Terrance Willams and the Playoffs

[Revolutionistt]

I dont get your point, making the playoffs doesnt help this team even if it means attracting free agents?

Name one free agent that is going to attracted by a team that gets routed in the playoffs, and clearly did not belong there? Carmelo Anthony?

What would help the team then? Having the worst record and NOT landing the first pick and having to rely on an unproven college player?

No, having natural growth of the rookies/young players, as well as accumulating another asset for the team.

You got it all wrong. I dont know how any true fan can say they dont want there team in the playoffs. Anything can happen in the playoffs. Dont even try to tell me otherwise because then Ill have to find all the playoff upsets of the past which I really dont feel like doing.

I'm saying catching lightning in a bottle this season and making the playoffs. This team is awful, I'm not calling to tank, I'm just saying this team should not make the playoffs and if they do, it will be at the detriment to the future of this team. No one is saying for them to tank...at all.

Whys your post have to be so long? Alright here it goes... You dont think free agents sign with teams that got trounced out of the playoffs? Look at Chicago this year they got Carlos Boozer.

You want natural growth of the young players, fantastic. But what does regular season growth do if they never smell the playoffs? How is the playoffs not a form of growth for young players?? Please tell me

Yes the team should not make the playoffs, but it would be nice if they did. Were the Giants supposed to make the playoffs in 2007? Were the Knicks supposed to make the playoffs in 99 and reach the finals? Upsets happen buddy. I hate to bash another team but the route your looking to take is that of the Clippers.... full of young talent and potential, no experience or leadership.

[jeff1624]

The Clippers are cursed.. there is no organization like the clippers period, so that comparison is invalid. Why not mention Portland or Oklahoma. If Portland hadn't been destroyed by injuries they'd easily be contenders and they built their team strictly through the draft and to do that you have to be mediocre for a few years.

In 2006 they got both Roy and Aldridge, 2007 they got Oden and were in position to draft Kevin Durant. In 2006 they were in position to draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Etc..

That's how you build. Not by peaking at mediocrity. Look at Philly, they were in the lottery in 07 and grabbed Thaddeus Young. Made the playoffs as a low seed in both 08 and 09 and didn't get very far and then had the #2 pick in 2010. Don't you think they'd be in a better position now if they had been in the lottery in 08 (could have had a shot at Rose, Westbrook, Mayo, Love, lopez etc) or 09 (Curry, Griffin, Evans etc) instead of being a low tier team and getting absolutely nowhere?

[Revolutionistt]

The Clippers are cursed.. there is no organization like the clippers period, so that comparison is invalid. Why not mention Portland or Oklahoma. If Portland hadn't been destroyed by injuries they'd easily be contenders and they built their team strictly through the draft and to do that you have to be mediocre for a few years.

In 2006 they got both Roy and Aldridge, 2007 they got Oden and were in position to draft Kevin Durant. In 2006 they were in position to draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Etc..

That's how you build. Not by peaking at mediocrity. Look at Philly, they were in the lottery in 07 and grabbed Thaddeus Young. Made the playoffs as a low seed in both 08 and 09 and didn't get very far and then had the #2 pick in 2010. Don't you think they'd be in a better position now if they had been in the lottery in 08 (could have had a shot at Rose, Westbrook, Mayo, Love, lopez etc) or 09 (Curry, Griffin, Evans etc) instead of being a low tier team and getting absolutely nowhere?

First of all you cant use "they are cursed" as a reason for the Clippers being bad, we dont live in Harry Potter world. As for not mentioning OKC, I did in fact mention that unless a player like Durant comes along again the draft will not help us. Portland, well yeah theyve done well and have been plagued by injuries, but even with a healthy Oden they wouldnt be much better. They were never a team in the running of free agency as the Nets have been. The whole point of trading away some of the best players in franchise history was to create cap space and sign players, not get high draft picks and save a ton of money to win 20 ball games. The Nets have all this money and trade assets but are doing nothing with it. The only way the Nets will improve is by either throwing the young players into the fighting pit from day one or to trade for players that we all know are good such as Melo. By getting the young players that critical experience it does two things, the team will either get better by themselves over time such as OKC (which by the way is a team that lost in the playoffs), or it makes the team more appealing for good players to sign with.

[jeff1624]

Well, if you use the clippers as an example, a team that has only been to the playoffs 7 times in it's 40 year history, I sure as hell am allowed to say that they are cursed and to think that we're going down that road is just foolish, considering the fact that we made the playoffs for 7 years straight.

Oh, yes a HEALTHY Portland team (not just Oden, I'm talking Roy and przybilla) would be contenders.. as they would be if they had drafted Durant and before you tell me that it's hindsight, that's not my point.. they were in position to draft Durant, which is all that matters.

To say they were never in a position to sign a marquee free agent.. that's because during their time with cap space, the best Free Agent was David Lee and not the David Lee that averaged 20-10.. it was the David lee that was just a solid player. The reason they didn't sign him was because he was restricted and Knicks threatened to Match any offers. They wanted Milsap.. but again restricted free agent. They were also in position to sign Hedo but he took more money and went to Toronto.. which left them with Andre Miller as their only option. You seem to forget that they only had a year or two of cap space before it all went to Roy and Aldridge's extensions. As for the playoff experience being indispensable.. why did you ignore my 76ers example?? Like I said earlier, they made the playoffs as a low seed for two years and went nowhere. wouldn't they be in a better position now if they had one of (Lopez, love, Westbrook, Mayo, Beasley, Rose, Gordon, gallinari) and another one of (Curry, Griffin, Evans, Rubio, Harden, Jennings) added to their core instead of those two wasted years?? It's not like Andre Igoudala and Thadeus Young are considered winners and they were in the playoffs in 08 and 09.

[Revolutionistt]

Well, if you use the clippers as an example, a team that has only been to the playoffs 7 times in it's 40 year history, I sure as hell am allowed to say that they are cursed and to think that we're going down that road is just foolish, considering the fact that we made the playoffs for 7 years straight.

Oh, yes a HEALTHY Portland team (not just Oden, I'm talking Roy and przybilla) would be contenders.. as they would be if they had drafted Durant and before you tell me that it's hindsight, that's not my point.. they were in position to draft Durant, which is all that matters.

To say they were never in a position to sign a marquee free agent.. that's because during their time with cap space, the best Free Agent was David Lee and not the David Lee that averaged 20-10.. it was the David lee that was just a solid player. The reason they didn't sign him was because he was restricted and Knicks threatened to Match any offers. They wanted Milsap.. but again restricted free agent. They were also in position to sign Hedo but he took more money and went to Toronto.. which left them with Andre Miller as their only option. You seem to forget that they only had a year or two of cap space before it all went to Roy and Aldridge's extensions. As for the playoff experience being indispensable.. why did you ignore my 76ers example?? Like I said earlier, they made the playoffs as a low seed for two years and went nowhere. wouldn't they be in a better position now if they had one of (Lopez, love, Westbrook, Mayo, Beasley, Rose, Gordon, gallinari) and another one of (Curry, Griffin, Evans, Rubio, Harden, Jennings) added to their core instead of those two wasted years?? It's not like Andre Igoudala and Thadeus Young are considered winners and they were in the playoffs in 08 and 09.

Im never going to accept that a team is cursed, and you feel they are, so lets forget about the Clippers. Lets look at Philly now. They made the playoffs, didnt do anything and arent any better. But only Iguodala was considered a really good player, nobody else. They made bad trades and free agent signings such as Elton Brand. The Nets could very well end up like the Sixers. But we have to hope they dont make the kinds of trades or signings they did. Id rather go the road of Philly the past few years, make the playoffs and take chances with trades and free agents rather than being at the bottom of the barrel and hoping for the next big thing out of college.

[Revolutionistt]

As for the playoff experience being indispensable.. why did you ignore my 76ers example?? Like I said earlier, they made the playoffs as a low seed for two years and went nowhere. wouldn't they be in a better position now if they had one of (Lopez, love, Westbrook, Mayo, Beasley, Rose, Gordon, gallinari) and another one of (Curry, Griffin, Evans, Rubio, Harden, Jennings) added to their core instead of those two wasted years??

Heres a good point, lets look at all those players.

Lopez, how good are the Nets? Love, how good are the Wolves? Westbrook, hes the exception on the list doing very well. Mayo, hows Memphis doing? Beasley, howd he turn out? Rose, how good are the Bulls? Gordon, on a cursed team as you say. Galinarri, do I need to say anything?

And for the second group. Curry, his team any good? Griffin, cursed. Evans, what have the Kings done? Harden, other exception on the list. Jennings, team is struggling.

None of those guys other than Westbrook have been impact palyers. Rose is a phenomenal player too but he wouldnt help the Sixers much. He landed in the perfect spot when Chicago won the lottery.

[vincecarter4pres]

Ok, but does missing the playoffs and having to rely on ANOTHER lottery pick help us beat anyone the following year? Or the year after that? Unless someone like Durant comes around again the draft isnt going to help us.... so just stop it.

Kyrie Irving is that dude.

I understand we're not even close to guaranteed to land him, but I'm saying...

[vincecarter4pres]

theres no gurantee that we get the 1st pick, remeber last year?...

I don't think it turned out all that bad, do you?

John Wall isn't living up to the hype, Evan Turner is looking a lot like all the negatives people said about him will be true unless he drastically improves his outside shot and it pains me to say that as one of his biggest fans for the last two years and Favors has shown a TON of potential and finally, worst case it looks like King will overpay and land Melo using Favors as the centerpiece if he ever happen to agree to come here, which doesn't look too likely.

Point being, even the 3rd pick has the potential to turn this franchise around, complete 180, within the next few seasons, especially if we land another high pick stud to go with him or we make a succession of trades to become insta-contender, which otherwise would never be possible.

[vincecarter4pres]

Thankyou for playin the shut your neck and post something sensible game.

[vincecarter4pres]

Yes it is, and not just for Lopez but all the players. I said Lopez because hes the most likely to be elite at his position.

All players?

Besides Lopez and Favors, not a single player on this roster is truly part of this team's core or future, none of them are important and all easily replaceable, hopefully so.

This roster as built is the Clippers...

[vincecarter4pres]

Yes the team should not make the playoffs, but it would be nice if they did. Were the Giants supposed to make the playoffs in 2007? Were the Knicks supposed to make the playoffs in 99 and reach the finals? Upsets happen buddy. I hate to bash another team but the route your looking to take is that of the Clippers.... full of young talent and potential, no experience or leadership.

These are all terribly terrible examples.

Football is an entirely different beast. Absolutely and infinitely so.

The Knicks?

That was a lockout season and they added an absolute prime Sprewell and Camby to an already proven and tough playoff squad with a truly underrated coach.

It was also the season after Jordan retired for the second time and the Bulls ended their reign and IIRC the Pacers suffered some key injuries.

Nothing even remotely close to a good comparison, or anything in relation to this horrid and decrepit club.

I predicted either 29 or 31 wins before the season began, even after acquiring Murphy and I think I overrated this team with optimism, or more so pessimism if you follow my philosophy and model of building a contender, or at least sustained top 4 seed playoff team.

The Clippers are a blackhole of destitute and epic failure like no other in professional sports, another shoddy reach.

Most teams in the NBA, through it's history have been built through the draft or some form of an immediate turnaround rebuild by trading consecutive high lottery pick player for established All Star/top players in the association, along with crafty free agent signings and small followup deals.

[vincecarter4pres]

Portland, well yeah theyve done well and have been plagued by injuries, but even with a healthy Oden they wouldnt be much better. They were never a team in the running of free agency as the Nets have been.

Not much better? Blasphemy.
Ever look at Oden's advanced stats, or just watch him on the court?
Dominant.
And this is as a sashimi raw player that averaged a ton of fouls per 36.
He will never be healthy, but if he had been he would have been a Dwight Howard like beast.
Roy couldn't/can't stay healthy either. When he was, one of the most underrated players in the league.
They are one of those classic could have been stories.
Healthy and with the right free agent signings they could have been a legit contender for maybe 7 to 10 seasons that I would have almost guaranteed a chip or two.

The whole point of trading away some of the best players in franchise history was to create cap space and sign players, not get high draft picks and save a ton of money to win 20 ball games.

This is what they'd like you to believe and they caught you with the hook in cheek.
Of course they wanted to sign Lebron, Wade, Bosh, maybe Amar'e, etc., but to believe that they cleared all that space for the purpose of building a winner is just ignorant.
Ratner was stuck so deep his eyeballs were covered in dirt.
He was clearing as much salary as possible to ensure he would lose as little as possible and sell the team without any financial commitment to albatross contracts of has been players that were hard to deal and unhappy with the state and goals of the franchise.
It was never about winning. It was about green. The bottom line. Cutting losses.
This team has always had a fair weather fanbase and trouble generating buzz and profit.
Please.

The Nets have all this money and trade assets but are doing nothing with it.

And thank god Billy hasn't made anymore boneheaded bass akwards moves like the Troy Murphy trade, but the season is young and we're mere days away from December 15th, be patient, he has 3 months to eternally ruin this team and believe in his ability to do just that.
I am cringing in anticipation of his deadline deal with Philly for Iggy once we lose out on Melo, figuring everyone else already realizes it's a foregone conclusion...

The only way the Nets will improve is by either throwing the young players into the fighting pit from day one or to trade for players that we all know are good such as Melo.

Ground breaking stuff right here.
You come up with this on your own?
E would be proud.

By getting the young players that critical experience it does two things, the team will either get better by themselves over time such as OKC (which by the way is a team that lost in the playoffs), or it makes the team more appealing for good players to sign with.

Ok, so you've just spent pages disagreeing with the same thing you're now agreeing with.
I'm lost...

[vincecarter4pres]

As for the playoff experience being indispensable.. why did you ignore my 76ers example?? Like I said earlier, they made the playoffs as a low seed for two years and went nowhere. wouldn't they be in a better position now if they had one of (Lopez, love, Westbrook, Mayo, Beasley, Rose, Gordon, gallinari) and another one of (Curry, Griffin, Evans, Rubio, Harden, Jennings) added to their core instead of those two wasted years??

Heres a good point, lets look at all those players.

Lopez, how good are the Nets? Love, how good are the Wolves? Westbrook, hes the exception on the list doing very well. Mayo, hows Memphis doing? Beasley, howd he turn out? Rose, how good are the Bulls? Gordon, on a cursed team as you say. Galinarri, do I need to say anything?

And for the second group. Curry, his team any good? Griffin, cursed. Evans, what have the Kings done? Harden, other exception on the list. Jennings, team is struggling.

None of those guys other than Westbrook have been impact palyers. Rose is a phenomenal player too but he wouldnt help the Sixers much. He landed in the perfect spot when Chicago won the lottery.

Oh my.

I'm seriously not even sure why I'm wasting my time responding to you.

I wish we could resurrect demens using you as the sacrifice.

[Revolutionistt]

VC4P if you think im going to answer all of that you are insane. But I know why so many ppl here disagree with me, youre all stat boys. You really think the lottery rookie class the last 2 years is so great why havent they been helping their teams win? I could care less that Love is a 20 and 10 guy his team is not winning anything and you cant tell me he would be helping Philly. And dont even try to give me these advanced stats bs about Oden. If he was healthy he would be a bust pure and simple. I have no faith in the guys abilities. Saying Oden would be like Howard is blasphemy my friend.

[jeff1624]

VC4P if you think im going to answer all of that you are insane. But I know why so many ppl here disagree with me, youre all stat boys. You really think the lottery rookie class the last 2 years is so great why havent they been helping their teams win? I could care less that Love is a 20 and 10 guy his team is not winning anything and you cant tell me he would be helping Philly. And dont even try to give me these advanced stats bs about Oden. If he was healthy he would be a bust pure and simple. I have no faith in the guys abilities. Saying Oden would be like Howard is blasphemy my friend.

So by that reasoning we would have been better off making the playoffs in 08 and missing out on Lopez, it's not like he has made us a contender or anything close to that.

And to say they haven't helped their team win is insane. Just because those players aren't capable of carrying their teams the first two years they're in the league, doesn't mean they aren't setting their teams up for success later on.

Lebron and Durant both missed the playoffs the first 2 years they were in the league, guess both of them were disappointments as well.

And if oden had stayed healthy, he'd easily be the 2nd best center in the league today. Even as a rookie, the guy was one of the best defenders and rebounders in the entire league. The reason he was labeled a bust by many was BECAUSE he couldn't stay healthy.. not because he couldn't play.

[Revolutionistt]

Rather than drag this out for no reason Im just going to make my point plain and simple. I prefer the route of winning as much as possible and gaining experience. And improving via trades and free agency by putting a team out there that has won and needs that extra player to push them over the top. The Nets are not that team yet, but if they make the playoffs Im not going to complain. I prefer that rather than going out to the arena every night and see my team lose by 20 plus points only to bring in another 19 year old that has no guarantee of being any good. I respect all of your views and opinions but Im going to defend mine as well.

[jeff1624]

I only have one question.. who's been cheering for L's?

[treiz]

Rather than drag this out for no reason Im just going to make my point plain and simple. I prefer the route of winning as much as possible and gaining experience. And improving via trades and free agency by putting a team out there that has won and needs that extra player to push them over the top. The Nets are not that team yet, but if they make the playoffs Im not going to complain. I prefer that rather than going out to the arena every night and see my team lose by 20 plus points only to bring in another 19 year old that has no guarantee of being any good. I respect all of your views and opinions but Im going to defend mine as well.

The best way to gain experience and learn from it is through trial and error

This is what I don't understand about sports fans in general, us as a community need to realize that it takes years to build a franchise (or in our case rebuild). Just be patient, let our guys go through some growing pains and we'll eventually get back up there.

All this sign through free-agency when it isn't needed or making trades when it will just do more harm than good is like putting duct tape on a leaky drain pipe, it's just short term fix to keep the missus quiet for a while.

[Revolutionistt]

I only have one question.. who's been cheering for L's?

Preferring another high draft pick over making the playoffs, you need to lose. Saying that making the playoffs is the worst thing for this team, theyd have to lose to not make the playoffs. Saying Nets fans should hang themselves if they make the playoffs. You see where Im going with this?

[jeff1624]

I only have one question.. who's been cheering for L's?

Preferring another high draft pick over making the playoffs, you need to lose. Saying that making the playoffs is the worst thing for this team, theyd have to lose to not make the playoffs. Saying Nets fans should hang themselves if they make the playoffs. You see where Im going with this?

Again, who's been cheering for L's?

The same people that know it would be a mistake to make the playoffs, including myself, cheer every damn game for this team to win and we get pissed off when we end up losing.