OT: Red Sox close to acquiring Adrian Gonzalez

[Schad]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/r ... trade.html

Really curious what they're offering. Either way, another star migrating to the AL East...but this one isn't yet 30.

[Randle McMurphy]

Jays better get in on that and steal him away.

[CapeCrusader]

Besides the Cubs, Rosenthal lists the Angels, Blue Jays, Orioles, Nationals, Rangers and Rays as having a "possible interest" in a Gonzalez trade.

Hopefully AA is making a good pitch for him.

[DonYon]

probably two good prospects going back the other way

[Randle McMurphy]

Olney is reporting that it's essentially done and that the Sox are in contract negotiations with Gonzalez. Apparently, it's only going to cost them prospects and money. Nothing off the MLB roster.

I'll reserve full judgment until I see the deal, but this is a bit disappointing, because that's something this team and its owners clearly have in excess.

[Schad]

Olney is reporting that it's essentially done and that the Sox are in contract negotiations with Gonzalez. Apparently, it's only going to cost them prospects and money. Nothing off the MLB roster.

I'll reserve full judgment until I see the deal, but this is a bit disappointing, because that's something this team and its owners clearly have in excess.

Definitely, though there is another factor with his walk year coming up: even if we offered an extension of similar value this off-season, he might not have been willing to sign. Not because he'd resist being a Jay, but simply because he and his agent would have the possibility of the Sox or Yankees throwing the family heirlooms at him. As he's instead going to one of those teams, his market is already set...he knows, give or take, what his free agent value will be barring a massive season or implosion. Would I have liked them to take a run at him regardless? Yeah, definitely.

As for what was included, I'm submitting Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo and Drake Britton as my guess.

[dagger]

Sorry to see this. It's the one thing I dislike about depending on the farm system to develop a championship calibre team. While we build, others aren't standing still, and in the AL East, it means the Sox and Yankees are maintaining the arms race at a fever pitch. At some point we're going to have to stop hoarding draft picks and prospects and get out there and trade for real, live, quality major leaguers.

There is no substitute for proven major league quality. Unless you have the next Stephen Strasbourg (with a bionic arm to boot), prospects are a roll of the dice.

[hyper316]

this is equivalent to an nba 4-point swing. while the jays miss out on a chance on a former number 1 pick and proven player, a division rival picks up the FA. we are desperately in need of a 1B and this is one of the best hitting 1B.

good big leaguers > top prospect minor leaguers

[Schad]

Sorry to see this. It's the one thing I dislike about depending on the farm system to develop a championship calibre team. While we build, others aren't standing still, and in the AL East, it means the Sox and Yankees are maintaining the arms race at a fever pitch. At some point we're going to have to stop hoarding draft picks and prospects and get out there and trade for real, live, quality major leaguers.

Absolutely, but hoarding kiddies is a necessary precursor to making runs at these guys...if we want to, we now have the talent to not only take a run at just about any player who might end up on the trade market (something that wasn't the case not long ago), but still have enough talent left over that we'll have kiddies graduating to the bigs, or the pieces to make subsequent moves.

That's why the depth aspect is so important; if we put together one of these three/four prospect deals for a superstar and it doesn't rocket us into contention, it doesn't sap us of all of our flexibility for the next couple years.

[dagger]

Sorry to see this. It's the one thing I dislike about depending on the farm system to develop a championship calibre team. While we build, others aren't standing still, and in the AL East, it means the Sox and Yankees are maintaining the arms race at a fever pitch. At some point we're going to have to stop hoarding draft picks and prospects and get out there and trade for real, live, quality major leaguers.

Absolutely, but hoarding kiddies is a necessary precursor to making runs at these guys...if we want to, we now have the talent to not only take a run at just about any player who might end up on the trade market (something that wasn't the case not long ago), but still have enough talent left over that we'll have kiddies graduating to the bigs, or the pieces to make subsequent moves.

That's why the depth aspect is so important; if we put together one of these three/four prospect deals for a superstar and it doesn't rocket us into contention, it doesn't sap us of all of our flexibility for the next couple years.

The question is going to be when do we have enough, or even too much, in the kiddie korps. We already have a nice major league starting rotation, and if we do nothing, this group might become the best starting staff in the league. Add in Drabek, Stewart and various others in the high minors, and recent firsts like McGuire, and we have considerable pitching depth already. In fact, AA seems to love drafting pitchers, so he may not stop using high picks on arms rather than position players. If we hoard too much too long, we'll get to a point where we make these deals you talk about but are still 2-3 years away from contention because the team has to build chemistry.

At some point, and I think we're very close, having so many draft picks like we will next June assures us of the ability to replenish the minors with good prospects if we want to use some now to acquire a proven, under-30 major league talent.

[Michael Bradley]

Very disappointing if it happens. Gonzalez is a superstar. Getting him away from Petco will make him a monster offensively (OPS on the road since 2006: .905, .928, .946, 1.045, .980). On one hand I want the Jays to swoop in and offer the moon for him, but on the other, it is probably pointless since Jed Hoyer used to work for Boston with Epstein. Hoyer is familar with the Sox system and likely helped acquire some of the talent he will end up getting for Gonzalez. Probably not much AA could have done, but who knows.

The Jays have the money and prospects to acquire and lock up a Gonzalez type player, that is the disappointing part. In a perfect world, the Cardinals suck next season and the Jays throw every available dime they have on Albert Pujols, but that's probably a pipe dream. Prince Fielder is probably the next best option.

[Schad]

The question is going to be when do we have enough, or even too much, in the kiddie korps. We already have a nice major league starting rotation, and if we do nothing, this group might become the best starting staff in the league. Add in Drabek, Stewart and various others in the high minors, and recent firsts like McGuire, and we have considerable pitching depth already. In fact, AA seems to love drafting pitchers, so he may not stop using high picks on arms rather than position players. If we hoard too much too long, we'll get to a point where we make these deals you talk about but are still 2-3 years away from contention because the team has to build chemistry.

Chemistry is really unimportant in baseball...useful for your 2B and SS, but largely meaningless elsewhere in a largely individual sport.

The only time you can have too many kids is if you have a massive bottleneck. We aren't anywhere near that; our talent is spread out at different levels, with the possible exception of our pitchers. But given the frequency of pitcher injuries, pitch limits and the fact that a couple of them might be better as relievers anyway, it's not really a problem.

[dagger]

The question is going to be when do we have enough, or even too much, in the kiddie korps. We already have a nice major league starting rotation, and if we do nothing, this group might become the best starting staff in the league. Add in Drabek, Stewart and various others in the high minors, and recent firsts like McGuire, and we have considerable pitching depth already. In fact, AA seems to love drafting pitchers, so he may not stop using high picks on arms rather than position players. If we hoard too much too long, we'll get to a point where we make these deals you talk about but are still 2-3 years away from contention because the team has to build chemistry.

Chemistry is really unimportant in baseball...useful for your 2B and SS, but largely meaningless elsewhere in a largely individual sport.

The only time you can have too many kids is if you have a massive bottleneck. We aren't anywhere near that; our talent is spread out at different levels, with the possible exception of our pitchers. But given the frequency of pitcher injuries, pitch limits and the fact that a couple of them might be better as relievers anyway, it's not really a problem.

I think you have too many kids if you keep on stock piling assets while your principal competitors put so much distance between you and them that you can't sufficiently close the gap when you need to. If the Sox get Gonzalez and Crawford, that's a major upgrade for a team already ahead of us and those guys aren't old fogies either. There is no waiting that out. Like I said, the Jays have so many draft picks next June they can replenish the system if they have to move a couple of top tier prospects now for an Upton type.

My sense, Schad, is that some hardcore fans of this team get so hung up on prospects, tracking what they eat for lunch, that they lose sight of the big picture. The big picture may be that we don't make a lot of stupid signings in a vain attempt to leapfrog the Yanks and Sox, but the big picture also is not letting us fall so far behind them that it kills any lingering interest in the Jays in Toronto. We should be making enough moves at the major league level to at least remain an 85-win team, and so far, we have lost a lot more capability at the major league level than we have added this off season, even though hardcore addicts got another few draft picks to jerk off to like they are Porn.

Yes, it's wonderful to get draft picks for Buck and Downs and others, and there are good financial reasons not to throw big contracts at these guys but right now, but Carlos Villanueva won't replace Downs or even Gregg. We have holes at the corners, little left hand hitting, and little hitting for average as opposed to power. As of this moment, we are a worse team than the one that finished last season, while the Sox are on the verge of getting much better. And they already were better. The Yankees, of course, won't sit on their laurels. Oh, but we have a lot of extra draft picks. Whoop-te-do.

I think sound rebuilding means taking a backward step at first, but once engaged, you shouldn't make a habit of it. If you take some baby steps forward, like we did last year with our starting pitching, we should expect to take more baby steps forward, not take a full stride backwards. Not with this fatass cable company as owner. They say they will spend, and they have shed a lot of cash from last season, so time to start.

[Schad]

My sense, Schad, is that some hardcore fans of this team get so hung up on prospects, tracking what they eat for lunch, that they lose sight of the big picture. The big picture may be that we don't make a lot of stupid signings in a vain attempt to leapfrog the Yanks and Sox, but the big picture also is not letting us fall so far behind them that it kills any lingering interest in the Jays in Toronto. We should be making enough moves at the major league level to at least remain an 85-win team, and so far, we have lost a lot more capability at the major league level than we have added this off season, even though hardcore addicts got another few draft picks to jerk off to like they are Porn.

I disagree entirely in terms of keeping interest...the only way we're ever going to get back interest in this team is to make the playoffs. We just had a remarkably good season, and finished 12th in attendance; even when we were killing it earlier in the year, we maxed out at 14-20k a game (with the exception of invasions of Sox/Yanks fans). To change that, we're either going to have to lower ticket prices and bring back Toonie Tuesday to artificially inflate attendance, or we're going to have to get to a point where we can really, truly hang with the big boys. The casual fans seem to have stopped buying the "we're only four games out in July!" thing...our success needs to be more than illusory.

As for getting hung up on prospects and losing sight of the big picture, it's almost as if you didn't read the first post I made in this thread. To reiterate, I believe that we have stockpiled enough talent that we're in a position to go after very good players, so long as those players are young enough to fit into our long-term planning...we're in no position to go after short-term rentals. Adrian Gonzalez was the sort of player I'd like us to go after.

[Relentless88]

Adrian Gonzalez would've been perfect at 1B for us. We could have then let Lind DH, and just pickup a 3B through FA.

[rapsfan1231]

Damn this is really not good for us Gonzalez is dangerous and excels at the jays traditional weakness, hitting with RISP. Its outstanding he hits higher than .400. All it took was one good prospect?

[WpgPage]

3 very good prospects and a PTBNL, contract is looking like its going to be around 5/125 similar to the Howard deal. Although I hate to see a guy with his kind of talent coming into our devision it does severely limit the market for Prince Fielder in a year, with the Sox and Yanks now set at 1st/DH for the foreseeable future. With Prince probably looking for a similar contract the only teams I can think of that would be interested would be:
Toronto
Baltimore
Texas (if they fail to sign Lee)
Milwaukee
Chicago Cubs
LA Dodgers
Washington

Out of those teams I expect the Dodgers and Baltimore to sign one of the remaining FA 1st basemen this year limiting their ability to sign Prince. So assuming that the Rangers hold onto Lee (a semi-possible assumption) and the Yankees are planning on Montero to be the long term answer at DH (a pretty decent assumption) the market for Prince actually looks pretty thin.

Now this is all based on the 2011 Jays playing like the 2010 version if we suck then obviously there is no point in signing a guy like fielder, but if were good and the pitchers keep developing and Jose wasn't a Fluke then signing him to a 5+2 @ 22.5 mil annually doesn't look like a bad idea.

[Avenger]

You know what the most disgusting part of all this is? the prospects the Sux are giving up are **** junk. Man, i wish we had an entire section of cheer leaders among the national baseball writers that could hype up every prospect like they do for the Red Sox. I mean that douche **** Peter Gammons single handedly raises the value of Red Sox prospects. Casey Kelly is the prime piece(and arguably the only piece) coming back when you're giving up probably a top 5 hitter in Baseball? Really? Is that the best you could do Hoyer?

This is absolutely devastating for the Blue Jays

[-MetA4-]

You know what the most disgusting part of all this is? the prospects the Sux are giving up are **** junk. Man, i wish we had an entire section of cheer leaders among the national baseball writers that could hype up every prospect like they do for the Red Sox. This is absolutely devastating for the Blue Jays

San Diego's GM came straight from Boston's organization; thus he should have a fairly good idea of the ability of the prospects that were targeted.

[SolomonSkyHook]

Any way Toronto swoops in with a better offer at the 11th hour? Just like the Reds did with Chapman(only that was signing and not a trade).

Is this a form of a sign-and-trade(so that the Sox won't have to surrender a draft pick), or is Gonzalez still under contract?