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Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie

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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#221 » by Schad » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:17 am

darth_federer wrote:
One reason #Brewers willing to give up top prospect Lawrie for 2 yrs of Marcum: They think they have chance to sign Marcum MORE #BlueJays

...long-term. #BlueJays were talking to Marcum about 3-yr deal. Marcum, from KC, said to be excited to return to Midwest. #Brewers #MLB


http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal


Interesting...wonder if they got the vibe from contract talks that he'd like to be a little closer to home.

This also represents the first time that anyone has ever been excited to return to the Midwest.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#222 » by -MetA4- » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:18 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
darth_federer wrote:for the cost of raw AA prospect.


Why the **** do you keep saying "raw"?

Every prospect is "raw" (otherwise they'd be in the majors). If anything, Lawrie is quite advanced because he is playing at a level that is well above his age.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#223 » by SharoneWright » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:18 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
SharoneWright wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:For a proven, above-average major league pitcher under control for two more years? A hell of a lot more than a raw player like Brett Lawrie.

Marcum's only as proven as his last season...

And his 2008 season. As I said, the question with him is injury, not performance-based.


And so its not like the Jays assume no risk by holding on to him. There's no sure thing. Jays made a decision.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers 

Post#224 » by Raider917 » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:19 am

Greinke's 2008 season was 1.4 WAR higher than Marcum this year. His "down year" this year was 1.7 WAR higher.
[/quote]
That's nice, but Greinke pitches in the AL Central. If he moves to the AL East, his WAR will go down significantly.[/quote]

Not necessarily. Although he hasn't pitched against the Yankees in a long time, his numbers were quite good against Boston, Tampa. Not very good against Baltimore though.[/quote]


Greinkes numbers as a starter vs the AL east are:
8 wins 17 losses 4.27 era in 208.2 innings

vs AL east teams other than the Jays:
5 wins 13 losses 4.15 era in 151.2 innings
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#225 » by ItsDanger » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:19 am

I'm not worried about Cecil at all. Given his stats against the AL East, nobody else should either. Big game pitcher. 4-0 vs NYY. His slight slump near the end is exaggerated.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#226 » by Hoopstarr » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:20 am

darth_federer wrote:
One reason #Brewers willing to give up top prospect Lawrie for 2 yrs of Marcum: They think they have chance to sign Marcum MORE #BlueJays

...long-term. #BlueJays were talking to Marcum about 3-yr deal. Marcum, from KC, said to be excited to return to Midwest. #Brewers #MLB


http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal


Exactly what I was saying. They wouldn't give up their best prospect if they were just going to let him go into free agency.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#227 » by hyper316 » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:20 am

nice, apparently Brett Lawrie is Brewers' number 1 prospect
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#228 » by G-Mac » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:22 am

Yosemite Dan wrote:Some of you guys can spin this trade anyway you want to make yourself feel better but this is an absolutely HORRIBLE trade. I'm not sure what AA is smoking but I think he just made his 1st major mistake. You do not give up a legit #2 starter (any argument to the contrary is silly) for a prospect and Lawrie is far from a sure thing and several years away from the major leagues so it's like he is gonna help us in any way in the next 3 years.

If AA thinks that he's got legit and consistent workhorse starters in Morrow and Cecil then we all might be in for a rude awakening. Cecil didn't finish well and had good run support last year and Morrow could not even be counted to pitch the last 6 weeks of the season because of concerns about damaging his arm so he is not a sure thing by any means and he's been inconsistent his whole career. To say he bombs next year is a distinct possibility because he's like Burnett between the ears and not the strongest mentally.

Basically we had Romero and Marcum who could be counted to quality and consistent starters next year and to give up half that for a 2nd basemen who may have to be a 3rd baseman but not 3rd baseman power makes little sense at this point. I can see Marcum becoming the next Chris Carpenter in the NL. This trade may haunt us.


Those are some pretty pessimistic views on Cecil and Morrow. These guys are young and improving, there is no reason to expect them to regress. Cecil just finished his first season as a full time starter, not surprised he may not have finished with a flourish. At the beginning of last season, would you have labeled romero badly just because he only put together 1 good season? He has now put together 2 and is well on his way to being a very good pitcher, as you alluded to.

Morrow didn't get to pitch the last 6 weeks because of his incredibly terrible usage with the Mariners. He was yo-yo'd back and forth from relief to starter relief to starter and majors to minors majors to minors. The Blue Jays said they were going to stabilize his position as a starter, and treat him carefully and bring him up to speed buy not overdoing his workload. He already pitched more than double the amount of innings he did in 2009 once they shut him down. And don't label Morrow's mind like Burnett's just because they have a similar pitching style. I don;t think Burnett will ever show the class Morrow did with that 17K performance last year, and the dude has diabetes on top of it all, another thing he deals with exceptionally well.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#229 » by Ducksplatt » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:23 am

Hope Lawrie is a trade piece.
And if Jays can get Greinke, I have no problem giving up Marcum
Greinke can dominate games.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#230 » by Hoopstarr » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:23 am

-MetA4- wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:
darth_federer wrote:for the cost of raw AA prospect.


Why the **** do you keep saying "raw"?

Every prospect is "raw" (otherwise they'd be in the majors). If anything, Lawrie is quite advanced because he is playing at a level that is well above his age.


And doing it pretty well. An .800 OPS in the SL is nothing to sneeze at.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#231 » by darth_federer » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:23 am

Schadenfreude wrote:
darth_federer wrote:
One reason #Brewers willing to give up top prospect Lawrie for 2 yrs of Marcum: They think they have chance to sign Marcum MORE #BlueJays

...long-term. #BlueJays were talking to Marcum about 3-yr deal. Marcum, from KC, said to be excited to return to Midwest. #Brewers #MLB


http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal


Interesting...wonder if they got the vibe from contract talks that he'd like to be a little closer to home.

This also represents the first time that anyone has ever been excited to return to the Midwest.


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I think he probably wanted a 3 year deal that they didnt think he was worth so they traded him away. The young guys all like him and hes a good guy in the clubhouse too.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#232 » by G-Mac » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:27 am

Ducksplatt wrote:Hope Lawrie is a trade piece.
And if Jays can get Greinke, I have no problem giving up Marcum
Greinke can dominate games.


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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#233 » by Santoki » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:28 am

So, is this pretty much done? Lawrie for Marcum straight up?
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#234 » by WpgPage » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:29 am

AA just pulled off an unbelievable trade I like Marcum he seams like a great guy and he gives everything he has on the mound I can see why a lot of you are disappointed he was traded. But lets be honest he has hit his peak and it is a #3 pitchers at best, and we got at top 50 prospect in all of baseball. This to me is a clear sign from AA that he doesn't think this team is ready yet he wants to keep building the system and try to be competitive closer to 2012-2013, could this trade be a negative absolutely but I think the upside is definitely there.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers 

Post#235 » by torontoaces04 » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:30 am

Waylon Mercy wrote:Wow shocking....

Im gonna take and wait and see approach

But as of right now I lost a bit of confidence in AA


:lol: :lol: :lol:

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#236 » by MajorDad » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:30 am

I' m a brewers fan. i didn't like the trade. marcum is an ok pitcher. he's not teh ace pitcher the brewers needed.

the majority of blue jays fans have stated here they think the brewers are in a rebuilding mode. I noticed a bunch of blue jays fans stating that in this thread. if you were in a rebuilding mode , would you trade your #1 prospect for a 29 year old pitcher? I highly doubt it.

as a blue jay fan would you be more upset if the blue jays traded drabek, romero or morrow? rather than Marcum? because of their young age , they would be a much better fit for the brewers' rebuilding plans.

i see the trade for marcum as brewer gn melvin's desperation attempt to acquire a starting pitcher whose 2011 salary is less tha $5 million, as he tries to have one last winning season before fielder leaves as a free agent. Acquiring marcum was an inexpensive short term fix - not a smart long term solution.

you guys should like Lawrie. he's the type of hitter who could advance to the majors from AA. his defense is suspect. and he's probably a better third baseman than second baseman. but hey ... he's a prospect.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#237 » by Randle McMurphy » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:34 am

-MetA4- wrote:Why the **** do you keep saying "raw"?

Because he is a young guy has a ton of developing left to do to reach the major league level, both offensively and defensively. Basically, there's a lot of risk there. That should be obvious, no?
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#238 » by Randle McMurphy » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:37 am

darth_federer wrote:I think he probably wanted a 3 year deal that they didnt think he was worth so they traded him away. The young guys all like him and hes a good guy in the clubhouse too.

Sounds like they didn't want to pay him what he was worth on an extension and traded him away. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course (especially if they are rebuilding...though we've been getting mixed messages on direction over the last year), but you have to expect more than Brett Lawrie in a deal like this.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#239 » by WpgPage » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:37 am

Yosemite Dan wrote:Some of you guys can spin this trade anyway you want to make yourself feel better but this is an absolutely HORRIBLE trade. I'm not sure what AA is smoking but I think he just made his 1st major mistake. You do not give up a legit #2 starter (any argument to the contrary is silly) for a prospect and Lawrie is far from a sure thing and several years away from the major leagues so it's like he is gonna help us in any way in the next 3 years.

If AA thinks that he's got legit and consistent workhorse starters in Morrow and Cecil then we all might be in for a rude awakening. Cecil didn't finish well and had good run support last year and Morrow could not even be counted to pitch the last 6 weeks of the season because of concerns about damaging his arm so he is not a sure thing by any means and he's been inconsistent his whole career. To say he bombs next year is a distinct possibility because he's like Burnett between the ears and not the strongest mentally.

Basically we had Romero and Marcum who could be counted to quality and consistent starters next year and to give up half that for a 2nd basemen who may have to be a 3rd baseman but not 3rd baseman power makes little sense at this point. I can see Marcum becoming the next Chris Carpenter in the NL. This trade may haunt us.



seriously?? what do we need help with for the next 2-3 years finishing 3rd and 4th in the devision? you would think after we all watched Tampa's success in the AL east we could fallow the blue print. Sell high when you can get as many high impact controllable assets as possible then spend big when you are close.
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Re: Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie 

Post#240 » by -MetA4- » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:40 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
-MetA4- wrote:Why the **** do you keep saying "raw"?

Because he is a young guy has a ton of developing left to do to reach the major league level, both offensively and defensively. Basically, there's a lot of risk there. That should be obvious, no?


What prospect isn't "raw"?

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