Official Thread - Wizards at Sacramento (12/8/10)

[hands11]

Sorry Ted, I love you as the Caps owner but as long as you still employ Flip, the medical staff and the man who destroyed the Franchise(Ernie), there will need to be a thread for you.

Clean house

I am hardly surprised we laid a bomb tonight. Actually, I kind of expected it.

Game after we almost beat LA on the road. The high.
Back to back on the road. A lot of good teams dont even win these.
No Wall. No Dray. So we started KS and Booker ?

Seraphin. Awesome the rookie got a start after last night but this is the same player a lot of people were saying needed a complete year to develop over seas. This just goes to show that McGee has relapsed after playing really well. That injury to his back effected him.

Booker also. Again, assume the rookie got the start but

Add Gil not playing well and Nick going 1-8

And this is a Flip bashing season ? Really ?

[closg00]

Good-ole Pooh Jeter, the D-League/Euro journeyman finally making a splash...at our expense

[Ruzious]

Gilbert is so incredibly passive right now.

He got into the lane last possession. Had a wide open look. Went up for the shot, and inexplicably passed it off to Booker who couldn't get a shot off.

Gilbert's "effort" this game was beyond putrid. Physically, he looked fine. I'm not sure his problem was, but he embarrassed the Washington Wizards tonight. With Wall injured, Flip didn't have much choice but to keep him in.

No.

He could have sat Gil the entire second half in favor of Young. Gil was -21 at halftime.

I realize Nick shot horribly tonight, but I still think that after coming off a 30-point game against the Lakers, that Nick should have been in early.

Also, McGee deserves to keep his starting spot. If anything, just don't play Yi any more and give all his minutes to Seraphin and Booker. Start Booker at PF would have made sense but keep McGee at C to start this game.

Flip is not doing anything well. The zone sucks. His subs suck. This team, except for last night, doesn't compete.

Gil stunk horribly tonight, but Flip's got Young and Martin capable of playing SG. Hinrich wasn't terrible early tonight. IMO Flip was bad.

He also play Yi a bunch tonight.

Fire Flip. Just like the Cowboys and Vikings found out in the NFL, coaches do make a difference. I'm convinced the Wizards can do MUCH better.

That's ignoring reality, CCJ. Without Wall, the Wiz have to play Arenas. He's the only player they have that can create offense - not just for himself but for other players. Young's success this season is because he's learned to play within the offense. He is not a creator. And certainly Hinrich is not a creator. You have to have someone with that capability on the floor. That's why Arenas had to be in there. And to say the coach blew it by not playing Young more - when Young was completely ineffective... again, you're ignoring reality because it fits your predisposition to always blame the coach. That's always been you're Pavlovian response - blame the coach for everything. It's like your brain goes "DOES NOT COMPUTE!" when the option of holding a player accountable comes up.

[tontoz]

Putting Arenas in the starting lineup isn't going to stop him from sucking. His lack of basic court sense is alarming at times. Throwing a pass to the backcourt to start the game was bad enough but that slap pass to Seraphin who was trying to set a pick of him was just bizarre.

Turnovers and defensive rebounding are the big issues here, not Gil starting/coming off the bench. The defense is bad but it would look a lot better if they actually took care of their defensive glass.

[hands11]

dandridge, I have ideas of what I think would be better than what I've seen out of Flip. Here goes:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... gni01.html
http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS6.HTM

1. Nick Young is by far the team's best SG. Start him at SG.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html
http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS15.HTM

2. For all his faults, Javale McGee is near the top of the NBA in FG%, ORB/min, and BLK/min. His per is 19.7. DO NOT be a fool and bench him after his improvements this season. Bench freaking Yi! Start McGee at C. Start Seraphin or Booker at PF when Blatche is out. Forget about Yi and Armstrong, and just give the young bigs all of the PF/C minutes.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS4.HTM

3. MOST IMPORTANT: Flip needs to recognize that Kirk Hinrich KILLS THIS TEAM WHENEVER HE IS AT SG OR SF. Kirk should only play PG. Period. For the most part, Kirk hurts this team. Flip's losing with a player who is marginally talented. I think Kirk needs to go. He's not a bad player but he's one PG too many.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS3.HTM

4. For as terribly as he's played, for the most part the team is better with Gilbert Arenas on the court. Gil should play but he should get the quick hook for turnovers.

dandridge: This is what a good coach should do with this team.

DO NOT PLAY YI OR HINRICH at all. START NICK YOUNG AT SG AND JAVALE MCGEE AT C. Run them with Wall. Play Booker and Seraphin a whole lot. Lose with young players.

Keep Gil's minutes up because one must hope he gets better numbers. With some luck, he'll get better and eventually will be good enough to be traded. This team is Wall's for better or worse.

I'd look to trade Hinrich, Thornton, Yi, and possibly Blatche. Same for Howard when he recovers.

This team is a lost cause but the future is in finding an efficient low post scorer and also working Seraphin and Booker in with McGee. Blatche might not be in the long range plans, unless he and Seraphin play well together. Blatche with McGee is too porous defensively.

The main things the Wizards need to do is decide on one PG or the other behind Wall. The lack of consistency at G is killing this team. Young should be the SG.

While much of what you said may happen down the road, it isn't where we are right now and I think some of this is over reacting on blaming Flip. Consider what I just posted about back to backs in general. Specially on the road back to backs. And that Wall can't stay healthy enough to stay on the damn court. And no Dray. And then account for the emotional fall after almost being LA on the road.

Bigger picture.

Flip has managed Gils comeback pretty well, Gils game has been rounding out nicely. Gil shooting below his career average from 3 is not on Flip.

McGee had a huge break out his year before he got clobbered.
Nick also had a huge break out this year also.

We just started
Kirk, Gil, AT, Booker and KS and of all those player, you wouldnt have expected it to be Gil who played poorly.

Wall, Gil, Howard, Dray and McGee with NIck and whoever else is playing well by then will look good.

[dandridge 10]

dandridge, I have ideas of what I think would be better than what I've seen out of Flip. Here goes:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... gni01.html
http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS6.HTM

1. Nick Young is by far the team's best SG. Start him at SG.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html
http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS15.HTM

2. For all his faults, Javale McGee is near the top of the NBA in FG%, ORB/min, and BLK/min. His per is 19.7. DO NOT be a fool and bench him after his improvements this season. Bench freaking Yi! Start McGee at C. Start Seraphin or Booker at PF when Blatche is out. Forget about Yi and Armstrong, and just give the young bigs all of the PF/C minutes.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS4.HTM

3. MOST IMPORTANT: Flip needs to recognize that Kirk Hinrich KILLS THIS TEAM WHENEVER HE IS AT SG OR SF. Kirk should only play PG. Period. For the most part, Kirk hurts this team. Flip's losing with a player who is marginally talented. I think Kirk needs to go. He's not a bad player but he's one PG too many.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS3.HTM

4. For as terribly as he's played, for the most part the team is better with Gilbert Arenas on the court. Gil should play but he should get the quick hook for turnovers.

dandridge: This is what a good coach should do with this team.

DO NOT PLAY YI OR HINRICH at all. START NICK YOUNG AT SG AND JAVALE MCGEE AT C. Run them with Wall. Play Booker and Seraphin a whole lot. Lose with young players.

Keep Gil's minutes up because one must hope he gets better numbers. With some luck, he'll get better and eventually will be good enough to be traded. This team is Wall's for better or worse.

I'd look to trade Hinrich, Thornton, Yi, and possibly Blatche. Same for Howard when he recovers.

This team is a lost cause but the future is in finding an efficient low post scorer and also working Seraphin and Booker in with McGee. Blatche might not be in the long range plans, unless he and Seraphin play well together. Blatche with McGee is too porous defensively.

The main things the Wizards need to do is decide on one PG or the other behind Wall. The lack of consistency at G is killing this team. Young should be the SG.

CCJ, I don't even know where to start on this.

First, I have no problem with starting Young at SG. However, be prepared with this board and fans going crazy about how our best player (Arenas) is coming off the bench and be prepared for Gil to start grumbling about it as the season and the losses continue. Also, you want to trade Arenas, but that is going to make Arenas real appealing to other teams when he is coming off the bench. Also, starting Young last night would not have made a difference. He couldn't make crap when he was in. And, you can't say his inept play was because he didn't start because he has been doing just fine heating it up off the bench. Also, as much as I haven't particularly like Hinrich on this team, he was one of the few players last night that played reasonably well.

Second, JaVale HAS been starting this season. And, you know what, this team has still sucked. Big whoop de do that he didn't start ONE night. Flip decided to reward the two players that showed hustle, grit and toughness the night before. McGee still got almost 30 minutes last night with Seraphin only getting 15. I doubt Flip starts Serpahin the rest of the season or that McGee's confidence has been shattered because he didn't start last night. Besides, he still got minutes and the Wizards still sucked while he was on the court.

Third, give Gil the quick hook for turnovers? You do realize that Gil that Gil has always been turnover prone? Gil would be getting A LOT of quick hooks. I'm sure this would sit real well with Gil and the fanbase, especially when he is one of the few players on this team that is capable of getting hot at any moment and keep us in the game despite his warts.

Fourth, stop playing Yi and Hiney. I'm fine with that too. But, you do realize that Booker played 30 minutes last night compared to Yi's 13 minutes and we didn't exactly light it up when he was in. You also realize that Hiney was actually one of the few player (aside from Thornton) who could actually shoot with reasonable accuracy last night. If he didn't play, I shutter to think what the final score would have been.

Regarding playing young players, you got to be blind if you don't see Flip is doing that. For christ sake, he started two rookies last night.

The rest of your post talks about personnel issues, which is a beef you should have with EG, not Flip.

CCJ, I agree with both Kenny Smith and Charles Barkely when the said the following a few weeks ago: If a team is constantly in games a losing by small margins, a new coach might make a difference, because an adjustment here or there could determine the outcome. However, when a team is getting blown out on a routine basis and is generally not competitive, its an issue with talent and/or effort. This team is getting blown out on a routine basis and is generally not competitive. Its because of the personnel on this team, not the coach. Heck, you even characterize this team as a "lost cause" given the personnel we currently have. Stop expecting Flip to make lemonade with apples.

[nate33]

CCJ, I don't even know where to start on this.

First, I have no problem with starting Young at SG. However, be prepared with this board and fans going crazy about how our best player (Arenas) is coming off the bench and be prepared for Gil to start grumbling about it as the season and the losses continue. Also, you want to trade Arenas, but that is going to make Arenas real appealing to other teams when he is coming off the bench. Also, starting Young last night would not have made a difference. He couldn't make crap when he was in. And, you can't say his inept play was because he didn't start because he has been doing just fine heating it up off the bench. Also, as much as I haven't particularly like Hinrich on this team, he was one of the few players last night that played reasonably well.

Second, JaVale HAS been starting this season. And, you know what, this team has still sucked. Big whoop de do that he didn't start ONE night. Flip decided to reward the two players that showed hustle, grit and toughness the night before. McGee still got almost 30 minutes last night with Seraphin only getting 15. I doubt Flip starts Serpahin the rest of the season or that McGee's confidence has been shattered because he didn't start last night. Besides, he still got minutes and the Wizards still sucked while he was on the court.

Third, give Gil the quick hook for turnovers? You do realize that Gil that Gil has always been turnover prone? Gil would be getting A LOT of quick hooks. I'm sure this would sit real well with Gil and the fanbase, especially when he is one of the few players on this team that is capable of getting hot at any moment and keep us in the game despite his warts.

Fourth, stop playing Yi and Hiney. I'm fine with that too. But, you do realize that Booker played 30 minutes last night compared to Yi's 13 minutes and we didn't exactly light it up when he was in. You also realize that Hiney was actually one of the few player (aside from Thornton) who could actually shoot with reasonable accuracy last night. If he didn't play, I shutter to think what the final score would have been.

Regarding playing young players, you got to be blind if you don't see Flip is doing that. For christ sake, he started two rookies last night.

The rest of your post talks about personnel issues, which is a beef you should have with EG, not Flip.

CCJ, I agree with both Kenny Smith and Charles Barkely when the said the following a few weeks ago: If a team is constantly in games a losing by small margins, a new coach might make a difference, because an adjustment here or there could determine the outcome. However, when a team is getting blown out on a routine basis and is generally not competitive, its an issue with talent and/or effort. This team is getting blown out on a routine basis and is generally not competitive. Its because of the personnel on this team, not the coach. Heck, you even characterize this team as a "lost cause" given the personnel we currently have. Stop expecting Flip to make lemonade with apples.

+1000

And that's not just directed at CCJ. That's to all the people who blame Flip for our performance. Flip may not be a great coach, but he has a track record that indicates he's certainly not a bad one. There are obviously other factors at player here, factors much bigger than the coach.

[AceDegenerate]

I was pretty clear before the season started that I agreed this team would not be very good if it was not healthy. The team has yet to be healthy, and with as many new faces as we have, has not developed any semblance of cohesion. The team is flat out bad.

Blaming Gilbert is no different than anyone else blaming Flip, or blaming Ernie.

Gilbert Arenas does not want to be here anymore than Wizards fans want him here. So the constant Trade Arenas, don't Trade Arenas is just pathetic at this point. Nobody is trading for a guy who scores less than 1 point per million dollars he is paid per season, it's just not happening. Either Gilbert succeeds with Wall as Wizard and Ted decides to keep him around, or he re-establishes his value and is dealt.

You can pretty much tell that Ted is holding out hope that 1 - he probably won't be paying Arenas next season with the lockout. And 2 - there will most likely be some sort of Allan Houston provision to drop a bad contract from your books after the lockout.

Gilbert is not the future of this franchise, he's not even the present anymore, he won't finish his contract here.

On the other hand, John Wall is on the fast track to becoming the next overpaid superstar with a bum leg on this squad, and there is nothing anyone can say or do to change that. He's playing on a squad with one of the worst injury histories in the league. He plays as wreckless (if not more so) as a young Antonio Daniels / Dwyane Wade. He will surely miss at least 1 season in his career, and it's on the Wizards Medical Staff to make sure it's not more than that.

Buck up, and I'd suggest taking a page out of your fellow Wizards fans books and follow another team this season as well; it's going to be a long one.

[WizarDynasty]

It's pretty clear that we are seriously struggling defensively at the small forward position especially defensive basketball iq. That's one of the most important positions on team defense and we never addressed it. yi is a marketing ploy, hinrich is a bench player, arenas is pretty much a tweener bench player, Armstrong is a toothpick..should only play in blow out games. The wizards biggest problem is they don't have successful plan that quickly accelerates their players offensive and defensive awareness. When leonsis invest money to find figure out the quickest way improve defensive and offensive awareness to that of the top level teams for his five starters, that's when we are headed in the right direction. he doesn't have a system and flip doesn't have the track record for improving a team from low offensive and defensive awareness to high awareness. i see basically no improvement except from arenas due to his huge amount of time off. Everyone else pretty much seems the same.
So its up to Leonsis to either find a coach, find a player like jason kidd, something. he needs a powerful figure that has demonstrated in the past, the ability to quickly accelerate low defensive awareness (the ability to diagnose and quickly respond correctly). Flip has failed to this so he needs to be replaced because this team is stocked with low awareness players outside of arenas and howard and at time hinrich. They don't have a proven leader with a track record of improving low awareness players rapidly both offensively and defensively.

[Ruzious]

Good post, Dandridge. It sure would be nice if the team was healthy for a long stretch - to really see if the pieces can mesh - not that that's a legit excuse for the team's poor play.

[DallasShalDune]

+a bunch of numbers for Dandridge. Great post. We are not a good team because we are young and we have a lot of random pieces that don't quite fit. Maybe when Kevin and Trevor are fully formed--maybe when Wall becomes a dominant force--maybe when McGee is fully formed and not just a blossoming starter--maybe when Blatche and Gil are healthy and able to play at their highest ability--maybe when we have a legit SF--maybe then we will be good. EG is working with what he has, as is Flip, as are our players. Hiney and Yi are not fits, but they were good moves for their price/length of contract. Yi might show Blatche some nice offensive moves, while Hiney can help Wall develop like Rose did (Gil helps with this, as well).

We need time, everyone. The only complaint I have is when Gil and Wall do not start together. They are our best players and should be on the court together. Other than that, Flip has done at least a C+ job with what he has.

[bullitz]

My thoughts on last nights game. The turnovers that the point guards have been making lately (more egregious last night) have been truly mind-boggling. The way the turnovers happen leads me to beleive that either Flip's offense provides horrible spacing, the young guys do not space themselves properly within the offense, or the players are such low quality offensive players that no one has to respect them on the court leading to incessant trapping of the only 2 or 3 legit offensive threats we have on the court at any given time.

This reminds me of a point made in Kevin's post in another thread that Gil and Wall are surrounded by such low quality players that they make them look bad. Wall can use his speed to force mis-matches and create passing lanes. Gil and Kirk have no such luxury. So, when he's out our offense looks horrible. We have no offensive flow at this point. Even when we score, it seems like it's due to a great individual play rather than through the offensive system. This is going to be a long year. Perhaps, Howard helps out a bit and we can re-distribute our talent more appropriately (i.e. Thorton coming off the bench, Yi not playing much at all). I won't hold my breath though.

[WizarDynasty]

Wall also has a very low awareness. if he were prepared from college, he would be pointing out to his team mates the offensive and defensive strategies that the top level teams are using against the wizards and more importantly designing ways on the court of how to attack a high level defense...instructing his players as leader should on the court where the strategic weakness of a sophisticated defense is at teh exact moment in time. Wall is suppose to be like a coach on the court. He is far far far from that right now. Right now Wall has a very low awareness both offensively and defensively just like the rest of the players. his only high awareness is when he going break neck speed and looking for the foul on a fast break.
Arenas major limitation and will always be his limitation is that he is a tweener shooting guard on defense. That can never be corrected except to have extremely gifted pg and sf.
he may have that in time with howard and Wall.
i expect howard to make dramatic improvement to the on court performance. mcgee is making small strides. love the instincts i see from seraphin as they at times are far far far ahead of mcgees.

[pineappleheadindc]

Ok.....let me unsticky this god-forsaken thread and hope that it drops off of the first page real quick.

That may have been the worst performance I've seen by a Wizards team ever. And I'm including the days of Ike Austin; Anthony Goldwire; etc.

[Wizards2Lottery]

On the other hand, John Wall is on the fast track to becoming the next overpaid superstar with a bum leg on this squad, and there is nothing anyone can say or do to change that. He's playing on a squad with one of the worst injury histories in the league. He plays as wreckless (if not more so) as a young Antonio Daniels / Dwyane Wade. He will surely miss at least 1 season in his career, and it's on the Wizards Medical Staff to make sure it's not more than that.

I am afraid of this as well. Wall's style of play and the history of this teams trainers and medical staff doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings.

[nate33]

Ok.....let me unsticky this god-forsaken thread and hope that it drops off of the first page real quick.

That may have been the worst performance I've seen by a Wizards team ever. And I'm including the days of Ike Austin; Anthony Goldwire; etc.

I think the Toronto game was worse. Worse because of the horrific lack of effort. This was really bad because of stupidity, but I at least got the feeling that most of the guys were trying out there.

[pineappleheadindc]

LOL - Nate, that's kinda like faint praise if you ask me.

[nate33]

LOL - Nate, that's kinda like faint praise if you ask me.

These guys should accept whatever "praise" they get, faint or no.

[hands11]

Ok.....let me unsticky this god-forsaken thread and hope that it drops off of the first page real quick.

That may have been the worst performance I've seen by a Wizards team ever. And I'm including the days of Ike Austin; Anthony Goldwire; etc.

I think the Toronto game was worse. Worse because of the horrific lack of effort. This was really bad because of stupidity, but I at least got the feeling that most of the guys were trying out there.

LOL. Stupid Effort. Is that what it has come to. Sounds like some progress at least

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

For anyone who turned off the game before it was over and missed this gem:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOB04HvFewA&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

For some reason, I was still watching. Luckily, I was rewarded by watching this one live