Scott Carson: Marcum trade/Grienke/More Rumours

[mini]

I posted this in the Offseason thread but this article is full of info so maybe it deserves it's own thread.

He says AA is ACTIVE

I will give Anthopoulos this: he talking to everyone to try and get the Blue Jays better. In the span of six hours on Monday afternoon, I saw the Blue Jays linked to conversations on Greinke, Prince Fielder, Russell Martin, Justin Upton, Carlos Pena, Orlando Hudson and Matt Diaz. Hopefully it’s a case of where there’s smoke there’s fire

He also goes on to analyze the Marcum deal:

This is a good trade for the Blue Jays, as Anthopoulos continues to stockpile highly drafted prospects. What they got out of Marcum this season is probably about as good as it’s going to get. He’s, at best, a solid No. 2, but never an ace. To get another franchise’s top prospect for a pitcher of Marcum’s stuff is quite a get. And in the process, added another piece to the impressive rebuild of the farm system.

He also thinks that we should deal Snider+Drabek for Grienke. Says that Snider has low IQ and isn't the most coachable, and that Drabek doesn't appear to be an ace.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2010/12/06/carson_jays_trades/

[dagger]

I posted this in the Offseason thread but this article is full of info so maybe it deserves it's own thread.

He says AA is ACTIVE

I will give Anthopoulos this: he talking to everyone to try and get the Blue Jays better. In the span of six hours on Monday afternoon, I saw the Blue Jays linked to conversations on Greinke, Prince Fielder, Russell Martin, Justin Upton, Carlos Pena, Orlando Hudson and Matt Diaz. Hopefully it’s a case of where there’s smoke there’s fire

He also goes on to analyze the Marcum deal:

This is a good trade for the Blue Jays, as Anthopoulos continues to stockpile highly drafted prospects. What they got out of Marcum this season is probably about as good as it’s going to get. He’s, at best, a solid No. 2, but never an ace. To get another franchise’s top prospect for a pitcher of Marcum’s stuff is quite a get. And in the process, added another piece to the impressive rebuild of the farm system.

He also thinks that we should deal Snider+Drabek for Grienke. Says that Snider has low IQ and isn't the most coachable, and that Drabek doesn't appear to be an ace.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2010/12/06/carson_jays_trades/

Call me a cynic, but I don't believe anyone who works for Sportsnet. They have a vested interest to sell tickets and rev up the fans to watch games. Let me for once hear a Sportsnet writer or blogger rip the organization.

[mini]

I agree, he's paid to like the decisions. It's info and opinion nonetheless. I'm more surprised by his opinions on Snider and Drabek. Still can't tell if we are trying for something this year or not.

[guvernator]

If one thing is clear about Alex by now, it is that if a deal has been rumored about in the media, it ain't happening.

All of his trades have been out of the blue.

[CapeCrusader]

I want Greinke, but on the fence of giving up Drabek let alone Drabek and Snider.

[J-Roc]

Call me a cynic, but I don't believe anyone who works for Sportsnet. They have a vested interest to sell tickets and rev up the fans to watch games. Let me for once hear a Sportsnet writer or blogger rip the organization.

I agree with your premise. But then, Snider and Drabek are still part of the organization. Check this quote on Snider....

But I also became leery of his average baseball IQ and the fact that he had trouble with the in-game coaching he was receiving from Cito Gaston and Gene Tenace. That raised some red flags from members of the Sportsnet broadcast booth who once played this game.

and Drabek....

As for Drabek, I’ve only seen him pitch three times in the majors, but I won’t say that I was blown away at any time. Average height (6-foot-1), he certainly won’t intimidate opponents from six feet, six inches away. And I saw nothing that screamed out "ace" (though it was a small sample I admit.)

Along with your premise, these quotes from a team employee suggests the Greinke trade is pretty much a done deal.

[hyper316]

Call me a cynic, but I don't believe anyone who works for Sportsnet. They have a vested interest to sell tickets and rev up the fans to watch games. Let me for once hear a Sportsnet writer or blogger rip the organization.

I agree with your premise. But then, Snider and Drabek are still part of the organization. Check this quote on Snider....

But I also became leery of his average baseball IQ and the fact that he had trouble with the in-game coaching he was receiving from Cito Gaston and Gene Tenace. That raised some red flags from members of the Sportsnet broadcast booth who once played this game.

and Drabek....

As for Drabek, I’ve only seen him pitch three times in the majors, but I won’t say that I was blown away at any time. Average height (6-foot-1), he certainly won’t intimidate opponents from six feet, six inches away. And I saw nothing that screamed out "ace" (though it was a small sample I admit.)

Along with your premise, these quotes from a team employee suggests the Greinke trade is pretty much a done deal.

+1. i didn't see anything special from Drabek in his 3 starts. I know it's not much to show, but still. Snider is a nice player, but i just hate out he chases bad pitches time and time again, kinda same thing with Wells. too bad we can't move Wells either. in the end, I'll be happy to get Greinke. Get him settle for a year in Toronto, then go for contention in 2012. he'll up his game then for sure that year when he goes for his contract year

[Ducksplatt]

The Jays traded away a Cy Young pitcher for three prospects.
The Jays now have a chance to turn one of those prospects (the best one) and another player (Snider) for a Cy Young pitcher.
I think they have to do it. These players do not come around too often in a trade.

[Randle McMurphy]

These players do not come around too often in a trade.

Players like Travis Snider don't come around too often in your system.

[andyo]

These players do not come around too often in a trade.

Players like Travis Snider don't come around too often in your system.

Greinke was arguably the best pitcher in the league a few years ago and just had, what seemed, like an off-year. I think this is totally different than a Burnett scenario for one. You have to give up something to get something. What has Snider proven in his time here to warrant such favoritism?

[Randle McMurphy]

These players do not come around too often in a trade.

Players like Travis Snider don't come around too often in your system.

Greinke was arguably the best pitcher in the league a few years ago and just had, what seemed, like an off-year. I think this is totally different than a Burnett scenario for one. You have to give up something to get something. What has Snider proven in his time here to warrant such favoritism?

The fact that he made the majors at 21 and has experienced decent success (.764 OPS) despite being screwed with by Cito Gaston is a pretty good sign. I have a feeling that some of you don't understand how impressive that is.

Really, I wouldn't even trade Travis Snider straight up for two years of Greinke.

[Randle McMurphy]

Also, what would be the point of trading for Greinke exactly (and why would he even want to come here)?

They just traded away one of their top starters for a prospect, in an apparent continuance of the rebuilding project. Greinke would only help them remain mediocre, he won't push them over any plateau. Not without more money in other places on the roster

[Ducksplatt]

Also, what would be the point of trading for Greinke exactly (and why would he even want to come here)?

They just traded away one of their top starters for a prospect, in an apparent continuance of the rebuilding project. Greinke would only help them remain mediocre, he won't push them over any plateau. Not without more money in other places on the roster

I guess I see the ceiling higher for Greinke as a rotation ace than Snider. What position does Snider play? Or will play? LF? Is he a defensive stud. Not yet. He might become one. So, his bat is the biggest value. But, is he going to DH? Where do you put him?
I am not sure if I could see Snider as an MVP of the American league. But, Greinke has already won a Cy Young.

But, I agree that Snider is still young and could break out. But he hasn't yet. And if you get a chance to get an Ace for your pitching staff, I think you have to take it.

Anyway, that is my opinion. I suppose AA has the final say.

[Randle McMurphy]

If you want an ace that badly, why not just sign Cliff Lee? Rogers has the money, and they'd need the money to sign Greinke to a long-term extension anyway. There is no reason to give up a player of Snider's quality in a deal like this.

[dagger]

jaysonst
Although Greinke now sending signals he'll go to any team, East Coast clubs sound dubious wants to pitch there. One exec: "Absolutely not."

[YogiStewart]

Really, I wouldn't even trade Travis Snider straight up for two years of Greinke.

i'm so-so about Snider.
he looks better than i expected in the outfield. i still don't feel comfortable with his ability to consistently hit the long ball.
you think he still has star potential?

[Trilogy]

If the team trades for Grienke after dealing Marcum and Lawrie isn't involved in the deal, I'll be baffled.

You may as well have just kept Marcum and formed perhaps the most lethal 1-5 rotation in the entire league.

I hope the Jays don't waffle in the middle like the Raptors have between rebuilding/contention. Go hard in one direction.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

If Reynolds & Dunn can hit 40, than why can't Snider? They all have the same profile, and Snider has some shown some speed.

[Ducksplatt]

If you want an ace that badly, why not just sign Cliff Lee? Rogers has the money, and they'd need the money to sign Greinke to a long-term extension anyway. There is no reason to give up a player of Snider's quality in a deal like this.

Lee is older and is looking for a 7 year deal:
http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ ... year_deal/
Ii don't really want to see another V Wells kind of mistake.

Greinke also has a few more years on his deal.

Anyway, it going to take some assets to get Greinke. Maybe it is not Snider and it is someone else (Lawrie?).

[s e n s i]

Greinke is still more than a few years away from his prime if he reaches it. If he doesn't, his stuff would still be good enough for a top of the rotation starter. And there is potential that a Greinke, Romero, Morrow trio could be the best in the league if they all improve accordingly.

Maybe 2012 is the right summer to go balls deep, kinda like in '91. We could persuade aging, yet prolific, FA's that they have one last legit shot to win it here (Morris and Winfield), as we'd have these young stud pitchers entering their primes (Key, Hentgen, Guzman, Leiter/Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek? Not to compare talent, but rather how each rotation still has a sizable margin between them and their potential ceilings). There would be significant holes to fill on the field, but with our surplus of prospect arms and supposedly increasing budget, it may not be as hard as some might think.

Don't we have a plethora of top 50 picks in the coming years? We could combine a few of those with some of our current assets to parlay into players in the back-end or midst of their primes, yet I still think we'd have a solid foundation of prospects rising up the ranks just in time to bridge the gap between contending one year and remaining competitive for the next several.