[Camelo Thread]**UPDATE MELO PUSHING FOR KNICKS**- Part 4

[RHODEY]

Interesting stat..

Wilson Chandler scored 27, Carmelo Anthony scored 31.

Wilson took 17 shots. Carmelo took 27 shots.

Interesting stat...

Wilson 5-7 from THREE. Carmelo 0-6 from THREE.

Interesting stat...

Knicks 125. Nuggets 121.

Interesting stat...

Knicks have won 13 of their last 14.


All 5 starters scored 16 or more. I think we've all pondered that thought, that Melo scores a lot but is not efficient, requiring a fair % of the shots while not being a great 3pt shooter. Plus he seems to take the rest of the team out of their offense. In many ways we have the old Patrick Ewing model, throw it into the big man and let him go one on one, or throw it out for the open 3 point shot. We just have way better spacing with Chandler on the floor while lacking interior presence on the defense.

The Knicks would be crazy to entertain any trade for Melo right now - the team is winning!....the team has chemistry.....And we do not lack for SG/SF on this team. Our hole is at center and a serviceable backup PG.

[Pharmcat]

if I was denver I would concede that I'm getting very little in return for melo. melo has all the leverage. he can choose where he wants to go. melo wants to go to the knicks. if I'm denver I take peanuts and trade him to anyone but the knicks. if I'm gonna get back very little from the knicks then why not just find another team? there will be a team out there who would trade a little just to get him for a few months. they know they won't re-sign him but maybe they get into the playoffs or whatever.

Go ahead. Knicks get to keep EVERYONE and sign him anyway in the summer. My guess is Ujiri has a "NBA GM'ing for Dummies" book and is having problems getting past the 1st chapter.

i thoight it was already established that in order to sign him in the summer, some combo of Azu, Chanlder, MLE would have to be renounced, 1st rounder traded, perhaps turiaf too so that we could accomodate the max salary

its not that much easier in the summer time

[moocow007]

The Knicks need to move Gallo for Melo. Why?

1. Paul is not happening. He can't threaten his way to NY because the Knicks won't have the cap space to sign him. If they tried, they'd have to let everyone but Fields, Amare and Melo walk (including Gallo), and they'd have to go all in for it, meaning destroying the team next year by letting Chandler walk, not signing anyone, moving Moz (will take assets to move his contract), ect. in 2011 with no guarantee they get Paul in 2012. It's not happening.
2. If they don't deal for Melo now, they won't be able to resign Chandler next year.
3. If they deal for Melo now, they can keep Chandler and use the MLE next year on a PF/C.

Chandler + MLE > Gallo

If the Knicks keep Gallo, they don't get the MLE, because Denver will probably not want Chandler in a trade given that they'd have to pay him next year. Gallo is necessary to make the deal happen now rather than in July 2011.

Also, Randolph's inconsequential. He's worth a late first, or the equivalent of somewhere around $3M. Dealing him to Houston is best though, because it allows the Knicks to get the 2012 pick back, allowing them to move the 2011 + 2013 picks for anything from Melo to a center.

Paul isn't happening period unless the NBA does a 180 and actually increases the salary cap.

[moocow007]

if I was denver I would concede that I'm getting very little in return for melo. melo has all the leverage. he can choose where he wants to go. melo wants to go to the knicks. if I'm denver I take peanuts and trade him to anyone but the knicks. if I'm gonna get back very little from the knicks then why not just find another team? there will be a team out there who would trade a little just to get him for a few months. they know they won't re-sign him but maybe they get into the playoffs or whatever.

Go ahead. Knicks get to keep EVERYONE and sign him anyway in the summer. My guess is Ujiri has a "NBA GM'ing for Dummies" book and is having problems getting past the 1st chapter.

i thoight it was already established that in order to sign him in the summer, some combo of Azu, Chanlder, MLE would have to be renounced, 1st rounder traded, perhaps turiaf too so that we could accomodate the max salary

its not that much easier in the summer time

Azubuike IS gone after the season. Did you really need to have doubts about that? And OBVIOUSLY Chandler is gone if it looks like Melo is signing. Turiaf may need to be shed but you know what? He's owed $4 million, the Knicks can include $3 million in cash in a trade, making him a $1 million player for a team with capspace.

You would rather have Turiaf and a 1st round pick than trading Gallinari or Chandler, along with Fields and a couple 1st rounders?

[Marty McFly]

Personally, i can't wait till this **** is over with. it makes enjoying the winning a little less fun. as long as we are better in the long run, it doesn't matter who goes; as much as i love our guys in the orange and blue.

[aq_ua]

Should have a "Caption This" for this picture...

"I really think JR Smith is finally gonna figure it out and become that second all-star for us"

[AllanHoustonFan]

lol @ denver trying to make the knicks trade more than they have to.

[NYKnick87]

Interesting stat..

Wilson Chandler scored 27, Carmelo Anthony scored 31.

Wilson took 17 shots. Carmelo took 27 shots.

Interesting stat...

Wilson 5-7 from THREE. Carmelo 0-6 from THREE.

Interesting stat...

Knicks 125. Nuggets 121.

Interesting stat...

Knicks have won 13 of their last 14.


All 5 starters scored 16 or more. I think we've all pondered that thought, that Melo scores a lot but is not efficient, requiring a fair % of the shots while not being a great 3pt shooter. Plus he seems to take the rest of the team out of their offense. In many ways we have the old Patrick Ewing model, throw it into the big man and let him go one on one, or throw it out for the open 3 point shot. We just have way better spacing with Chandler on the floor while lacking interior presence on the defense.

The Knicks would be crazy to entertain any trade for Melo right now - the team is winning!....the team has chemistry.....And we do not lack for SG/SF on this team. Our hole is at center and a serviceable backup PG.

Come on, this is one game. To be more specific, this is Melo's first game after missing two to knee tendinitis. Look at their careers.

And it's ironic that you mention the Patrick Ewing model - because although Ewing was a legit franchise player, he was never paired up with that second star in his prime to help push the Knicks over the top. Let's not make that same mistake again.

[kane2021]

Another thing I find interesting is the date. Unless (Mozgov, Mason or felton) is involved it was not us that had to wait. It was them. And if thats the case that means Harrington might be back.

[TdoubleE]

Interesting stat..

Wilson Chandler scored 27, Carmelo Anthony scored 31.

Wilson took 17 shots. Carmelo took 27 shots.

Interesting stat...

Wilson 5-7 from THREE. Carmelo 0-6 from THREE.

Interesting stat...

Knicks 125. Nuggets 121.

Interesting stat...

Knicks have won 13 of their last 14.


All 5 starters scored 16 or more. I think we've all pondered that thought, that Melo scores a lot but is not efficient, requiring a fair % of the shots while not being a great 3pt shooter. Plus he seems to take the rest of the team out of their offense. In many ways we have the old Patrick Ewing model, throw it into the big man and let him go one on one, or throw it out for the open 3 point shot. We just have way better spacing with Chandler on the floor while lacking interior presence on the defense.

The Knicks would be crazy to entertain any trade for Melo right now - the team is winning!....the team has chemistry.....And we do not lack for SG/SF on this team. Our hole is at center and a serviceable backup PG.

Thanks for the voice of reason. I'm never saying never on Melo because he does give you another option that commands a double-team, but unless Denver gives us a steal of a deal I want to see the younguns develop.

This is the first time Chandler and Gallo have played with a competent PG in their career. I want to give them a little more time in this system to see if they can develop some consistency.

[CHARLYMURPHY]

Wow with this news coming out, it feels like the nuggets were shopping melo around, knowing the knicks are the only team he wants to go to, just so when the nuggets approached us at the deadline they could play it off like were just another team and if we want him were going to have to give up alot. I really dont know if i would trade for him or not anymore.. i mean whats the point of he will come here in the summer anyway.

I mean really why trade? Whats the point of giving up a 1st rounder or AR, Gallo, maybe someone else. theirs really no point...

[NBA Fan 1234]

Not sure if this has been discussed...but if the Knicks do NOT trade Chandler to get Melo during the season (use other players instead, we can (re)sign him to the MLE if we are over the cap, correct?

[evevale]

That or Walsh, like any other guy with half a bit of pride, took offense to Ujiri's comment that the Knicks have nothing they want and went ahead and showed him that "sure we do". Walsh is generally a nice guy (as evidenced by him willing to go back and allow Phoenix to acquire a TPE by agreeing to a sign-and-trade even though he had already signed Amare without one) but I would think that even he has a breaking point. When you basically get a guy go on national TV and essentially say all your kids are stupid and ugly, what do you expect him to do? If I were Walsh I'd stick to my guns and don't do Denver or Ujiri any favors at all. They made their comments and their bed...let them stew in it. F**# them.

Agree 100%.

[CoolKids]

I dont want harrington back even if we keep gallo and chandler and fields

[Knicks218]

IMO amare will make melo better, every one said amare wasnt the answer now the same is being said about melo by some people but i think melo will suprise people like amare did.

[knicks742]

Wow with this news coming out, it feels like the nuggets were shopping melo around, knowing the knicks are the only team he wants to go to, just so when the nuggets approached us at the deadline they could play it off like were just another team and if we want him were going to have to give up alot. I really dont know if i would trade for him or not anymore.. i mean whats the point of he will come here in the summer anyway.

I mean really why trade? Whats the point of giving up a 1st rounder or AR, Gallo, maybe someone else. theirs really no point...

A couple of reasons why we do that trade now:

1. The most obvious is the uncertainty. One never knows what may or may not happen this summer but it would sure be nice to be able to say that we have him already.

2. Trading for him now means that we would not have to renounce the MLE and we would be able to resign any free agents we have that we did not trade (for example, Chandler or Azubuike). Of course, this is under the current CBA, but it would be huge if we had Melo and we still had an MLE to spend to get a starting center this summer.

3. Amar'e is having an MVP season. Getting Melo, again depending on what we give up, makes us a better team and it gives us a better chance to do something in the playoffs with Amar'e playing so well. We don't want to waste an MVP season if we have the chance to get him help this year and make some noise instead of waiting one more year.

[NYKnick87]

Acquiring more defensive players isn't gonna improve our defense. Outside of Amare, all our players play good defense. The real answer to improving our defense would be to boot D'Antoni in favor of a coach who actually has some type of defensive philosophy. Under D'Antoni, we're gonna beat teams by running them out of the gym and forcing them to play at our pace. The more highly skilled offensive players we have, the better. Melo is one of those. His availability makes him a must.

Very insightful post. Emphasis on defense, and implementing defensive strategies for the team isn't up to the players. That's on the coach, and D'antoni knows nada about defense. So if we're sticking with Mike D, we need as much offense as possible, and Melo brings that.

Still need a strong, defensive big tho to hold his own against offensive bigs. Can't allow Amar'e to keep banging and getting in foul trouble.

I can agree with the spirit of this argument, but it does not all fall only on the coach. We know MD's an inferior defensive coach, but you need players who want to play D. You can't beat a bunch of stiffs or selfish players into being an elite defensive team, but you can take talented players who want to play it and have a good level of D.

In recent games it is undeniable we have have often come out of the locker room and used defensive pressure to start the third quarter to get control of the game. This has been a very good second half team during this streak. While they can be porous in the lane at times and do not play great team D the whole game, we have seen this team impose its will on defense and take over.

So it has something and nothing to do with MD or who we have already. But we are undeniably letting people drive into the paint and we're going to have to remedy that. Again, I still have real hopes for Mozgov. A healthy Turiaf would be a blessing. It is not like we need lots of parts, but the ones we have must be available and ready to contribute.

We've looked good defensively in spurts. But we still remain a poor defensive team and D'Antoni still is too stubborn to make adjustments on the defensive end. Using today's game as an example, the lead we had in the first half remained tenuous throughout because D'Antoni insisted on Amare guarding him. The result? No D. Turiaf was there for a brief period of time, but not enough. How good our defense looks against playoff caliber teams still remains a question.

Like you, I also have high hopes for Mosgov. But I'm afraid that D'Antoni will fall in love with Amare at C (if he hasn't already) and as a result, let Mosgov rot on the bench. It's the same scenario as with Lee and Darko last year. My biggest concern is that Amare will burn out by the end of the season, and before his contract is over. It pisses me off when D'Antoni says things like "I see no difference between 37-38 minutes and 33-34". Absolutely ridiculous. The 37th and 38th minute will not be the same as the first and second. Especially at the pace of his system. The wear and tear will accumulate over the course of the season. If we get Anthony, or any other star who can score, I know for a FACT that D'Antoni will play him. That will undoubtedly take the pressure of Amare and Felton and be beneficial for us in the long run. Say we acquire a good defensive center - will D'Antoni play him enough, or at all? I'm not so certain.

[KnicksManiac]

Not sure if this has been discussed...but if the Knicks do NOT trade Chandler to get Melo during the season (use other players instead, we can (re)sign him to the MLE if we are over the cap, correct?

If the Knicks trade for Melo during the season, we can sign Chandler for whatever we want AND sign someone else (shot blocker like Dalembert or Kendrick Perkins) to the MLE. Yeah.

That's why we should pull the trigger on something like Randolph/Douglas/Curry/2014 First for Melo if we can now. If we don't, people are saying that we could just sign him without giving up anything this offseason but that really wouldn't be the case. We'd have to lose Chandler, Turiaf, and possibly Mozgov to have the cap space to sign Melo to the max.

[kane2021]

Not sure if this has been discussed...but if the Knicks do NOT trade Chandler to get Melo during the season (use other players instead, we can (re)sign him to the MLE if we are over the cap, correct?

(if we trade now using players other than wilson)

We wont even need to use the MLE. We will have our bird rights. We can resign wilson and use the MLE on someone else.

[knicks742]

Not sure if this has been discussed...but if the Knicks do NOT trade Chandler to get Melo during the season (use other players instead, we can (re)sign him to the MLE if we are over the cap, correct?

Under the current CBA, we can resign him to anything we want because we have his bird rights. In addition, we would still have the MLE. It would be hugely beneficial for us to get him via trade instead of free agency from a salary cap perspective.