[Camelo Thread]**UPDATE MELO PUSHING FOR KNICKS**- Part 4

[Justdatdude]

Chandler

Chandler is just not a small player, he is very talented obviously but he has a pretty low bbal IQ and still struggles with shot selection, he's good for like 3 boneheaded shots a game.

Gallo is just a more aware and smarter overall player. He knows how to draw contact to get to the line, he knows when to pass and help his teammates rather than force a show, he knows how to take a charge, etc.
Plus I still beleive Gallo has a higher ceiling than Chandler and his best basketball is still ahead of him

These are the type of posts that I don't understand. You say Chandler has a low bball IQ, still struggles with shot selection, and he's good for like 3 boneheaded shots a game. Tell me this. If the guy is shooting 48% from the floor, 37% from deep, and 83% from the line, how does his low bball IQ effect us in a negative way? Name 1 good player that doesn't take a few bad shots a game? In fact, besides Landry Fields who just differs from pretty much every player in the league, name a player who doesn't take at least 1 bad shot a game? If he's shooting 13 times a game and scoring at a 48% clip, does his 3 bad shots a game really effect us?

Then you go on to praise Gallinari for being a smarter player. On what end is Gallinari actually a smarter player? Is it with his offense where the 6'10 player is shooting 40% from the field and despite being an extremely intelligent player, his field goal percentage has decreased considerably every year he has been in the league? Does his offense show high IQ because 50% of his shots are from deep and he's shooting at a 38% clip from deep? Isn't it weird how people say Wilson can't shoot 3s and need to stop shooting 3s, despite shooting 37% from deep, meanwhile a lot of people on this board encourage Gallinari to shoot 3s because he's 1% higher? Maybe his high IQ shows in his 5.7 freethrow attempts per game because certainly it doesn't show in any other area on the offensive end, though somehow someway people come to this conclusion that he's some great all around player...Defensively, Gallinari isn't on Chandler's level so I'm not even going to get into that.

Why don't we just say this and everyone just be honest, instead of fooling themselves into believing that certain things are true, though its false. People have a favorite between Chandler and Gallinari. That's OK. Its nothing wrong with that and everyone has favorite players on their team. If Gallinari is your favorite or one of your favorite players on the team, you would rather keep him than Chandler. If Chandler is your favorite or one of your favorite players on the team, you would rather keep him than Gallo. That's really what it comes down to because the arguments that a lot of people are making are absolutely foolish. Never have I seen a player get hated on so much, despite scoring 17 points, grabbing 6 rebounds, and blocking 2 shots and that's simply from the 3rd wheel. SMH.

[Justdatdude]

The summer of 1996 the Knicks were at a crossroads. Having some cap space to spend they opted to instead of do what it takes to get the guy who takes over games and likely would have put the Knicks over the top and possibly secure a title or two in the waning years of the Ewing era even though that player really wanted to be here. Instead thought they'd get cutesy and pay less for a less established player and hope that the added 'scoring' would be the difference.

It wasn't.

To be a playoff success a team needs players who take over games against the best of opponents. The Knicks have one. They need at least two. Will they do what it takes to get that player? Or will they get cutesy and hope that a less established player will be the difference? I love the young guys the Knicks have. Gallo, Chandler, Fields all of them. Great players and great teammates.

Unfortunately I also have seen them disappear at times and other times get overwhelmed by greater players. They have stretches of bad games where they struggle for 3-4 games, sometimes more. In a best of 7 series, that could be the end of your season. A true superstar might struggle one game, but the next bounce back. Take over games against the best of opponents most nights, not occasionally.

Tonight the Knicks got the best of the Nuggets despite the basket for basket showdown in the 4th quarter between Amar'e and Melo. The difference was Amar'e had the better supporting cast this night. Come game 4, 5, 6 and 7 of a playoff series the Knicks will be playing the best teams in the conference, in the league. I want that second player who can take over games. Amar'e might be in foul trouble, he might be hobbled, he might have a poor shooting night, he might be battling the best big man in the league and not able to to carry a team every night like he has this recent streak. Heck even is he does he still might need a side kick who shows up every game and pours in another 25ppg every game of the 7 game series to be the difference between winning and losing to the best teams in the league.

Having a side kick who can get that from every possible place on the court in isolation or in the flow of the offense while battling likely one of the best SFs in the league is what will be needed to win those games late in the game, late in the season and late in the series. Gallo is good, but he disappears sometimes and he gets in his 4 game funks. Chandler is good, but he also disappears sometimes and gets in his 4 game funks. I want that guy who even though hes playing the best in the league will show up game in, game out.

Look at game logs and see which players shows up game after game. Which player rarely has bad back to back games, let alone stretches of 3, 4 or more games where they just don't show up. Does this mean that our current young players can't become one of those players who show up game after game? They could very well become that. Although the Knicks have an established player who has a track record of taking over games deep into the playoffs who wants to be here. Let's hope they don't get cutesy again.

It's will be easier to find that last piece, that defensive center, that back up PG than it will be to find that player who takes over games well into the playoffs against the best the league has to offer. I hope our young players develop and grow but if that second take over player can be had for relatively pittance, you got to get him.

Now is the time to do what it takes, which to the Knicks advantage is looking like less and less as every day passes and might even wind up being practically nothing but paper. That's right, do what it takes... not get cutesy. The crossroads..... they are upon us.

I agree the Knicks should not overpay for Melo and it looks like they probably won't have to. Although even if they do make a mid season deal for Melo using 2 or 3 assets to get him the Knicks probably would still be an improved team after it. Sure I prefer to get him via FA and keep all the assets but it might not quite go that way and I do trust Donnie at this point more than internet bobble heads.... No offense intended, so if he makes the deal I give him the benefit of the doubt. He's made many more good decisions than bad ones here in NY imho.

Title contender? Probably not this season. But right now they are a playoff team with second round potential this season and a long shot for the conference finals. With Melo on the roster even with the subtractions in a mid season deal their second round potential goes way up and their conference finals 'long shot' does shorten quite a bit. He just makes the Knicks that much more of a dangerous team in the last 5 minutes of every game played and that is where games are won.

Even if the scenario plays out this way do we doubt that Walsh can fill the gaps with quality role players no matter the cap situation over the next two offseasons? At this point based on his job here so far I don't doubt he can. I'd rather have the two take over players in the fold and figure out how to fill out the roster than wonder if we are going to get a shot at that second take over player ever again.

He was voted a top ten current player by a poll of 75ish people at a professional level around the game of basketball and it was for a reason. He's pretty dam good. Although it feels really good to be coming from a position that the Knicks aren't desperate for him. They could in fact lose out on him and still grow better from within or from additions. That is a position of power.

[cgmw]

No offense at all. I trust Donnie in these matters more than myself and anyone else here. I can warm up to Melo fast provided we do everything we can to build from within too. For instance, I have not given up on AR. Do I expect anything? I don't really go there with him. But I do expect Mozgov to be for real. But there is an invisible line in the sand you have to cross at some point where the guys you want to develop won't give you what you need and you need to go elsewhere.

But, so far, patience has been a great equalizer for this team as the team as a whole has stepped up. We are in a far greater position of bargaining power to add to this team than at any time in a decade. I know we may need to add another player and if he wants to come I will not be anti-Melo. I have no skin in being right about anything. I just want this to become a deep team that will wipe out our opponents in a cruel, merciless fashion. More assassins can indeed help.

Right. The idea is... Yes, trade the house for Garnett & Allen, but hold on to some furnishings like Perkins and Rondo.

[Johnny Firpo]

Me pesonally, I keep Will though. His defense is better than Gallo, and although he isnt the shooter Gallo is, he can score just as affectively

No, he can't. There is a significant gap between their scoring efficiency. Anyway, if the Knicks truly want to be a top contender, i think they may have to keep both of them.

[alphad0gz]

Can't believe there are folks comparing Chandler to 'melo. Wil had a career game, no doubt. He's also on a nice roll but if you go back to the last 16 games of last year, Gallo had a better run. All I'm saying is that there isn't enough of a history to suggest what either of these guys will ultimately be. With Anthony, you know what he is. He is a tough player who will allow Amare to log fewer minutes because he can shoulder the load. He has the best mid-range game in the league and a willing passer. He would be good for us. That being said, I would rather not trade any of our current starters. Gun to my head, I probably trade Wil because their games are sort of redundant.

Clyde...

Nothing to defend about MD, because in terms of defense his philosophy is hardly defensible.

Exactly what do you know about MD's defensive philosophy? Serious question. When I watch the games and listen to the coaches, it seems apparent to me. We are getting stops at the right time and this defense is geared to create turnovers, for obvious reasons. It's a trade off. I do get tired of all the criticism aimed at him because he has a different approach. His teams won big and came close to the brass ring. It wasn't lack of defense that beat him. It was injuries, some bad calls, and some bad luck. The West was tough as hell in those days.

[Johnny Firpo]

These are the type of posts that I don't understand. You say Chandler has a low bball IQ, still struggles with shot selection, and he's good for like 3 boneheaded shots a game. Tell me this. If the guy is shooting 48% from the floor, 37% from deep, and 83% from the line, how does his low bball IQ effect us in a negative way? Name 1 good player that doesn't take a few bad shots a game? In fact, besides Landry Fields who just differs from pretty much every player in the league, name a player who doesn't take at least 1 bad shot a game? If he's shooting 13 times a game and scoring at a 48% clip, does his 3 bad shots a game really effect us?

Then you go on to praise Gallinari for being a smarter player. On what end is Gallinari actually a smarter player? Is it with his offense where the 6'10 player is shooting 40% from the field and despite being an extremely intelligent player, his field goal percentage has decreased considerably every year he has been in the league? Does his offense show high IQ because 50% of his shots are from deep and he's shooting at a 38% clip from deep? Isn't it weird how people say Wilson can't shoot 3s and need to stop shooting 3s, despite shooting 37% from deep, meanwhile a lot of people on this board encourage Gallinari to shoot 3s because he's 1% higher? Maybe his high IQ shows in his 5.7 freethrow attempts per game because certainly it doesn't show in any other area on the offensive end, though somehow someway people come to this conclusion that he's some great all around player...Defensively, Gallinari isn't on Chandler's level so I'm not even going to get into that.

Why don't we just say this and everyone just be honest, instead of fooling themselves into believing that certain things are true, though its false. People have a favorite between Chandler and Gallinari. That's OK. Its nothing wrong with that and everyone has favorite players on their team. If Gallinari is your favorite or one of your favorite players on the team, you would rather keep him than Chandler. If Chandler is your favorite or one of your favorite players on the team, you would rather keep him than Gallo. That's really what it comes down to because the arguments that a lot of people are making are absolutely foolish. Never have I seen a player get hated on so much, despite scoring 17 points, grabbing 6 rebounds, and blocking 2 shots and that's simply from the 3rd wheel. SMH.

LOL at the FG% arguments. Just realize once and for all that FG% has not much to do with scoring efficiency. Also, Gallo's adjusted +- ratings amongst Knicks players were the best a couple of games ago, in fact, he was the only Knicks player with significant minutes that had a positive rating.

[earthmansurfer]

Clyde, let me ask you this, what center do you see us acquiring (whether in FA or trade) that can really propel this team to challenge the Lakers, the Heat, the Magic, or the Celtics? We have a good team right now, no doubt, but I don't see us as one defensive center away from being an elite team.

Melo is not the answer. Really, no one can legitimately claim whether he can or will lead us to a championship, cause ask Patrick Ewing, or Karl Malone, or Steve Nash, or Chris Webber how really, really difficult it is to actually achieve one. The best thing we can hope for is to become a contender, and upgrading one of Gallo or Chandler into Melo, without losing any other key player, takes us to that next step.

We would still need a defensive center (and a backup PG) after acquiring Melo, but having a core of Felton/Melo/Amare, along with a off-the-ball glue guy like Fields, and one of Gallo or Chandler off the bench, has the makings of a legit title contender. And that's all we can ask for when going for a championship. To be among the elite in the NBA and hope a little luck goes our way.

Honestly, I think Mozgov is our guy, he's just needs time. There really are not many good bigs available probably. Looks like we should have retained Earl Barron. He wasn't a brute, but he was a servicable big off the bench.

I am asking people to not write off Mozgov. He just may not be the solution in the C this year, but I think he will pay us big dividends and spark rallies in the future with his blocks and intimidation. And I think he hands are nerves, not dysfunction.

Watch Moz in the paint. He's got happy feet. He actually moves too much sometimes. He so much wants to attack and strike on both ends, but the NBA game is still coming to him. When it slows down and he understands his positioning a little more, the guy is going to be a massive sparkplug for this team. I feel pretty confident about this. Far more than I do about AR yet, though I have small hopes he can pull it together.

If both Moz and AR can give us 10 meaningful minutes each off the bench by the fourth quarter of the regular season, that will help us a great deal.

I enjoy reading you posts Clyde. I pretty much agree with you here. I have a really good feeling about Mos. If you know talent you can see he is oozing with it. 10 minutes a game for he and AR and we should be set. The season is still early, we are only at the 1/4 point. They will both improve and can make a HUGE difference in the playoffs. Remember how Camby came around for us that one year in the playoffs. Well AR has more talent (less IQ) and Mos is up there with athleticism and size, I really have high hopes for Mos and hope AR can get his act together. That is why I think AR should come in as a defensive sub, he just disrupts things so much, actually so does Mos.

I say we don't make a move for the next month, see what we got.
But, come playoffs it will be hard for us to compete when Amare is in foul trouble or on the bench. I just read an article and when he is on the bench the FG% of Raymond and others goes down as they don't get the same looks. That is where Melo would come in, but NOT at the cost of chopping up our team.

Boy, I'm glad I'm not management as I love this team to much to pull the trigger.

[Johnny Firpo]

Chandler

Chandler is just not a small player, he is very talented obviously but he has a pretty low bbal IQ and still struggles with shot selection, he's good for like 3 boneheaded shots a game.

Gallo is just a more aware and smarter overall player. He knows how to draw contact to get to the line, he knows when to pass and help his teammates rather than force a show, he knows how to take a charge, etc.
Plus I still beleive Gallo has a higher ceiling than Chandler and his best basketball is still ahead of him

I think that's spot on, agree with every word.

[Johnny Firpo]

I don't see why either has to go - that is, unless Donnie and Mike think we can make a real run at the eastern conference finals and they agree that we need Melo to do it. Even then, it seems to me that we have Denver by the conjones. Either they take our offer (Bill Walker and AR, etc.) or we'll wait and get him for nothing after the season and they get nothing.

Yep, i think that's the right move. Denver really has no laverage here. There is always a chance that he will sigh with them again, but at this point, it looks like that's a very little chance. Also, i don't think this team (as currently constructed) can win a championship without a good defensive center, even with Melo. I don't know if you guys agree with this.

[Flaming Mo]

We don't need Melo. We already have what he provides and he provides nothing that we need to round out this team and go for a ring. He is not the answer, but a trivia question.

Face it, this starting five is averaging around 90 points a game together with excellent point distribution.

Any other team in the league has all five starters with these kinds of averages?

The point all along is chemistry and balance. We're developing that.

And you keep your strengths and add on to them while shoring up your weaknesses.

What are our weaknesses now? Everyone knows this answer: Defensive center presence and back-up PG?

What are our strengths? Scoring, unselfishness, timely balling, increasing depth.

How does Melo help us on those counts?

NONE. PAY ATTENTION MELO WORSHIPPERS.

We don't need his scoring. If anything, we have at minimum three players already whose scoring punch can improve even more in Fields, Chandler and Gallo. Add in increased contributions from the bench from TD and improved versions of Mozgov and yes, even AR, and you have all the points you need.

Does Melo improve our defense? NO! Wait, did you hear that? NO! NO! NO!

Does Melo improve our ball distribution? NO!

Do we lack clutch players? NO! For crissakes people, if you think the only way for a team to be clutch is to add a ball hogging scorer, then you haven't been watching our guys play. You've got blinders on. We are developing our own squad of clutch players. You don't go on a run like this without clutch plays from more than your 1-2 punch.

You get timely contributions across the board. To say Will, Gallo and Fields can't win 4th quarters in the playoffs for us is more a sign of lust for Melo than actual fact. That we have a 4th quarter monster now in Amar'e gives us our go-to guy. And to not mention Felton would be a total lack of respect. The guy is clutch.

WE HAVE CLUTCH PLAYERS ALREADY. This mythology that we can only contend by adding Melo because he is more clutch is so bogus. The guy's efficiency is very suspect and we don't need a ball hog moping around because he only got 15 shots to Amar'e's 25.

FURTHERMORE, this is MD's team now. He is going to key off Amar'e, not a perimeter/slasher like Melo. Everything runs through our star in paint and our PG. All of the other guys are supposed to integrate themselves into that scheme, not the other way around.

If you are getting 15 or more PPG from your other three starters, you don't need to gut the team to get 25 points from one guy who may ruin the game for the rest of the cast. It is illogical to assume Melo is going to become a player who makes everyone around him better when he has only marginally shown such a quality.

You win by playing as a team. Tell me about San Antonio's 3 superstars and I've got a bridge to sell you. They won rings because they had their 1 or 1-2 and a great cast of stars or near-stars in players like Ginobli and Parker. We have many quality players already.

And many of you saw or heard a lot about our 90s squads. FACT: 1 Superstar, rest were very good or occasional All-Stars. Houston was very good at what he did when he was strong, but he was not All-Star outside of his stroke. Even Gallo is becoming a more complete player than Houston. The only piece we lack that our 90s team had is a Oakley or Mason, a tough big man up front. But the game has changed so we can now still contend with a quality defensive big at C.

So for all of you fantasy fans, get your heads out of your Lord of the Rings world and look at reality. You have a good team here with many pieces. You win with putting the pieces together, not by concentrating only on a couple of players.

Some of you guys repeat that this is a star's league. Uh yeah? OK. And we have a super one and if you don't think Felton isn't an All-Star now then you just ain't looking. Some of you will still lose sleep at night because Felton is still not Paul or Deron. Knock off the baby talk! Some of you guys are so clouded by images of men flying through the air that you think the only definition of a star is the one on the highlight reel.

And what is even more insane is how cookie cutter and rigid some of your minds are. The sport has its definitions and requirements to field a team and be competitive, but if you think there is one model to follow to build a contender, well you're just wrong.

You win championships with mind and talent and unity. If you have a team with above average talent overall, but superior mindfulness and cohesive team spirit and an indominatable will to win they will beat the "superstar" team without depth or unity or vision. It happened to our star studded Olympic team just like that. International teams with far less talent that knew how to play together handed our guys their head on a platter and the U.S. hoops program went home with its tail between its legs.

16-9 already and guys can't see how to build off what we have and instead want to still play in the sandbox constructing trade scenarios. Its nuts I tell ya. This is a really well put together team already. With a few tweaks to our defensive size and PG depth we are ready to go for the ring. Melo won't make us a more complete or balance team. It will just redirect the flow of traffic more towards him, not towards each other.

Leave the trades to master Walsh and focus on what you've got. It is the key to happiness in life, start practicing in your life as a fan. In life you set goals too and take steps towards achieving them. But you don't get to do that as a fan. YOU ARE POWERLESS. The only control you have is your attitude towards your team. And I consider this obsession with Melo to be largely negative and completely lacking in the ability to stay in the present.

This was a brand new team with three key players carried over. Some of us argued very strongly to drop the Melo garbage and see what your team becomes first. And still some of you are living in a fantasy realm. That they have gelled so quickly is unbelievably satisfying. Stop and smell the roses.

This is an excellent post, well thought out and brings up a lot of valid points. I've said it last week too that I think we will have to ask ourselves at the end of the season if we need Melo at all. We are one of the youngest teams in the league and we will get better from within. Only Amare and Felton are entering their prime right now, basically all other key contributors are 23 or younger. Think about that.

Now I dont think we can really say what we have to do now but people already saying Melo in 2011 is a must are just jumping the gun. We dont really know what we have with this team yet and it has to be evaluated at the end of the season. If we round out the roster with a stud defensive center, better bench players and more depth, then I could easily see us being strong enough for a serious push in the East next season. Now I'm not saying it is the case but we will have to be patient and be sure what we really have with the current squad. So far it looks like a damn good team to me that will only get better with time...

[Knicks218]

I think to many knicks fans are getting to excited about our team if you dont think melo would take us to another level or help the knicks. While our run is nice and we're playing great we are not title contenders, you win in this league with great talent and great coaching.

Melo would take off alot of pressure of amare teams are either going to have to double amare or melo, that leave Lot of people open. People say melos a ball stopper you have to remeber dantoni has a system in place and when you play it right like we been doing the ball is going to move.

[Nupe_1911]

The Knicks need Melo. The Knick's presently are not contenders and only have one player, Amare, that can regularly create his shot. When Amare is off or fouls out or gets benched. The Knicks lack a go to scorer. The Knicks need Melo and it is foolish to say otherwise. Melo, would elevate this team to a second tier NBA team at the very least because the Knick's would have a second player that can fill it up.

I really hate the gibberish that is spamed on this board. LoL @ not needing Melo because we will most likely make the playoffs and lose in the first round

[Justdatdude]

These are the type of posts that I don't understand. You say Chandler has a low bball IQ, still struggles with shot selection, and he's good for like 3 boneheaded shots a game. Tell me this. If the guy is shooting 48% from the floor, 37% from deep, and 83% from the line, how does his low bball IQ effect us in a negative way? Name 1 good player that doesn't take a few bad shots a game? In fact, besides Landry Fields who just differs from pretty much every player in the league, name a player who doesn't take at least 1 bad shot a game? If he's shooting 13 times a game and scoring at a 48% clip, does his 3 bad shots a game really effect us?

Then you go on to praise Gallinari for being a smarter player. On what end is Gallinari actually a smarter player? Is it with his offense where the 6'10 player is shooting 40% from the field and despite being an extremely intelligent player, his field goal percentage has decreased considerably every year he has been in the league? Does his offense show high IQ because 50% of his shots are from deep and he's shooting at a 38% clip from deep? Isn't it weird how people say Wilson can't shoot 3s and need to stop shooting 3s, despite shooting 37% from deep, meanwhile a lot of people on this board encourage Gallinari to shoot 3s because he's 1% higher? Maybe his high IQ shows in his 5.7 freethrow attempts per game because certainly it doesn't show in any other area on the offensive end, though somehow someway people come to this conclusion that he's some great all around player...Defensively, Gallinari isn't on Chandler's level so I'm not even going to get into that.

Why don't we just say this and everyone just be honest, instead of fooling themselves into believing that certain things are true, though its false. People have a favorite between Chandler and Gallinari. That's OK. Its nothing wrong with that and everyone has favorite players on their team. If Gallinari is your favorite or one of your favorite players on the team, you would rather keep him than Chandler. If Chandler is your favorite or one of your favorite players on the team, you would rather keep him than Gallo. That's really what it comes down to because the arguments that a lot of people are making are absolutely foolish. Never have I seen a player get hated on so much, despite scoring 17 points, grabbing 6 rebounds, and blocking 2 shots and that's simply from the 3rd wheel. SMH.

LOL at the FG% arguments. Just realize once and for all that FG% has not much to do with scoring efficiency. Also, Gallo's adjusted +- ratings amongst Knicks players were the best a couple of games ago, in fact, he was the only Knicks player with significant minutes that had a positive rating.

And let me guess, you're going by TS%? That's an overrated stat. Field goal % shows directly the amount of shots you hit from the floor. No fancy stuff needed. It simply shows if you're making your shots. Point. Blank. Period. Gallinari is shooting 40%, Chandler is shooting 48%. Gallinari is shooting 38% from deep, Chandler is shooting 37%. I'm not going to go along with this crap that Gallinari is a better scorer or a more efficient scorer just for the simple fact that he makes freethrows at a higher rate than Chandler. That's garbage. Michael Beasley is shooting 47% from the floor and 40% from deep, but his ts% is low because he doesn't make freethrows at a high rate. There's a topic on the general board about Billups being overrated and extremely bad this year, but because he hit freethrows at a high rate his ts% is at 57%. That stat is garbage.

As for this +/- crap, I can care less about it. Amare Stoudemire has been the MVP on this team. Felton and Chandler have been the 2nd and 3rd best players on this team. Nothing you say will change that. Use whatever fancy stat you want, Gallinari isn't better than Chandler nor is he more effective with the ball.

[moocow007]

May i just say knicks fans, i love reading this board, even more than the laker board on realgm(im on numerous other laker forums so i guess that makes up for it). Anyway some of these jokes just make me laugh like 2 1/2 men and stuff. Ive watched a couple knicks games this season and boy you guys got a team. I hope you guys are excited to become contenders because within the next year or 2 your team will be!

Yeah yeah i know the drill now: STFU and GTFO :).

But seriously yeah...here's to hoping Knicks and Lakers meet in some seriously important games in the near future.

[j4remi]

I think something that scares me is how many times have we seen players with suspect casts get through the regular season in dominant fashion only to see their support players disappear or fall off. Lebron's Cavs did it every year and guys like KG and T-Mac suffered that fate in Minne and ORL. I hate to doubt our guys, but the playoffs are an absolutely different monster than the regular season. I don't know that we can count on players who are already inconsistent when the post season comes around with it's intensity and defensive nature. Call me a cynic...I just would like the insurance of having both Melo and Stat with Felton at the reins. I by no means want us to blow it up just for Melo, but I'd be willing to explore giving up a little extra to grab him.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Does anyone think we are not a better team with Melo?

Of course we shouldn't and probably won't have to overpay for him. We won't even have to pay what he's worth. We're going to get him for cheap. It would be crazy to pass him up for cheap.

[Johnny Firpo]

And let me guess, you're going by TS%? That's an overrated stat.

According to who? Your ignorance is funny. How could TS% be overrated when it's one of the single best measure of scoring efficiency, i understand that it not fits your opinion but you should really just accept the undeniable FACT that Gallinari is in fact a more efficient scorer.

Field goal % shows directly the amount of shots you hit from the floor.

Yeah, no. It doesn't show that, first of all. It shows how many of your shot attempts are go in. Doesn't show how many you score, doesn't show how many shot attempts you have, doesn't show how much of it is a three point shot, and most importantly, doesn't show that you're capable of going to the free throw line, or not. That's why it is useless as a single stat to measure scoring efficiency. Really, i could argue more about that, but if you can't understand it, that can only happen because of two reasons. You're ignorant, and it doesn't fit your opinion, or your simply arent' capable of understand it. Obviously, i think it's the former.

Michael Beasley is shooting 47% from the floor and 40% from deep, but his ts% is low because he doesn't make freethrows at a high rate.

Exactly, and that is why he's NOT an efficient scorer. He could make them, he's a good shooter, but he lacks the ability to DRAW fouls on a high rate. And that is EVERY single great scorer's must have. The ability to draw fouls. Before you claim that i said Gallo is a great scorer, no, i didn't.

There's a topic on the general board about Billups being overrated and extremely bad this year, but because he hit freethrows at a high rate his ts% is at 57%. That stat is garbage. As for this +/- crap, I can care less about it. Amare Stoudemire has been the MVP on this team. Felton and Chandler have been the 2nd and 3rd best players on this team. Nothing you say will change that. Use whatever fancy stat you want, Gallinari isn't better than Chandler nor is he more effective with the ball.

No, that stat is not garbage at all, again, if you think that is, you're absolutely wrong. But i don't think you really think that. Your argument is just weak. I also want to add, i didn't say Amare is not the MVP, nor that Gallinari is a better player right now, than Chandler. He's just a more efficient scorer, and that's an undeniable fact.

[TrueWarrior]

Im going to TRY not to compare Gallo and Chandler much here, even if its inevitable.

Ill start by saying I think Chandler has clearly outplayed Gallo as a whole this season so far, BUT we have roughly 60 games left in the year. A lot can change. It took Chandler a while to get where hes at right now. 3.5 healthy seasons to be exact. It wasnt until around this time last season where he made a jump in efficiency by cutting out his threes. Who's to say Gallo wont be a much better player by the end of the season? Scoff all you want but this is Gallos 2nd true healthy season in the league. Hes going to get it together eventually, if not very soon.

For all the flack about inconsistency Gallo gets, hes been consistently putting up 15+ pts since November, only going below 13 points FOUR times since then. Some say TS% is garbage, but it clearly shows that a player can still score on good efficiency even if they arent shooting great from the field, which Gallo isnt. Points are points are they not? A 90% foul shooter getting to the line is the same as an open layup in my mind, while getting the opposition one step closer to the penalty. Would it make people feel better if Gallo made an extra layup a game instead of going to the line? His FG% would be higher but his FTA would be lower. TS% is a great measurement in accounting for things like this.

Now Chandler on the other hand has improved his efficiency ten fold of late. That was my beef with him. He can take all the threes he wants if hes going to hit them at this clip. We all had legit concerns when he was chucking them 6 times a game at 29%, but his percentages have sky rocketed just over the last few weeks. I dont think anybody has a problem with Chandler shooting if he can hit them at the rate he is now.

Meanwhile Gallo is still 3rd in the entire NBA in offensive rating though. His adjusted +/- is also in the top 25. The guy impacts the game more than some give him credit for. His passing is underrated which definitely leads to his impact, along with being a big long range threat to space the floor. Im sure by the end of the season his percentages will rise, as they've slowly crept up since his horrific start. Gallos defense is also not as bad as some always insinuate it is. Hes not a good help defender but his on ball defense has been solid since last season. Of course guys like Melo and Lebron are going to give him fits, but they give everybody fits. They've lit Chandler up for 50+ in the past so lets not act like Chandler is some lockdown defender here, although his defense is still better than Gallo's overall. I just think its wrong for people to say Gallo is a bad defender when hes not. Hes average at least.

If Gallo doesnt improve by the end of the season I would be very surprised.

As far as the question goes, I would prob trade Chandler because of his contract situation. Gallo gives us another year on a rookie deal to weigh our options. I think Gallo would also play better with a Melo/Amare duo. His passing and ability to hit the three would be huge along with them. Chandler has a very similar game to Amare/Melo, and plays in the same areas so IDK if he would work great with both of them tbh. Gallo can be our Kukoc off the bench at the very least for the next 2 years.

The biggest thing is though I just dont want to tie up so much money in Chandler right now when he would be playing the same positions as Amare/Melo. As good as Chandler has been I just dont think thats smart in the long run. We need an actual center as I dont like Amare playing there. It wouldnt surprise me though if Dantoni wants to go Amare at C, Chandler at PF, and Melo at SF but again is that going to get it done down the line? Im not sure. Id rather give that money to a real center but thats just me.

[Johnny_Depth]

These are the type of posts that I don't understand. You say Chandler has a low bball IQ, still struggles with shot selection, and he's good for like 3 boneheaded shots a game. Tell me this. If the guy is shooting 48% from the floor, 37% from deep, and 83% from the line, how does his low bball IQ effect us in a negative way? Name 1 good player that doesn't take a few bad shots a game? In fact, besides Landry Fields who just differs from pretty much every player in the league, name a player who doesn't take at least 1 bad shot a game? If he's shooting 13 times a game and scoring at a 48% clip, does his 3 bad shots a game really effect us?

Then you go on to praise Gallinari for being a smarter player. On what end is Gallinari actually a smarter player? Is it with his offense where the 6'10 player is shooting 40% from the field and despite being an extremely intelligent player, his field goal percentage has decreased considerably every year he has been in the league? Does his offense show high IQ because 50% of his shots are from deep and he's shooting at a 38% clip from deep? Isn't it weird how people say Wilson can't shoot 3s and need to stop shooting 3s, despite shooting 37% from deep, meanwhile a lot of people on this board encourage Gallinari to shoot 3s because he's 1% higher? Maybe his high IQ shows in his 5.7 freethrow attempts per game because certainly it doesn't show in any other area on the offensive end, though somehow someway people come to this conclusion that he's some great all around player...Defensively, Gallinari isn't on Chandler's level so I'm not even going to get into that.

Why don't we just say this and everyone just be honest, instead of fooling themselves into believing that certain things are true, though its false. People have a favorite between Chandler and Gallinari. That's OK. Its nothing wrong with that and everyone has favorite players on their team. If Gallinari is your favorite or one of your favorite players on the team, you would rather keep him than Chandler. If Chandler is your favorite or one of your favorite players on the team, you would rather keep him than Gallo. That's really what it comes down to because the arguments that a lot of people are making are absolutely foolish. Never have I seen a player get hated on so much, despite scoring 17 points, grabbing 6 rebounds, and blocking 2 shots and that's simply from the 3rd wheel. SMH.

LOL at the FG% arguments. Just realize once and for all that FG% has not much to do with scoring efficiency. Also, Gallo's adjusted +- ratings amongst Knicks players were the best a couple of games ago, in fact, he was the only Knicks player with significant minutes that had a positive rating.

And let me guess, you're going by TS%? That's an overrated stat. Field goal % shows directly the amount of shots you hit from the floor. No fancy stuff needed. It simply shows if you're making your shots. Point. Blank. Period. Gallinari is shooting 40%, Chandler is shooting 48%. Gallinari is shooting 38% from deep, Chandler is shooting 37%. I'm not going to go along with this crap that Gallinari is a better scorer or a more efficient scorer just for the simple fact that he makes freethrows at a higher rate than Chandler. That's garbage. Michael Beasley is shooting 47% from the floor and 40% from deep, but his ts% is low because he doesn't make freethrows at a high rate. There's a topic on the general board about Billups being overrated and extremely bad this year, but because he hit freethrows at a high rate his ts% is at 57%. That stat is garbage.

As for this +/- crap, I can care less about it. Amare Stoudemire has been the MVP on this team. Felton and Chandler have been the 2nd and 3rd best players on this team. Nothing you say will change that. Use whatever fancy stat you want, Gallinari isn't better than Chandler nor is he more effective with the ball.

b-b-b-b-b-u-t it's not just that Gallo's only a good FT shooter, it's the INTELLIGENCE with which he makes his FT's that make him better than Chandler!! LMAO it's hilarious. Don't even sweat it dude. People who know basketball, know Chandler's a better player. This year it's not even close.

[nyknicks09]

I rather Walsh just concentrate on getting Chandler to a longterm deal and spend the rest of the money wisely on veteran players.

This team is finally playing together and to brake the team now will probably ruin our chemistry.


Ride with the wave.