball in hands as well as Gil & Wall. I've seen him pound the life out of it, much like Antonio Daniels, Earl Boykins & Juan Dixon have for us over the years. And we all say that Arenas can play with Hinrich successfully and we've seen Arenas have success with these other lesser types.

Would playing with John Wall be such of a stretch considering Arenas' success with these other guys? To me it seems like the biggest issue is on court chemistry because they've played so little together. And the fact that Flip's man crush on Hinrich hasn't really allowed Arenas & Wall to flourish together the few occasions that both were healthy at the same time. I thought the 3-guard lineup was an abject disaster because it made BOTH Arenas & Wall passive at the same time while Hinrich seemed to be the only one to play well in that alignment.

I think its just too early to tell IMO. How much actual floor time have Arenas & Wall had without Hinrich?

[nate33]

It's possible that Wall and Arenas can co-exist, but I think it's critical that Wall hone his jumper first. Arenas was able to play alongside the poor-shooting Antonio Daniels because we had a PF at the time who could shoot like a shooting guard. Jamison provided that floor spacing that Daniels could not. We no longer have that kind of dynamic. Blatche can shoot, but he doesn't have Jamison's range or quick release. Gil can't penetrate the lane if the opposition can cheat off of Wall, McGee and to a lesser extent, Blatche.

If Wall can't knock them down from the perimeter with consistency, then he has to be the exclusive ball-handler and Arenas is relegated to a catch-and-shoot player in the Ray Allen mold. Arenas can do that, but it's not the best way to maximize his talent.

[dlts20]

It's possible that Wall and Arenas can co-exist, but I think it's critical that Wall hone his jumper first. Arenas was able to play alongside the poor-shooting Antonio Daniels because we had a PF at the time who could shoot like a shooting guard. Jamison provided that floor spacing that Daniels could not. We no longer have that kind of dynamic. Blatche can shoot, but he doesn't have Jamison's range or quick release. Gil can't penetrate the lane if the opposition can cheat off of Wall, McGee and to a lesser extent, Blatche.

If Wall can't knock them down from the perimeter with consistency, then he has to be the exclusive ball-handler and Arenas is relegated to a catch-and-shoot player in the Ray Allen mold. Arenas can do that, but it's not the best way to maximize his talent.

I still dont know if thats the case just yet. I would still hold my Gil-Wall judgement until they can start 1 game together with Hinrich on the bench because I still think that is a big issue along with Gil coming off the bench earlier & being rusty while Wall was hurt later & coming off the bench. We have to start them with Kirk sitting to get the real answer of how they play together

[nate33]

In other news, Portland just benched Nicholas Batum in favor of Wesley Matthews. I would LOVE to get Batum on this roster. He's young, athletic, can shoot threes, defend, and he doesn't need the ball to be effective. Of all players in the league, I think he's the best fit at starting SF.

If Matthews is successful at starting SF, I wonder if Portland would entertain trading Batum. Could we give them our first round pick (assuming it's in the 6-8 range or so) straight up for Batum? Portland would be sacrificing a sure-fire quality role player for the upside star potential of a mid-lotto pick, while also resetting the clock on his rookie scale contract.

[no D in Hibachi]

Honestly I'd happily do a mid-lotto pick for Batum. However, I still think Portland fans wouldn't trade Batum for Lebron. They are just so ridiculous with their 'young budding stars'.