could Cleveland ever become attractive free agency spot?

RRT · Post #1 » by **RRT** » Thu Dec 9, 2010 8:06 am

bottom line is... we couldn't even get worthy free agents to sign, even when lebron was here...

weather... taxes... economy... local endorsements... market... the city itself... the team... the team legacy

literally none of those things work in our favor. only thing that we do have is, is a committed organization, which most people don't realize after the Dan Gilbert incident, and, usually players want their teams to become like the Spurs, and not actually sign with Spurs.

So, at end of the day, all we can hope for is to draft good, hope we can resign whoever we draft, and keep overpaying players for no reason...

Another day waiting for next year, wish I had a heart to be a bandwagoning idiot fan who only likes the teams that are winning...

But at least it makes me a really good gambler.

mcfly1204 · Post #2 » by **mcfly1204** » Thu Dec 9, 2010 5:11 pm

RRT wrote:bottom line is... we couldn't even get worthy free agents to sign, even when lebron was here...

I think that is kind of an unfair statement. Short of when we signed Larry Bruise, when did Cleveland really have cap space to sign a top tier free agent?

I think we could attract more free agents in the future if we build our young core, and then combine that with Byron Scott and his uptempo offense. Take into account the fact that we lack a number one on offense, and I would think someone might have their interest piqued.

tidho · Post #3 » by **tidho** » Thu Dec 9, 2010 5:38 pm

Will we ever get a top 5 NBA talent to sign here as a free agent? Probably not.

There are about 5 really attractive cities in the NBA and the rest really aren't much different than ours. I think you spent too much of the last 2 years listening to Knicks fans, lol.

Our city offers plenty many others don't, we have world class facilities, and an owner with deep pockets. That puts us pretty comfortably in the top half of the league. If we draft well we'll contend, if we don't we won't.

Triumph36 · Post #4 » by **Triumph36** » Thu Dec 9, 2010 5:48 pm

tidho wrote:Will we ever get a top 5 NBA talent to sign here as a free agent? Probably not.

There are about 5 really attractive cities in the NBA and the rest really aren't much different than ours. I think you spent too much of the last 2 years listening to Knicks fans, lol.

Our city offers plenty many others don't, we have world class facilities, and an owner with deep pockets. That puts us pretty comfortably in the top half of the league. If we draft well we'll contend, if we don't we won't.

This is the bottom line. The Cavs will need to draft their main core (ie: top 2-3 guys) and then will be able to use the draft, cap space, trades, and eventually the MLE to find complimentary pieces.

If this was baseball, it'd be a slightly different story. The city of Cleveland itself would never be attractive but Gilbert would be able to shell out big contracts. With the salary cap and bird rights, that's not really possible now. At least not for the big name guys.

LargeBabyDavis · Post #5 » by **LargeBabyDavis** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:45 am

I know what you mean. In Toronto is a nice big city but due to weather, borders, and taxes we couldent get a free agent without paying a ridiculous amount of money.

The Thunder are becoming the next Spurs and it's through drafting properlly. Im sure that if they continue to grow interest will arise.

doct3r dr3 · Post #6 » by **doct3r dr3** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:51 pm

you guys could probably count out joakim noah...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp16yBFlHxo[/youtube]

RRT · Post #7 » by **RRT** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:58 am

doct3r dr3 wrote:you guys could probably count out joakim noah...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp16yBFlHxo[/youtube]

he probably gon come out and say same thing bout Miami now...

SpinninHouse · Post #8 » by **SpinninHouse** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:11 am

players will sign anywhere if A) the team is good and B) they get paid $$$. point in case, in the summer of 2000 we had a ton of cap space to offer up two max contracts to FA's. despite being in a gigantic market in the heart of a world class city, we couldn't pay people to come to chicago. we ended up with ron mercer and brad miller lol. that was because our team was the worst in the league and the players didn't like our idiotic GM (crumbs krause).

if cleveland has a good team and money to spend, people will sign.

tundraknight · Post #9 » by **tundraknight** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:54 am

Well they are getting a Casino in 2012. :dontknow:

Triumph36 · Post #10 » by **Triumph36** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:10 pm

SpinninHouse wrote:players will sign anywhere if A) the team is good and B) they get paid $$$. point in case, in the summer of 2000 we had a ton of cap space to offer up two max contracts to FA's. despite being in a gigantic market in the heart of a world class city, we couldn't pay people to come to chicago. we ended up with ron mercer and brad miller lol. that was because our team was the worst in the league and the players didn't like our idiotic GM (crumbs krause).

if cleveland has a good team and money to spend, people will sign.

I agree with you somewhat but what you're saying only applies to certain groups of players. Getting MLE-esque players is not a huge issue and I think what you said applies to that sort of player.

But I thought the OP was talking about acquiring star-esque players. In that case, I don't really think players will sign unless the Cavs have an OKC-like core in place all on their rookie contracts AND a max contract for that player. To have an OKC-like core, the Cavs will basically have to trade everyone 25yo+ for as many draft picks as possible, be terrible for ~3yrs, and absolutely nail every one of their lottery picks. Oh and they will have to refrain from signing other players that will just take up cap space. That's pretty difficult to do.

Having a capped salary is pretty rough for small-mid market teams because it essentially prevents them from offering a star player the most money (unless the star player is already on that team and they have his bird rights ofc). IMO unless the Cavs have a core like I described above, the star players will pretty much always pick a major market over Cleveland.

kenneth9265 · Post #11 » by **kenneth9265** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:31 am

Cleaveland is a wonderful city why wouldn't a free agent want to play in Cleveland? The real question is what position the cavs needs most?

oikosnomos · Post #12 » by **oikosnomos** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:34 am

Nah...we couldn't even get people to come here when Lebron was here and we were good. You pretty much have to draft well and hope the player feels a sense of loyalty and connection over time. No free agent without direct ties to Cleveland is going to suddenly put the city at the top of their list. There are players that identify with a city like Cleveland because they grew up in a similar place with similar people. But most of the young players with high potential think about NY or vacation spots with the glitz and the glam. It's empty and shallow, but that is the way it is. There is no getting around it. Spurs developed a system and a got a good coach and draft smart and established themselves that way. OKC is doing the same. That is the only thing that will work for the Cavs. I think Dan Gilbert gets that though.

oikosnomos · Post #13 » by **oikosnomos** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:39 am

kenneth9265 wrote:Cleaveland is a wonderful city why wouldn't a free agent want to play in Cleveland? The real question is what position the cavs needs most?

Listen...I love Cleveland, and I think it is wonderful, but be honest with yourself, outsiders don't see it that way. Outside media and other fans (who have no idea) perpetrate the image that Cleveland is unbearable and Cleveland not being a big media city and not being particularly large can't counteract that image. It doesn't matter what the truth is behind it...its what people perceive Cleveland to be. So there is no getting away from it. You draft well and you let player decide for themselves. Most will still have the "grass is greener", but some might connect with the city. FA aren't going to change their situation to Cleveland....unless you overpay them.

oikosnomos · Post #14 » by **oikosnomos** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:46 am

kenneth9265 wrote:Cleaveland is a wonderful city why wouldn't a free agent want to play in Cleveland? The real question is what position the cavs needs most?

Listen...I love Cleveland, and I think it is wonderful, but be honest with yourself, outsiders don't see it that way. Outside media and other fans (who have no idea) perpetrate the image that Cleveland is unbearable and Cleveland not being a big media city and not being particularly large can't counteract that image. It doesn't matter what the truth is behind it...its what people perceive Cleveland to be. So there is no getting away from it. You draft well and you let player decide for themselves. Most will still have the "grass is greener", but some might connect with the city. FA aren't going to change their situation to Cleveland....unless you overpay them.

tidho · Post #15 » by **tidho** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:53 pm

oikosnomos wrote:...It doesn't matter what the truth is behind it...its what people perceive Cleveland to be. So there is no getting away from it. You draft well and you let player decide for themselves. Most will still have the "grass is greener", but some might connect with the city. FA aren't going to change their situation to Cleveland....unless you overpay them.

You're right that perception is reality. I think quality of city is completely overblown though. This is a concept started by New York Media and jammed down our throats by Knick fans for the last 7 years.

Until LeBron (and now it would appear Melo), franchise guys stayed with their franchise and everyone esle chased the money. We'll see if LeBron really started a trend of not, the danger is there, but its tooo early to say. Most likely money is going go continue to drive these decisions.

OSTMD · Post #16 » by **OSTMD** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:10 pm

The main reason why no free agents came here while lepuke was here was because he refused to commit long term. Everyone said they want to see what Lepuke does and then make a decision. Build a young core through the draft and then pay for a quality free agent that fits the needs for the team. Money talks!

Maternal · Post #17 » by **Maternal** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:40 pm

Most players like a warm weather city with low taxes. They also like a city with alot of capital which they can maximize. Cleveland simply is not that. Winning is not on the top of their lists. If so James would have stayed.

kenneth9265 · Post #18 » by **kenneth9265** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:45 pm

OSTMD wrote:The main reason why no free agents came here while lepuke was here was because he refused to commit long term. Everyone said they want to see what Lepuke does and then make a decision. Build a young core through the draft and then pay for a quality free agent that fits the needs for the team. Money talks!

If money talked lebron would of stayed in cleveland. I am pretty sure that there is an all star caliber player that wants to make a name for himself by being " the man" in cleavland...

Maternal · Post #19 » by **Maternal** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:14 pm

kenneth9265 wrote:
OSTMD wrote:The main reason why no free agents came here while lepuke was here was because he refused to commit long term. Everyone said they want to see what Lepuke does and then make a decision. Build a young core through the draft and then pay for a quality free agent that fits the needs for the team. Money talks!

If money talked lebron would of stayed in cleveland. I am pretty sure that there is an all star caliber player that wants to make a name for himself by being " the man" in cleavland...

Lebron makes more money in Miami.

kenneth9265 · Post #20 » by **kenneth9265** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:43 pm

Maternal wrote:
kenneth9265 wrote:
OSTMD wrote:The main reason why no free agents came here while lepuke was here was because he refused to commit long term. Everyone said they want to see what Lepuke does and then make a decision. Build a young core through the draft and then pay for a quality free agent that fits the needs for the team. Money talks!

If money talked lebron would of stayed in cleveland. I am pretty sure that there is an all star caliber player that wants to make a name for himself by being " the man" in cleavland...

Lebron makes more money in Miami.

Cleveland had full bird rights to Lebron that means that no other team could pay Lebron more money than the cavs. Lebron could made $22-$25 million a year from the cavs