Draft Talk

TSE · Post #41 » by **TSE** » Sat Dec 4, 2010 10:48 pm

We can trade Stafford then draft Luck.

Piston Pete · Post #42 » by **Piston Pete** » Sun Dec 5, 2010 5:10 am

^^^Why?

So you can switch from "let's trade Stafford" to "let's trade Luck?"

TSE · Post #43 » by **TSE** » Sun Dec 5, 2010 6:12 pm

No, i'm anticipating a new arrangement for pay structure to rookies and I think that Luck will be a much less expensive QB in addition to being a better QB prospect to make him an extremely perfect fit here in Detroit.

Post #44 » by **Icness** » Mon Dec 6, 2010 4:59 pm

ajaX82 wrote:And i will throw Ice a question as well....is Luck really this ridiculously good? Every scouting site i read just flat out loves the kid. Some are saying the best prospect to come around ever! Is this a little hyperbole or is Andrew Luck really the next big thing at QB?

Since i live nowhere near Cali, i have never actually seen him play, live or on TV. What QB does he compare best to right now?

I know we are certainly not drafting him, but his hype is interesting.

He is a better, more NFL-ready QB prospect than any QB since Peyton Manning. I've been in the draft business since 2003 and he's easily the highest-rated talent at QB I've seen in that time. He's got it all--arm strength, accuracy, poise, agility, awareness, testicular fortitude, pedigree. There's reallly not a lot of talent around him at Stanford and he got them to a BCS game. Put Jake Locker as their QB and they might have gone 8-4 at best.

I don't know him personally so I can't speak about his mindset or maturity, other than he's gotta be a smart cookie to get into Stanford. The western scouts I've talked to all absolutely love him. He will be the #1 pick no matter who is picking, no drama at all this year for the top pick.

I'll give y'all a later-round QB prospect I know the Lions have looked at lately: Nate Enderle of Idaho. Accurate, good field vision, comes from a pro-style offense, smart, battle-tested. Arm is only average, but he's played with poor talent around him that forced him to get rid of the ball quickly and not really have downfield options. Only an average athlete and he needs some mechanical tweaking but he's a developable 6th-7th rounder.

Post #45 » by **Icness** » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:04 pm

FWIW I've already heard some chatter about Arizona going after Luck no matter the price. It's way too premature now but the people spewing that talk are people that would be in position to know such things. I'm talking their 1st round pick + Darnell Dockett + more picks to move up, and they should be picking in the top 5 to begin with. Even with all that I'm not sure anyone would give up the chance to draft Luck. Keep in mind Carolina will have all new people next year--new GM, new coaching staff--with zero ties to any of the 4 QBs they drafted last year, and they will almost certainly have the #1 pick. That's an attractive way to lure a potential coach *coughCowher/Grudencough*

Piston Pete · Post #46 » by **Piston Pete** » Mon Dec 6, 2010 5:39 pm

Here's to hoping we keep losing then....and get the #1 pick.

Swap 1st's with Arizona and take CB Patrick Peterson PLUS get more picks, and possibly a player?!?!

Post #47 » by **ajaX82** » Mon Dec 6, 2010 7:57 pm

Icness wrote:
ajaX82 wrote:And i will throw Ice a question as well....is Luck really this ridiculously good? Every scouting site i read just flat out loves the kid. Some are saying the best prospect to come around ever! Is this a little hyperbole or is Andrew Luck really the next big thing at QB?

Since i live nowhere near Cali, i have never actually seen him play, live or on TV. What QB does he compare best to right now?

I know we are certainly not drafting him, but his hype is interesting.

He is a better, more NFL-ready QB prospect than any QB since Peyton Manning. I've been in the draft business since 2003 and he's easily the highest-rated talent at QB I've seen in that time. He's got it all--arm strength, accuracy, poise, agility, awareness, testicular fortitude, pedigree. There's reallly not a lot of talent around him at Stanford and he got them to a BCS game. Put Jake Locker as their QB and they might have gone 8-4 at best.

I don't know him personally so I can't speak about his mindset or maturity, other than he's gotta be a smart cookie to get into Stanford. The western scouts I've talked to all absolutely love him. He will be the #1 pick no matter who is picking, no drama at all this year for the top pick.

I'll give y'all a later-round QB prospect I know the Lions have looked at lately: Nate Enderle of Idaho. Accurate, good field vision, comes from a pro-style offense, smart, battle-tested. Arm is only average, but he's played with poor talent around him that forced him to get rid of the ball quickly and not really have downfield options. Only an average athlete and he needs some mechanical tweaking but he's a developable 6th-7th rounder.

Thanks man, much appreciated. Ive heard of Enderle...interesting

Piston Pete wrote:Here's to hoping we keep losing then....and get the #1 pick.

Swap 1st's with Arizona and take CB Patrick Peterson PLUS get more picks, and possibly a player?!?!

I mean yeah that would be sweet but in reality we do not want the #1 pick. Way too much money tied into that thing. Unless like you said we get it and everybody and their brother is offering deals to move up and get Luck. Thats a good situation

TSE · Post #48 » by **TSE** » Mon Dec 6, 2010 8:15 pm

Icness wrote:He will be the #1 pick no matter who is picking, no drama at all this year for the top pick.

So just to clarify, assuming we end up with the #1 pick, then you expect we will draft him? Answer both ways on what you would want us to do and what you think Mayhew will do if they are different. And if we do draft Luck, what pick number in the draft do you think we could get for Stafford?

Also, what if Cinci has the first pick, you think they will take Luck despite having Palmer? And you are that sure Carolina won't take a chance on developing Claussen for the future and use this time to get another player? The only other player that seems worth the first pick to me right now is Da'Quan Bowers. He's putting up some pretty solid numbers with 15 sacks to lead the nation and 2nd in TFLs with 24, do you think there's any possible chance that you might change your mind in the future and consider Bowers as the top pick? Also what about Nick Fairly assuming he declares, he seems like a guy that will be very highly coveted.

TSE · Post #49 » by **TSE** » Mon Dec 6, 2010 8:21 pm

ajaX82 wrote:
I mean yeah that would be sweet but in reality we do not want the #1 pick. Way too much money tied into that thing. Unless like you said we get it and everybody and their brother is offering deals to move up and get Luck. Thats a good situation

Well you may not want it but I want it bad. I always want the #1 pick. There hasn't been a year yet where I wouldn't have wanted the #1 pick over any other pick. It's much better in some years versus others obviously, but I think every single year it has clearly been the best pick to have. It all comes down to how you use it cause some years you need to deal with the pick differently in terms of what type of position you use it on and proper evaluation of trade considerations. Just because we haven't done a good job with making our picks or strategizing how to use our picks doesn't mean that we should not want what is the best valuable pick in the draft that you could theoretically do the most with.

Post #50 » by **Icness** » Tue Dec 7, 2010 1:49 am

TSE wrote:
Icness wrote:He will be the #1 pick no matter who is picking, no drama at all this year for the top pick.

So just to clarify, assuming we end up with the #1 pick, then you expect we will draft him? Answer both ways on what you would want us to do and what you think Mayhew will do if they are different. And if we do draft Luck, what pick number in the draft do you think we could get for Stafford?

Also, what if Cinci has the first pick, you think they will take Luck despite having Palmer? And you are that sure Carolina won't take a chance on developing Claussen for the future and use this time to get another player? The only other player that seems worth the first pick to me right now is Da'Quan Bowers. He's putting up some pretty solid numbers with 15 sacks to lead the nation and 2nd in TFLs with 24, do you think there's any possible chance that you might change your mind in the future and consider Bowers as the top pick? Also what about Nick Fairly assuming he declares, he seems like a guy that will be very highly coveted.

If the Lions were to somehow get the #1 pick I think they would strongly consider drafting Luck, but I would expect Mayhew to do everything he could to trade the pick. This organization remains very high on Stafford but is not blind to the injuries.

Personally I would take Patrick Peterson even at #1. This team has shown that it has the ability to be strong enough offensively with Shaun Hill, but the defense needs talent. I would prefer to go OL but none are worthy. Not sure I would take Derek Sherrod even at #10 and that's about as low as the Lions can possibly draft. I would certainly entertain trade offers but I would not give up on Stafford at this point; I would consider him a Pro Bowl-caliber bonus if he's healthy and I'm ready to play a full season with Shaun Hill if needed.

Cincy would take Luck, I have very little doubt in that. Palmer is cheap enough now they would sacrifice him and try to get sme picks in return. They'll have a new coach but everything gets decided by MIke Brown anyways so it really doesn't matter.

Bowers will get some play in the top 3, no doubt. I know one scout that thinks he's the next Bruce Smith. There is more risk involved with him. I do believe if Buffalo picks #1 they'd take Bowers.

Fairly has a lot of baggage, Haynesworth-type issues. Big-time talent, big-time headache, but some coach will be arrogant enough to believe he can "tame" him and turn him into Haynesworth 2.0 the All Pro. He's not real popular in the locker room and Auburn is as tight-knit of a top college team as I've seen since the 02 Buckeyes. I'm guessing right now he falls to the 10-15 range because of it but if you just take on-field prowess he belongs in the top 5. Maybe. It will be intersting to see how his coaches and teammates talk about him once their season is over. That is where we really find out who is a legit problem child and who is just immature/spoiled.

TSE · Post #51 » by **TSE** » Tue Dec 7, 2010 2:44 am

Although there might be a better value with Ryan Kerrigan as the second DE. He is the only guy with more TFLs than Bowers, but Kerrigan also has 5 FFs and 12.5 sacks and 70 tackles. And 6 FFs the season before too. Bowers only has 2 FFs for his career.

Post #52 » by **Icness** » Tue Dec 7, 2010 3:50 am

TSE wrote:Although there might be a better value with Ryan Kerrigan as the second DE. He is the only guy with more TFLs than Bowers, but Kerrigan also has 5 FFs and 12.5 sacks and 70 tackles. And 6 FFs the season before too. Bowers only has 2 FFs for his career.

I like Kerrigan a lot, he'd be a great hybrid DE/OLB in the Lions scheme.

If I were Mayhew my priorities this offseason, in order:
1. Outside linebacker. Two new starters, sorry Zack Follett. Move Peterson to situational rusher and mentor.
2. Strong safety. Delmas is decent but needs a mate that is better in downfield coverage and matching up with backs and TEs. I'm not sold that Spievey is the guy. I know CC Brown is not the guy.
3. Offensive line. It's better this year but Backus is aging and still only average on his best days. The depth inside is tragic.
4. Wide receiver. A #3 wideout with size that can block and won't drop the ball but doesn't need the ball. I would go free agency here first.
5. Cornerback. Houston and Smith are both keepers, but I'd ideally like a #1 ahead of them (Peterson). Moving Smith to short side in base D and in the slot with Houston going outside in nickel would make a very nice CB situation.

Piston Pete · Post #53 » by **Piston Pete** » Tue Dec 7, 2010 1:39 pm

I thought Spievey has been showing signs of "getting it" finally at safety. As this season ends, and he gets an entire offseason to prepare, I think he could be a very good safety moving forward...if he puts the work in.

My Priority List (same as yours, just different order):
1. OLB (agree, we need 2 different starters. I don't expect Peterson to be back)
2. CB (Peterson would be an absolutely HUGE addition for the reasons you detailed)
3. WR depth (Behind CJ, NB)
4. OL depth (behind the starters)
5. Safety depth (If spievey doens't put the work in, this could move up to #3 on the priority list)

Post #54 » by **Icness** » Tue Dec 7, 2010 6:13 pm

I'm cautiously hopeful about Speivey. I think CC Brown is actually good for him as a veteran presence. I'd like to see a veteran FA there more than a draft pick in the early rounds, just someone that can cover better than CC. They need a guy that can do what Leonhard did for the Jets or Chris Harris has done for both CAR and CHI.

Watching the Alabama/Auburn game (again) and I'm amazed at how much Fairley reminds me of Shaun Rogers. As destructive as anyone--when he wants to be. I'm in the 3Q and I've already seen him take about 5 plays off, where he just rises straight up and doesn't even try to disengage. But then he turns it on and they can't stop him with a double team. I've never hidden my love for Rogers so I guess maybe I should like Fairley more :wordyo:

kellmellus50 · Post #55 » by **kellmellus50** » Tue Dec 7, 2010 11:19 pm

Number 1 need is a QB or WR and if we get first pick we have to select a QB than trade him or stafford for 1st,2nd ,3rd, 4th picks than pick up the WR later in the first.

Piston Pete · Post #56 » by **Piston Pete** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 1:34 pm

WR is not a high enough priority to draft Day 1, let alone 1st round.

Post #57 » by **ajaX82** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 4:46 pm

Yeah grab a WR in free agency, not round freaking one. Kell i really think you may be Matt Millen posting in disguise

I wish we could have gotten Kevin Walter last year. Excellent blocker, runs good routes, catches the ball every time and doesn't need the ball to be effective. A perfect fit for us right now. sigh...

Piston Pete · Post #58 » by **Piston Pete** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 6:42 pm

I wouldn't mind picking a WR in the mid-to-late rounds if we can get a sleeper or a guy who fell for no reason, but I agree that picking up a cheap FA might be the best way to go.

ChronicKerr · Post #59 » by **ChronicKerr** » Thu Dec 9, 2010 7:03 pm

Icness wrote: Move Peterson to situational rusher and mentor.

I was under the assumption there was no way he was coming back next year.

Post #60 » by **Icness** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:01 pm

ChronicKerr wrote:
Icness wrote: Move Peterson to situational rusher and mentor.

I was under the assumption there was no way he was coming back next year.

He'll follow the $$. That could be Detroit, could be New England, could be Seattle again. The Lions would welcome him back in that sort of role if he wants it.