[Camelo Thread]**UPDATE MELO PUSHING FOR KNICKS**- Part 4

[DocZaius]

I'm seeing alot of Melo is slightly better than Chandler thought in this thread.

Have we not learned the lesson last year when people said Lee > Amare?

Once again, I want to believe Chandler has stepped it up to the next level, but I just don't know yet.

I want to see him do it against elite defenses such as the 2 teams coming up next.

[dantian]

it's myopic to think offense would not be the problem. come playoff time, against good teams, in the 4th quarter, people will stop you. more often than not, 1-on-1 scoring by the likes of Kobe, Melo, Wade, Amare would be the most viable option left.

in other words, for regular seasons, NYK don't need no Melo to be a good team. but they need him to be a true contender!

[Clyde_Style]

Perhaps we can revisit this in a week and see how the whole team plays. But I never wanted to say Melo is not better, but that you can't remove too much to get him without ruining depth, chemistry and balance.

Perhaps it is an off-season add-on in which case we use this year to develop who we have and then know exactly where we stand.

But I know Melo wants to move and extend his contract this year so I understand the probabilities.

I'm not in disagreement with wanting Melo, but I am concerned about depth and cap flexibility in the future.

That pretty sums up why I can say he is not the answer alone, especially if we have no depth in the C and PG positions.

First, if we did get Melo this season, would there be a major adjustment period? Probably. Doable? Sure.

Second, does adding Melo while still having weakness in the paint defensively and no one to spell Felton make us a championship contender this year? You tell me.

If it doesn't and we can sign him in the off-season, that may be best. But again, I know that may not be how it would go down.

[cgmw]

I am not sure "concerned" is the right word because that insinuates to the casual reader something negative when its really more or less "curious excitement"...

I am VERY curious to see how the Knicks fare but also nervous because of the HEAVY minutes Amare & Felton are logging with a short bench. So much of the offense is on their shoulders with 37-38 min play on this winning streak, one wonders who will step up during that challenging 2 month stretch vs. some great teams.

The heavy minutes for Amare & Felton is definitely our biggest problem, but hopefully it won't rear itself until much later in the season.. If either one goes down, so goes the Knicks. Then again, we do have two exceptionally talented young bench players who would be asked to step in. Unfortunately, neither Anthony Randolph nor Toney Douglas is ready to step in and win games against this type of competition.

Assuming they stay healthy, I'm really looking forward to see the Felton/Amare combo go up against Rose/Boozer & Jameer/Dwight in the East, and then Deron/Milsap & Parker/Duncan in the West.

[cgmw]

Perhaps we can revisit this in a week and see how the whole team plays. But I never wanted to say Melo is not better, but that you can't remove too much to get him without ruining depth, chemistry and balance.

Perhaps it is an off-season add-on in which case we use this year to develop who we have and then know exactly where we stand.

But I know Melo wants to move and extend his contract this year so I understand the probabilities.

I'm not in disagreement with wanting Melo, but I am concerned about depth and cap flexibility in the future.

That pretty sums up why I can say he is not the answer alone, especially if we have no depth in the C and PG positions.

First, if we did get Melo this season, would there be a major adjustment period? Probably. Doable? Sure.

Second, does adding Melo while still having weakness in the paint defensively and no one to spell Felton make us a championship contender this year? You tell me.

If it doesn't and we can sign him in the off-season, that may be best. But again, I know that may not be how it would go down.

Anybody who thinks a shallow team with no center is winning a championship this year based off Amare & Melo is kidding themselves. But remember: both superstars are in the height of their primes, and the Knicks are still well armed with flexibility and youth to build for the future.

You simply cannot pass up the opportunity to add Carmelo Anthony. The question isn't WHETHER you do it. The question is simply when and how.

[Knick4Real]

If you are getting 15 or more PPG from your other three starters, you don't need to gut the team to get 25 points from one guy who may ruin the game for the rest of the cast. It is illogical to assume Melo is going to become a player who makes everyone around him better when he has only marginally shown such a quality.
.

Sup guys first post here. Ive been on this site since the whole lebron fiasco started earlier this summer. Clyde I enjoy reading your posts, you're one of the more level headed individuals here. I do have to say tho I'm all for acquiring Melo as long as our core pieces remain in tact (maybe AR curry buike 2014 pick for melo) and then resign chandler using our bird rights this off season or sign and trade him for other pieces we need (center, pg etc). One thing i learned this offseason is that you cant just add and subtract statistics when it comes to acquiring players, especially star players. I thought the Stat signing for the max contract vs letting lee go for a lesser valued contract was a terrible move for us because i just looked at the numbers. Lee shooting 55% for 20ppg to go along with almost 12rebs and 4 assts vs amares 24 pts 8 rebs and 2 assts. Of course this is a completely different team than last yrs but still i dont think we'd be where we are now with lee instead of stat. Star players change the dynamics of a game past what the numbers will show you (forcing double teams, leadership, clutch plays etc etc). Carmelo has a rep for being a volume scorer, to some extent that is true but hes shooting 46% for his career which isn't terrible for a small forward (gallo's at 40% this season and 42% overall). Also melo shot 50% for the whole 07-08 season which shows you that if he wanted to he could be an efficient scorer (maybe playing along side an all star power forward would make things easier for melo, after all he's never played with a dominant big man before).
Defensively speaking Amare was never known for his defense in phoenix, but his attitude towards defense has seemed to change here in NY. He still isn't a great defender but he puts effort into it and gets timely stops. That's what i'd expect from Melo, he's never going to be an elite defender but if he truly wants to be here, he'll put in the work just like Amare has. And lets face it, with D'antoni as coach we're probably always gonna be in the bottom half of the league defensively, which is also why i think with him as coach we'll be lucky to even advance to the second round.
The league is all about talent and chemistry, if you put the boston starting 5 on separate teams they all would be (have been) been 20ppg scorers and all stars. Same can be said with the lakers- odom, artest, gasol, kobe all are or have been all stars, orlando with lewis howard nelson and carter and even the spurs with duncan ginobili and parker. Come playoff time you absolutely need that second star player to advance.
as far as chemistry goes, its unpredictable.. we didnt know coming into this season how felton, amare and the rest of the new comers would gel together, fortunately for us it worked out. You can try to analyze all you want but theres no way of predicting chemistry until they actually play together. As long as we dont give up too much theres no reason to not pull the trigger for melo, but fortunately for us Donnie's a smart GM and he'll make the right move.

Now let me STFU and GTFO

GOOD FIRST POST!

Welcome to the board.

[stuporman]

I agree the Knicks should not overpay for Melo and it looks like they probably won't have to. Although even if they do make a mid season deal for Melo using 2 or 3 assets to get him the Knicks probably would still be an improved team after it. Sure I prefer to get him via FA and keep all the assets but it might not quite go that way and I do trust Donnie at this point more than internet bobble heads.... No offense intended, so if he makes the deal I give him the benefit of the doubt. He's made many more good decisions than bad ones here in NY imho.

Title contender? Probably not this season. But right now they are a playoff team with second round potential this season and a long shot for the conference finals. With Melo on the roster even with the subtractions in a mid season deal their second round potential goes way up and their conference finals 'long shot' does shorten quite a bit. He just makes the Knicks that much more of a dangerous team in the last 5 minutes of every game played and that is where games are won.

Even if the scenario plays out this way do we doubt that Walsh can fill the gaps with quality role players no matter the cap situation over the next two offseasons? At this point based on his job here so far I don't doubt he can. I'd rather have the two take over players in the fold and figure out how to fill out the roster than wonder if we are going to get a shot at that second take over player ever again.

He was voted a top ten current player by a poll of 75ish people at a professional level around the game of basketball and it was for a reason. He's pretty dam good. Although it feels really good to be coming from a position that the Knicks aren't desperate for him. They could in fact lose out on him and still grow better from within or from additions. That is a position of power.

[Knick4Real]

I remember watching the late 90's KNICKS in the NBA finals, with Patrick Ewing forced to sit the entire series on the bench due to an injury. We rode the back of Ewing his entire career. But when it counted the most, he couldn't save us. We lost!

I remember watching this KNICKS-Nuggets game, holding my breath hoping that STAT didn't get that 2nd technical, or that 6th foul. If he had, would we really be 16-9 right now?

Point is, even though STAT is an incredibly talented player and we have a team playing exceptionally well, we NEED a 2nd star. Especially if STAT gets a Ewing type injury, or gets ejected or fouls out of a game. Then what??

For as good as it sounds in the movies, elite teams aren't made of talented but scrappy roll players. Elite teams are made of ELITE players. Boston didn't become elite until it added KG next to Pierce. Same formula. So when you have a gift wrapped opportunity to add an elite player like Carmelo Anthony, YOU DO IT!

Do we give up the farm to get him? OF COURSE NOT! And if it's true that he told Denver after the game he will ONLY sign an extension with the KNICKS and no one else, we won't have to sell the farm either. Denver will either accept the modest package we offer, or they lose him for nothing in the summer. Either way, Melo becomes a KNICK.

Right now, a package of Curry, AR, Buke, Walker and a pick might get it done. Again, if Melo really said KNICKS or nothing, we're fully in control. So if you can sign Melo for basically filler, that makes it all the more necessary to do so.

Melo would be an excellent 2nd option to STAT. Melo would make it impossible for teams to triple team STAT, since it would just leave Melo wide open. Melo would get star type calls from the refs. And adding a star of Melo's caliber just elevates the respect level of the KNICKS around the league. Players would take us much more seriously and would want to come here.

Right now we have a really good playoff team. But we have to look beyond the 2nd round. Getting Melo is a no brainer, especially since it might only cost pennies on the dollar by the deadline. Get it done Donnie!

[Clyde_Style]

I agree the Knicks should not overpay for Melo and it looks like they probably won't have to. Although even if they do make a mid season deal for Melo using 2 or 3 assets to get him the Knicks probably would still be an improved team after it. Sure I prefer to get him via FA and keep all the assets but it might not quite go that way and I do trust Donnie at this point more than internet bobble heads.... No offense intended, so if he makes the deal I give him the benefit of the doubt. He's made many more good decisions than bad ones here in NY imho.

Title contender? Probably not this season. But right now they are a playoff team with second round potential this season and a long shot for the conference finals. With Melo on the roster even with the subtractions in a mid season deal their second round potential goes way up and their conference finals 'long shot' does shorten quite a bit. He just makes the Knicks that much more of a dangerous team in the last 5 minutes of every game played and that is where games are won.

Even if the scenario plays out this way do we doubt that Walsh can fill the gaps with quality role players no matter the cap situation over the next two offseasons? At this point based on his job here so far I don't doubt he can. I'd rather have the two take over players in the fold and figure out how to fill out the roster than wonder if we are going to get a shot at that second take over player ever again.

He was voted a top ten current player by a poll of 75ish people at a professional level around the game of basketball and it was for a reason. He's pretty dam good. Although it feels really good to be coming from a position that the Knicks aren't desperate for him. They could in fact lose out on him and still grow better from within or from additions. That is a position of power.

No offense at all. I trust Donnie in these matters more than myself and anyone else here. I can warm up to Melo fast provided we do everything we can to build from within too. For instance, I have not given up on AR. Do I expect anything? I don't really go there with him. But I do expect Mozgov to be for real. But there is an invisible line in the sand you have to cross at some point where the guys you want to develop won't give you what you need and you need to go elsewhere.

But, so far, patience has been a great equalizer for this team as the team as a whole has stepped up. We are in a far greater position of bargaining power to add to this team than at any time in a decade. I know we may need to add another player and if he wants to come I will not be anti-Melo. I have no skin in being right about anything. I just want this to become a deep team that will wipe out our opponents in a cruel, merciless fashion. More assassins can indeed help.

[rasta_marley]

That game on tnt vs miami should be a good one...

[knicksNOTslick]

All I can say is... I'm glad I'm not making the decision because I'm really 50/50 right now. I would like to keep Amare, Felton, Fields, Gallo and Chandler but at the same time, I would be ok if we lose one of them, just as long as my hands are completely washed and I had nothing to do with it. Fields, Gallo and CHandler, each have bright futures but won't have the potential of Melo... and each of them are keepers to me so far but we have to give to get.

[drj]

To me the guys we should look to package are Gallo and Randolph (possibly routed elsewhere for a 1st).

Gallo should go because he's a poor fit alongside Melo. Gallo + Melo = two mediocre defenders at the 3/4, and not enough shots to go around. Chandler is a much better fit alongside Melo because Chandler can defend and contribute in other ways.

Randolph should go because he's a bonehead. Maybe he can succeed elsewhere, but it seems like he's not going to see the floor for us.

Felton-Fields-Melo-Chandler-Amare is a really nice balanced lineup.

[HarthorneWingo]

I don't see why either has to go - that is, unless Donnie and Mike think we can make a real run at the eastern conference finals and they agree that we need Melo to do it. Even then, it seems to me that we have Denver by the conjones. Either they take our offer (Bill Walker and AR, etc.) or we'll wait and get him for nothing after the season and they get nothing.

[DeenNY31]

Chandler

Chandler is just not a small player, he is very talented obviously but he has a pretty low bbal IQ and still struggles with shot selection, he's good for like 3 boneheaded shots a game.

Gallo is just a more aware and smarter overall player. He knows how to draw contact to get to the line, he knows when to pass and help his teammates rather than force a show, he knows how to take a charge, etc.
Plus I still beleive Gallo has a higher ceiling than Chandler and his best basketball is still ahead of him

[Twisted]

Felton-Fields-Melo-Chandler-Amare is a really nice balanced lineup.

We'd just have to hope that Felton and Chandler could keep up their three-point shooting. The reason some prefer to keep Gallo is because we wouldn't have a pure shooter in the starting line-up without him. And D'Antoni's system needs shooting threats.

But yes, that's a nice line-up.

[drj]

Felton-Fields-Melo-Chandler-Amare is a really nice balanced lineup.

We'd just have to hope that Felton and Chandler could keep up their three-point shooting. The reason some prefer to keep Gallo is because we wouldn't have a pure shooter in the starting line-up without him. And D'Antoni's system needs shooting threats.

But yes, that's a nice line-up.

You're right that there is no 3pt specialist in the lineup. But I'm not sure Gallo is the answer: we all call him a pure shooter but his percentages have never actually been that great (around 38% from 3 if memory serves, which is decent but hardly great). Maybe Mayo becomes the missing piece ??

Anyway with this lineup I'm thinking Felts-Fields-Chandler can do enough to keep the defenders honest, and Amare and Melo will take the bulk of the shots anyway.

[duetta]

Under the current CBA, we can resign him to anything we want because we have his bird rights. In addition, we would still have the MLE. It would be hugely beneficial for us to get him via trade instead of free agency from a salary cap perspective.

Not really. Not if we still plan on being 2012 players. I don't think he'd come to New York, but I'd trade everyone on this roster, and especially Melo (if he were a Knick), for Dwight Howard - and he has yet to extend.

[Dr. Detfink]

Dude, if Memphis who is desperate for talent is making Mayo available, I mean welcome to the Santonio Holmes dilemma. Just something doesn't sound right.

Looking at that line up, the Knicks are small...and as the Lakers proved, you win with size. I agree with packaging Gallo IF you can sell me that the Knicks get some size inside. Cause 6'8" in this league is not what it was in the 80s...

[Dr. Detfink]

This is a run and gun offense and Melo alongside Felton and Stat can easily drop 28 & 10 every night. The Knicks will never be a great defensive team because of the system but their turnovers ignite the offense. Also the Knicks have a finisher should teams triple cover Stat and Felton.

Marc Gasol might balance the Knicks but is he really going to be satisfied as the #4-5 option and still be effective? Tough sell all around.

[Draft Master J]

The Pacers could give Denver their 1st (top-three protected) if Anthony Randolph is shipped to Indy. Assuming, of course, that the Nuggets would prefer our 1st to Randolph.