November Leafs discussions

[hsb]

Kessel with the game winner tonight. Leafs beat a struggling NJ team 3-1.

Kadri with 2 assists, Grabovski and Versteeg with a goal each.

[Crowned]

The board goes quiet after every win, and a huge bash fest after every loss. There's such consistancy here.

[Mike Hunt]

I've barely watched the Leafs this year (5 games) but I thoroughly enjoyed the game yesterday. I do think the team should emphasize quality chances over shots on goal. There were quite a bit of times when the pass was the better option and guys (mostly Kessel but also Grabovsky) opted for a relatively long wrist shot. I hate seeing teams over-passing but it's possible to see guys underpassing. To me, Kessel needs to pass more. He is a predictable guy to defend against (no need to worry about the pass, it's not happening). He's still getting his goals and he'll keep doing so (you shoot 300 times in a season and the stats will show it), but he's reminding me of a much more talented Sergei Berezin who used to score 25-30 goals and still get benched regularly.

[Crowned]

*crickets*

[darth_federer]

Ive watched all the games lately and they re playing well. Gustavsson has a .957 save percentage and if he keeps playing like this, hes going to steal the number one job. The Leafs will always have trouble against teams that play a tight defensive style like Boston and Montreal (they were terrific on Saturday) because they dont have enough skilled guys to make something happen.

Goaltending is definitely a plus for this organization. Rynass is a top 2 goalie in the AHL and was player of the week last week. Scrivens is in the ECHL, but hes highly touted too. Gustavsson looks like a good propsect and Reimer is by no means a slouch. One of these guys is going to become a legit #1 goalie.

They have nice depth on defense too in the majors and the minors.

Right now they re a team thats going to scratch and claw with 3 other teams for that 8th playoff spot. They re a couple of legit top 6 forwards away from being a legit playoff team (5-8 seed.)

They arent as far away as you think.

[Brew666]

The board goes quiet after every win, and a huge bash fest after every loss. There's such consistancy here.

It's b/c the people who want the Leafs to win and succeed aren't here to prove their knowledge when they actually do win, where people who have been saying that Burke is the worst gm, our D is horrible, Schenn is a scrub are waiting for their 'predictions' to come true so that they can rub in our faces that they were right all along. I'm sorta kidding about this...but it's also b/c as someone who thinks the Leafs will finish 9-11 in the east, that I have to wait until the end of the season to see if my predictions were accurate

Too many (Toronto) fans are impatient and are not willing to see things through. We haven't had enough time to truly assess what's working and what's not working or who. This is a young team and inconsistency is one of the biggest attributes of a young team. Though this isn't the most successful of times for the Leafs franchise, they are laying ground work so that we do become a franchise of consistency and not another flash in the pan; and in many ways our franchise probably hasn't been this healthy in years when you do look at our depth in the minors. Other than the Kessel trade (and the verdict is still out on this trade), I've been quite happy with the other moves that Burke has made.

Bit of a rant but I haven't posted on the Leafs forum for a bit b/c I was sick of reading all the negativity from Leaf fans how horrible are team is and I was already hearing enough of that through Toronto media.

slightly OT but does there seem to be any other sports hub that 'enjoys' the pains of its franchises more than Toronto? There just seems to be a lot of self-hating amongst Raps and Leafs fans. We continue to support them both but all you hear about is how horrible they are half the time. BTW, I dont think MLSE has a done good job at all with either franchise but there have been positives to focus on and people just seem to overlook those and focus on the negative.

[Ong_dynasty]

^^^
Philadelphia most probably.
It is sad that I support teams for both cities.!:)

[ghostinthepost]

The board goes quiet after every win, and a huge bash fest after every loss. There's such consistancy here.

It's b/c the people who want the Leafs to win and succeed aren't here to prove their knowledge when they actually do win, where people who have been saying that Burke is the worst gm, our D is horrible, Schenn is a scrub are waiting for their 'predictions' to come true so that they can rub in our faces that they were right all along. I'm sorta kidding about this...but it's also b/c as someone who thinks the Leafs will finish 9-11 in the east, that I have to wait until the end of the season to see if my predictions were accurate

Too many (Toronto) fans are impatient and are not willing to see things through. We haven't had enough time to truly assess what's working and what's not working or who. This is a young team and inconsistency is one of the biggest attributes of a young team. Though this isn't the most successful of times for the Leafs franchise, they are laying ground work so that we do become a franchise of consistency and not another flash in the pan; and in many ways our franchise probably hasn't been this healthy in years when you do look at our depth in the minors. Other than the Kessel trade (and the verdict is still out on this trade), I've been quite happy with the other moves that Burke has made.

Bit of a rant but I haven't posted on the Leafs forum for a bit b/c I was sick of reading all the negativity from Leaf fans how horrible are team is and I was already hearing enough of that through Toronto media.

slightly OT but does there seem to be any other sports hub that 'enjoys' the pains of its franchises more than Toronto? There just seems to be a lot of self-hating amongst Raps and Leafs fans. We continue to support them both but all you hear about is how horrible they are half the time. BTW, I dont think MLSE has a done good job at all with either franchise but there have been positives to focus on and people just seem to overlook those and focus on the negative.

Who is going to be on this team and good in 1-2 years? Do you really think the current players, late round draft picks and free agents are going to make us a good team? The current roster sucks, does your fantasy world have Dion scoring 20 goals again? Komisarek being a fairly priced 2 way defenceman? Kadri an elite player? Kessel having a centreman? Schenn having a role with the other overpaid defensive defencemen. Gustavsson being a number 1? Bozak and Kulemin being anything? Versteeg being a top 3 forward and resigning?

Saying this team is building for the future is incorrect as we have marginal talent that is just getting us through. T

[Brew666]

The board goes quiet after every win, and a huge bash fest after every loss. There's such consistancy here.

It's b/c the people who want the Leafs to win and succeed aren't here to prove their knowledge when they actually do win, where people who have been saying that Burke is the worst gm, our D is horrible, Schenn is a scrub are waiting for their 'predictions' to come true so that they can rub in our faces that they were right all along. I'm sorta kidding about this...but it's also b/c as someone who thinks the Leafs will finish 9-11 in the east, that I have to wait until the end of the season to see if my predictions were accurate

Too many (Toronto) fans are impatient and are not willing to see things through. We haven't had enough time to truly assess what's working and what's not working or who. This is a young team and inconsistency is one of the biggest attributes of a young team. Though this isn't the most successful of times for the Leafs franchise, they are laying ground work so that we do become a franchise of consistency and not another flash in the pan; and in many ways our franchise probably hasn't been this healthy in years when you do look at our depth in the minors. Other than the Kessel trade (and the verdict is still out on this trade), I've been quite happy with the other moves that Burke has made.

Bit of a rant but I haven't posted on the Leafs forum for a bit b/c I was sick of reading all the negativity from Leaf fans how horrible are team is and I was already hearing enough of that through Toronto media.

slightly OT but does there seem to be any other sports hub that 'enjoys' the pains of its franchises more than Toronto? There just seems to be a lot of self-hating amongst Raps and Leafs fans. We continue to support them both but all you hear about is how horrible they are half the time. BTW, I dont think MLSE has a done good job at all with either franchise but there have been positives to focus on and people just seem to overlook those and focus on the negative.

Who is going to be on this team and good in 1-2 years? Do you really think the current players, late round draft picks and free agents are going to make us a good team? The current roster sucks, does your fantasy world have Dion scoring 20 goals again? Komisarek being a fairly priced 2 way defenceman? Kadri an elite player? Kessel having a centreman? Schenn having a role with the other overpaid defensive defencemen. Gustavsson being a number 1? Bozak and Kulemin being anything? Versteeg being a top 3 forward and resigning?

Saying this team is building for the future is incorrect as we have marginal talent that is just getting us through. T

Who is going to be on this team and good in 1-2 years? Do you really think the current players, late round draft picks and free agents are going to make us a good team?

Do you not think it is shortsighted to write off what all Leafs prospects are going to accomplish in 2 years, 3 years, etc? I have no idea how our current prospects are going to turn out to be BUT when this team was run by JFJ, Fletch, Quinn we had ZERO prospects and really nothing to look forward to. NHL is a fairly big crapshoot when it comes to drafting and if you look through the current NHL, it's not filled with first and second rounders there are a ton of quality late rounders to be found. Look at the Red Wings and tell me that late draft picks can't pan out.

current roster sucks, does your fantasy world have Dion scoring 20 goals again? Komisarek being a fairly priced 2 way defenceman? Kadri an elite player? Kessel having a centreman? Schenn having a role with the other overpaid defensive defencemen. Gustavsson being a number 1? Bozak and Kulemin being anything? Versteeg being a top 3 forward and resigning?

As for my fantasy world, I'm not a delusional Leafs fan; I'm pretty grounded when it comes to my expectations but I focus on are the positives rather than the negatives...Phaneuf - was brought in as captain too quickly and most likely won't be a 20+ goal scorer but it doesn't mean that he can't be a quality captain or that he can't improve is all-round game. Everyone in Toronto expects the captain to be the best of the best, an elite at their position but being a leader in the dressing room, on the ice, etc doesn't necessarily mean you are tops in the league at your position or that you can't make a mistake. Look at some of the other captains around the league, Phaneuf is definately not the worst...Komisarek has nothing to do with our future IMO, Kadri will never be Crosby/Stamkos/Ovie elite but he if he reaches his full potential I don't see why he couldn't be a consistent a top 20 point getter in the league...yes we'll get Kessel a centre b/c it's becoming very obvious this year that one of your best forwards have to play centre, they can't all be wingers...so yes I do believe they will eventually find a centre for him...have even watched Schenn play this year? He's hands down there best defensemen at 21 years old and getting over 20 minutes a game...he's getting all the ice time he needs...no idea if Gustavsson will be a number 1 but he could be or Rynnas could be or FA, etc...but lets see what he can or can't do then decide before writing him off.

And yes I absolutely believe this team is building for the future...look at some of our current prospects and the fact that they have the youngest team in the league all indicates that this team is more built for our future than for the current.

My complaint isn't that Leafs fans are underestimating the quality of the current team but the fact that you can complain about all of the above and it doesn't do anything at all. You might as well focus on the positives, no matter how small, and cheer for the team that you can't help but cheer for b/c you wouldn't cheer for them if you had a choice.

[darth_federer]

Im expecting a loss tonight. They always get killed in Buffalo.

[darth_federer]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSFYxDGKy8&feature=related[/youtube]

[whysoserious]

As for my fantasy world, I'm not a delusional Leafs fan; I'm pretty grounded when it comes to my expectations but I focus on are the positives rather than the negatives...Phaneuf - was brought in as captain too quickly and most likely won't be a 20+ goal scorer but it doesn't mean that he can't be a quality captain or that he can't improve is all-round game. Everyone in Toronto expects the captain to be the best of the best, an elite at their position but being a leader in the dressing room, on the ice, etc doesn't necessarily mean you are tops in the league at your position or that you can't make a mistake. Look at some of the other captains around the league, Phaneuf is definately not the worst...Komisarek has nothing to do with our future IMO, Kadri will never be Crosby/Stamkos/Ovie elite but he if he reaches his full potential I don't see why he couldn't be a consistent a top 20 point getter in the league...yes we'll get Kessel a centre b/c it's becoming very obvious this year that one of your best forwards have to play centre, they can't all be wingers...so yes I do believe they will eventually find a centre for him...have even watched Schenn play this year? He's hands down there best defensemen at 21 years old and getting over 20 minutes a game...he's getting all the ice time he needs...no idea if Gustavsson will be a number 1 but he could be or Rynnas could be or FA, etc...but lets see what he can or can't do then decide before writing him off.

And yes I absolutely believe this team is building for the future...look at some of our current prospects and the fact that they have the youngest team in the league all indicates that this team is more built for our future than for the current.

My complaint isn't that Leafs fans are underestimating the quality of the current team but the fact that you can complain about all of the above and it doesn't do anything at all. You might as well focus on the positives, no matter how small, and cheer for the team that you can't help but cheer for b/c you wouldn't cheer for them if you had a choice.

Are you telling me I should be positive because we have one of the youngest teams in the league? Just being young doesn't mean there's a positive future ahead. Not one player on this team looks be an elite player in this league right now. For a team that was rebuilding, giving up those two first round picks set us back significantly. Picks don't guarantee you'll get top notch players, but if we're going to suck the way we did last year and this year, I'd rather be looking forward to having Kadri, last year's pick and this coming one. Instead we have to hope to somehow sign someone, problem is all the potential young guys we could target in FA are re-upping with their current teams long-term.

Don't get me wrong, there are some positives like Schenn, who's been unbelievable this year and looks 100 times better than last. But we are still lacking some potential top level young talent to look forward to and saddled with some bad contracts without a first rounder this season.

[j127]

No way am I going to focus on the positives and ignore the negatives. The only time I do that is if we are contenders. When you were the 2nd worst team in the league last season and currently 5th worst now, there are a lot of glaring negatives that you can't ignore.

The problem is, I don't even want them to tank this year I don't want Boston getting another great pick to build for their future.

We need a first line C to anchor our top line. Kessel's potential is being wasted right now. Our defence has improved, but we can still make bigger strides. Like our lazy forwards who don't come back on D. And our overall almost non-existent offence.

Man, I really hope we turn around this season. We're going to turn Boston into a powerhouse

[darth_federer]

Damn. Horrible loss.

The Leafs need to rebuild next year.

[Brew666]

Are you telling me I should be positive because we have one of the youngest teams in the league? Just being young doesn't mean there's a positive future ahead. Not one player on this team looks be an elite player in this league right now. For a team that was rebuilding, giving up those two first round picks set us back significantly. Picks don't guarantee you'll get top notch players, but if we're going to suck the way we did last year and this year, I'd rather be looking forward to having Kadri, last year's pick and this coming one. Instead we have to hope to somehow sign someone, problem is all the potential young guys we could target in FA are re-upping with their current teams long-term.

Don't get me wrong, there are some positives like Schenn, who's been unbelievable this year and looks 100 times better than last. But we are still lacking some potential top level young talent to look forward to and saddled with some bad contracts without a first rounder this season.

I was definitely wearing rose-coloured glasses the day I wrote that...but what I'm trying to get at is this year sucks, yes, and Boston will probably be getting another high pick due to the trade but that doesn't change the assets that we have gained as well. Our picks are ripping up the CHL right now which is a positive sign and I think moving forward our cupboard isn't as bare as it has been in the past. No one is gaining further perspective on the deal and nothig else can be done about it so why focus on it? Burke effed it up...but as Triano said, what the *%&# ya gonna do? I 100% agree that I'd rather have Kadri, Seguin et al and done a proper rebuild through the draft but it didn't happen and there's nothing we can do about it now...as there is nothing we can do about JFJ dealing a first (Lars Eller) to SJ for Toskala, and Rask for Raycroft...and we didnt' even get a serviceable player in either of those deals.

I'm a firm believer that late draft gems can be found and those picks aren't just throwaways....we don't have our top pick but we have our other picks...and I believe top level talent can be found late in the draft...not happy about not having our best draft pick but we do still own our others and we can draft well.

If I was grading Burke I'd give him a C on building the Leafs team but I'd probably give him a B on his building of the franchise.

[Brew666]

No way am I going to focus on the positives and ignore the negatives. The only time I do that is if we are contenders. When you were the 2nd worst team in the league last season and currently 5th worst now, there are a lot of glaring negatives that you can't ignore.

The problem is, I don't even want them to tank this year I don't want Boston getting another great pick to build for their future.

We need a first line C to anchor our top line. Kessel's potential is being wasted right now. Our defence has improved, but we can still make bigger strides. Like our lazy forwards who don't come back on D. And our overall almost non-existent offence.

Man, I really hope we turn around this season. We're going to turn Boston into a powerhouse

I didn't mean for it to come across as ignore the negatives but rather why continue to beat the dead horse. I think the highest expectations for most fans would've been squeaking into the playoffs but what was more important was the development of our youth and future. The three players that were dealt for Kessel are not our entire future and not having them doesn't mean that we have no future and have to start again IMO. We're trying to build a franchise and not just a team and I think we've made more steps than ever towards building a franchise v. team.

[YogiStewart]

someone start a December thread already!