[Camelo Thread]**UPDATE MELO PUSHING FOR KNICKS**- Part 4

[defjux21]

Can someone provide a Kosmovitelli-esque analysis and summary of possible salary cap scenarios if we obtain / ignore Melo?

Thanks in advance.

[Justdatdude]

Im going to TRY not to compare Gallo and Chandler much here. Ill start by saying I think Chandler has clearly outplayed Gallo as a whole this season so far, BUT we have roughly 60 games left in the year. A lot can change. It took Chandler a while to get where hes at right now. 3.5 healthy seasons to be exact. It wasnt until around this time last season where he made a jump in efficiency by cutting out his threes. Who's to say Gallo wont be a much better player by the end of the season? Scoff all you want but this is Gallos 2nd true healthy season in the league. Hes going to get it together eventually, if not very soon.

For all the flack about inconsistency Gallo gets, hes been consistently putting up 15+ pts since November, only going below 13 points FOUR times since then. Some say TS% is garbage, but it clearly shows that a player can still score on good efficiency even if they arent shooting great from the field, which Gallo isnt. Points are points are they not? A 90% foul shooter getting to the line is the same as an open layup in my mind, while getting the opposition one step closer to the penalty. Would it make people feel better if Gallo made an extra layup a game instead of going to the line? His FG% would be higher but his FTA would be lower. TS% is a great measurement in accounting for things like this.

What amuses me is how most of the games that we watch, we'll see comments like "Gallo's struggling" "Gallo's in a slump" "what's wrong with Gallo's shooting", then when you forget about what he watch, forget about the basic stats, and search for his ts%, it then becomes "Gallinari is extremely efficient from the field and playing well". Why is it every game we can say he's struggling, but then when you look at it as a whole he's all of a sudden playing his ass off? You don't find that odd? TS% benefit SHOOTERS. Its great that he can make the 3 ball at 38% and he can hit freethrows at 90%, but this argument is just foolish.

Now Chandler on the other hand has improved his efficiency ten fold of late. That was my beef with him. He can take all the threes he wants if hes going to hit them at this clip. We all had legit concerns when he was chucking them 6 times a game at 29%, but his percentages have sky rocketed just over the last few weeks. I dont think anybody has a problem with Chandler shooting if he can hit them at the rate he is now.

Not you in particular and I agree with what you're saying right here. My question is, why must it be pointed out EVERY SINGLE GAME that Chandler took to many 3s or whatever the crap is, when him and Gallinari is taking about the same amount of 3 pointers and shooting around the same percentage? Like I said, this isn't really directed at you, I just want your opinion on that.

Meanwhile Gallo is still 3rd in the entire NBA in offensive rating though. His adjusted +/- is also in the top 25. The guy impacts the game more than some give him credit for. His passing is underrated which definitely leads to his impact, along with being a big long range threat to space the floor. Im sure by the end of the season his percentages will rise, as they've slowly crept up since his horrific start. Gallos defense is also not as bad as some always insinuate it is. Hes not a good help defender but his on ball defense has been solid since last season. Of course guys like Melo and Lebron are going to give him fits, but they give everybody fits. They've lit Chandler up for 50+ in the past so lets not act like Chandler is some lockdown defender here, although his defense is still better than Gallo's overall. I just think its wrong for people to say Gallo is a bad defender when hes not. Hes average at least.

Carmelo lit Gallinari up for 50, Lebron lit Chandler up for 50, and like you said, those guys light everyone up. Its nothing they can really do about that. I agree with that, but Gallinari isn't a good defender. He tries, but more times than not, players have their way with him. He'll draw a charge here or there, but that's really about it.

As far as the question goes, I would prob trade Chandler because of his contract situation. Gallo gives us another year on a rookie deal to weigh our options. I think Gallo would also play better with a Melo/Amare duo. His passing and ability to hit the three would be huge along with them. Chandler has a very similar game to Amare/Melo, and plays in the same areas so IDK if he would work great with both of them tbh. Gallo can be our Kukoc off the bench at the very least for the next 2 years.

Chandler can stand at the 3 point line and shoot 5 3s a game as well, just like he's doing now. Is that a knock on Chandler that his game like Melo's, can extend from anywhere on the court? Shouldn't that be a positive that Chandler can mix up his game and hit from deep, as well as the perimeter. That would make the Knicks team with Melo and Chandler even more difficult to guard, don't you think? As far as Gallo being Kukoc, I just don't see the ballhandling or mobility to be like Hedo, Tony or any of these other point forwards.

The biggest thing is though I just dont want to tie up so much money in Chandler right now when he would be playing the same positions as Amare/Melo. As good as Chandler has been I just dont think thats smart in the long run. We need an actual center as I dont like Amare playing there. It wouldnt surprise me though if Dantoni wants to go Amare at C, Chandler at PF, and Melo at SF but again is that going to get it done down the line? Im not sure. Id rather give that money to a real center but thats just me.

This is good right here, some people will differ, but most will understand your line of thinking. I like Chandler, but some on here are saying he should grab 9-10 million on the market. As much as I like the guy, I'm not giving Chandler no more than 7 million a year. He's a solid player to have. He does a lot of things on the floor, but he's not a great offensive player, he's not a great defensive player, and he's not a great rebounder. He's good at all of those things, but not great. And I don't think he'll be the difference between us winning or losing a championship series, especially if Fields come along as I expect him to, now that he gave me high expectations for his game.

[MSGBallerz]

People act like Chandler is not good with the ball but he gets all his points with no plays being drawn for him. He just knows how to assert himself.

[janquinn]

You can't win with the Gallo lover's. If you point out that Chandler has a higher fg% 48 to 40 and a better rebounder 6 to 4.6 a better shotblocker 1.7 to 0.4. both players 3pt fg% is 37. The lover's pull out the great TS% bull. A stat made up by john Hollinger in 2003. If you go by this lame ass tool. I guess you will take Gallo over Kobe, L.James, Wade, C.Anthony and Micheal Jordan. Where is this great passing ability, he has never average more than 1.7 assist in a season, Chandler last season 2.1 assist.

[!nstinct]

I disagree. We need Melo because he can really spread the floor. His plays will benefit all others. Gallo or Chandler cant penetrate like Melo do. Besides, Melo require double at all time. He is not selfish and he does pass the ball.

I think you are looking at Melo as a different guy. You don't hear others complaining about him. So, the chemistry would only take days to be there. Even a ball-hog like AI loved playing with Melo. He will not come to take over, he will come to help. He understand it and he is a team guy.

[DonJuanCapistro]

I could see us going 11-11 over that stretch. which i would love.

[Justdatdude]

You can't win with the Gallo lover's. If you point out that Chandler has a higher fg% 48 to 40 and a better rebounder 6 to 4.6 a better shotblocker 1.7 to 0.4. both players 3pt fg% is 37. The lover's pull out the great TS% bull. A stat made up by john Hollinger in 2003. If you go by this lame ass tool. I guess you will take Gallo over Kobe, L.James, Wade, C.Anthony and Micheal Jordan. Where is this great passing ability, he has never average more than 1.7 assist in a season, Chandler last season 2.1 assist.

No one is arguing with you that those players aren't better than Gallinari. All we're saying is you would be better off with the ball being in Gallinari's hands, as he's a more efficient scorer than them. All of those players are good offensive players and better defenders than Gallo. That is the reason they are better than Gallinari. But if you had all of those players and Gallinari on your team, you would be better off going to Gallo because he's more efficient. That's all. Those guys are better players, Gallinari is a more efficient scorer and more reliable.

[Gallant Talent]

without a doubt, you have to keep Gallinari. Gallinari's game would compliment Amare and Carmelo. Gallinari doesn't need the ball, which is a necessity b/c the ball will always be in the hands of Amare and Carmelo. Gallinari provides floor spacing and the ability knock contribute offensively without having the ball in his hands on a consistent basis.

Chandler on the other hand is a volume shooter, he is not a spot up guy. He is a guy that likes to dribble around and prepare for his shot. He is pretty much the exact player that Carmelo is, their guys would clash to an extreme level. If the knicks trade Gallo for Carmelo they have no shot in the playoffs this year, if they trade Wilson for Carmelo they could win the championship this year.

[MSGBallerz]

And furthermore if Gallo was ever in a position to avg more than 1.7 assists and more points than he does now it would mean his teammates are terrible and we'd probably win 15 games. Chandler had to go through the same ball hog teammates as well as good teammates like this season that Gallo went through and he was more productive than Gallinari in every scenario.

[CDAZ]

We're tied for 4th in the Eastern Conference, just ONE GAME out of the 2 seed. This next stretch includes:

-All five of the other EC leaders (Heat, Celtics, Magic, Hawks, and Pacers).
-WC powerhouses (Lakers, Thunder, Jazz, and the Spurs twice)
-Three sets of back-to-backs
-A 7 out of 9 game Western Conf Road Trip
-6 games on national TV
-17 out of 22 games against winning teams

To say this stretch will make or break our season is not an exaggeration. I for one and totally fcking psyched to see how we fare against top competition.

-The Pacers? Really ?....REALLY?

-Spurs play at our pace now. We are younger and Amare can destroy Duncan now.

- We are 6-4 in back -to back games.

-Western Conf Road Trips are good for us.

-6 games on National TV. We can whip our hair back n fourth.

-We beat Denver, New Orleans. We are already doing a good job on winning teams.

Why u worried for? We are 16-9. Let's take it one game at a time.

What is so crazy about the pacers? They are 2nd in their division 3 games behind chicago. They are one spot behind us in the east at 7th. Had a hot start and are .500.

Destroy duncan? Road trips are good? Whip our hair?

I understand you want to have some fun, but these constant immature, antagonistic, baiting posts are getting old.

You need to grow up. Seriously. Take this as a warning. You keep trolling other forums. And what you do here is not exactly quality either. Chill out punk.

I see someone is making a statement early

[Falstaffxx]

Chandler has been the better player so far this year, but I'd rather keep Gallo due to Chandler's contract situation and Gallo's upside (he's younger, bigger, has a greater propensity to draw fouls, doesn't need the ball as much as Chandler, and I think will ultimately be a 40% 3-point shooter). I'd keep the younger, cheaper guy.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Some of the arguments against Chandler I don't really get.

Money? We are going to have to pay Gallo in a year or soon anyway. Plus if we get Melo our cap space is gone for years.

Position wise? Don't we have the same problem with Gallo off the bench/starting as we would with Chandler? Except I would say Chandler would be better off the bench or even starting since he's more versatile and can play more positions. So Chandler helps us more position wise I would say. He can play bigger.

Basketball IQ? Ok, Gallo is smart in drawing fouls. Maybe he has a higher IQ overall. Maybe. But they are really not THAT far apart. When you watch them play a typical game you really can't see a big difference. I think its an overrated difference between the 2. Chandler has really made great strides in the way he plays. He has become a much smarter player on the court.

My biggest concern with Gallo is he just seems to struggle when he's not a focal point. He'll disappear for games. Chandler still can thrive on broken plays or running the floor. He's not a focal point. It doesn't look like he has any plays called for him yet he's still playing great. Maybe its just a matter of Gallo getting more experience since Gallo is getting much better at that.

You would only keep Gallo over Chandler based on potential though. Because right now Chandler is clearly better. But the thing is Chandler has not stopped getting better either. His jumper has improved. He's become a shot blocker all of a sudden. So what is his ceiling too? Even shooting 3's Chandler is right up there with Gallo this year.

[MSGBallerz]

People need to stop bringing up "needing the ball" BS. Chandler has always played without the ball. He just knows how to move without the ball rather than hide in some corner.

[makeitstop]

I've been saying this for a while - I'll give the Knicks a puncher's chance against anybody. Anybody.

That said, I'm hoping for .500 over this stretch. It would put us in a nice spot for the rest of the season.

[Paladin55]

Why not let this team grow and evolve. There is a long time before the trade deadline- we have plenty of time to see how this team takes hits and responds.

Find another big man to help in the middle, try to develop Mosguv and AR the best you can, and see how our players react to the increasing pressure they will come under as the season goes on, they face tougher competition, and they see they have a chance to achieve something.

[aveboogie7]

People need to stop bringing up "needing the ball" BS. Gallinari has always played without the ball. He just knows how to move without the ball rather than hide in some corner.

fixed

[Flaming Mo]

Does anyone think we are not a better team with Melo?

Of course we shouldn't and probably won't have to overpay for him. We won't even have to pay what he's worth. We're going to get him for cheap. It would be crazy to pass him up for cheap.

The question isnt if we are better with Melo or without him. The question anyone should ask themselves is are we better off signing quality players at center, backup point guard and backup shooting guard, further improving our defense and depth. We would also keep Chandler and Turiaf in that scenario.

Getting him for cheap is relative...

[TrueWarrior]

What amuses me is how most of the games that we watch, we'll see comments like "Gallo's struggling" "Gallo's in a slump" "what's wrong with Gallo's shooting", then when you forget about what he watch, forget about the basic stats, and search for his ts%, it then becomes "Gallinari is extremely efficient from the field and playing well". Why is it every game we can say he's struggling, but then when you look at it as a whole he's all of a sudden playing his ass off? You don't find that odd? TS% benefit SHOOTERS. Its great that he can make the 3 ball at 38% and he can hit freethrows at 90%, but this argument is just foolish.

I think most people, at least myself, say Gallo isnt shooting well from the field. We arent saying hes not efficient scoring the ball. If he goes 9-9 form the line but shoots 3-9 from the field, thats actually a pretty efficient scoring night. Not from the field obviously but as a whole yes.

Of course TS% benefits shooters, but the three ball and FTs are very efficient ways of scoring. The old sayin goes 33% from 3 = 50% from 2. Gallo might not be a guy we give the ball to for the last second shot with his low FG% but over the course of the game he will score efficiently.

Not you in particular and I agree with what you're saying right here. My question is, why must it be pointed out EVERY SINGLE GAME that Chandler took to many 3s or whatever the crap is, when him and Gallinari is taking about the same amount of 3 pointers and shooting around the same percentage? Like I said, this isn't really directed at you, I just want your opinion on that.

Well I cant speak for others, but I know Ive been saying for a few games now that I dont mind Chandlers shooting if he actually makes the shots. Chandler just recently bumped his percentage up though so perhaps people are still skeptical he will keep it up.

Carmelo lit Gallinari up for 50, Lebron lit Chandler up for 50, and like you said, those guys light everyone up. Its nothing they can really do about that. I agree with that, but Gallinari isn't a good defender. He tries, but more times than not, players have their way with him. He'll draw a charge here or there, but that's really about it.

Agree for the most part. Overall Gallo isnt a good defender, I just think Gallo isnt as bad as you make it. He needs to get stronger more than anything, because his length bothers some players. If he can do that he should be able to handle some of the bigger guys a little better.

Chandler can stand at the 3 point line and shoot 5 3s a game as well, just like he's doing now. Is that a knock on Chandler that his game like Melo's, can extend from anywhere on the court? Shouldn't that be a positive that Chandler can mix up his game and hit from deep, as well as the perimeter. That would make the Knicks team with Melo and Chandler even more difficult to guard, don't you think? As far as Gallo being Kukoc, I just don't see the ballhandling or mobility to be like Hedo, Tony or any of these other point forwards.

Fair enough. I knew somebody would bring this up. If Chandler can keep hitting threes at this clip then it could def work, but since Amare and Melo both do their damage from mid range and in the paint, Chandler would have less room to work. Not to mention he wouldnt get as many opportunities to do what he does now and would be relegated to a 4th option after Amare, Melo, Felton. But yes if he keeps up his shooting he can def work as a spacer who can attack when necessary like Gallo. As far as Gallo goes, again I feel you're underrating him. Thats fine though. He may not play identical to Kukoc or Orlando Hedo, but I think he can be just as effective in his own way. He could flourish as a 6th man for the time being.

This is good right here, some people will differ, but most will understand your line of thinking. I like Chandler, but some on here are saying he should grab 9-10 million on the market. As much as I like the guy, I'm not giving Chandler no more than 7 million a year. He's a solid player to have. He does a lot of things on the floor, but he's not a great offensive player, he's not a great defensive player, and he's not a great rebounder. He's good at all of those things, but not great. And I don't think he'll be the difference between us winning or losing a championship series, especially if Fields come along as I expect him to, now that he gave me high expectations for his game.

Yup. Im not ready to pay Chandler OR Gallo much money right now, when Amare and Melo play their positions. it just so happens Chandler is expiring and Gallo has another year. I guess one could say we can always sign Chandler and trade him down the line, but who knows whats going to happen in the future with his value or if he stays healthy. Right now his value is at an all time high. You mention Fields and thats another great point because Fields is more of a SF too, so why the need for all these SFs? I just dont think its smart.

[MaseInYourFace]

Im going to TRY not to compare Gallo and Chandler much here, even if its inevitable.

Ill start by saying I think Chandler has clearly outplayed Gallo as a whole this season so far, BUT we have roughly 60 games left in the year. A lot can change. It took Chandler a while to get where hes at right now. 3.5 healthy seasons to be exact. It wasnt until around this time last season where he made a jump in efficiency by cutting out his threes. Who's to say Gallo wont be a much better player by the end of the season? Scoff all you want but this is Gallos 2nd true healthy season in the league. Hes going to get it together eventually, if not very soon.

For all the flack about inconsistency Gallo gets, hes been consistently putting up 15+ pts since November, only going below 13 points FOUR times since then. Some say TS% is garbage, but it clearly shows that a player can still score on good efficiency even if they arent shooting great from the field, which Gallo isnt. Points are points are they not? A 90% foul shooter getting to the line is the same as an open layup in my mind, while getting the opposition one step closer to the penalty. Would it make people feel better if Gallo made an extra layup a game instead of going to the line? His FG% would be higher but his FTA would be lower. TS% is a great measurement in accounting for things like this.

Now Chandler on the other hand has improved his efficiency ten fold of late. That was my beef with him. He can take all the threes he wants if hes going to hit them at this clip. We all had legit concerns when he was chucking them 6 times a game at 29%, but his percentages have sky rocketed just over the last few weeks. I dont think anybody has a problem with Chandler shooting if he can hit them at the rate he is now.

Meanwhile Gallo is still 3rd in the entire NBA in offensive rating though. His adjusted +/- is also in the top 25. The guy impacts the game more than some give him credit for. His passing is underrated which definitely leads to his impact, along with being a big long range threat to space the floor. Im sure by the end of the season his percentages will rise, as they've slowly crept up since his horrific start. Gallos defense is also not as bad as some always insinuate it is. Hes not a good help defender but his on ball defense has been solid since last season. Of course guys like Melo and Lebron are going to give him fits, but they give everybody fits. They've lit Chandler up for 50+ in the past so lets not act like Chandler is some lockdown defender here, although his defense is still better than Gallo's overall. I just think its wrong for people to say Gallo is a bad defender when hes not. Hes average at least.

If Gallo doesnt improve by the end of the season I would be very surprised.

As far as the question goes, I would prob trade Chandler because of his contract situation. Gallo gives us another year on a rookie deal to weigh our options. I think Gallo would also play better with a Melo/Amare duo. His passing and ability to hit the three would be huge along with them. Chandler has a very similar game to Amare/Melo, and plays in the same areas so IDK if he would work great with both of them tbh. Gallo can be our Kukoc off the bench at the very least for the next 2 years.

The biggest thing is though I just dont want to tie up so much money in Chandler right now when he would be playing the same positions as Amare/Melo. As good as Chandler has been I just dont think thats smart in the long run. We need an actual center as I dont like Amare playing there. It wouldnt surprise me though if Dantoni wants to go Amare at C, Chandler at PF, and Melo at SF but again is that going to get it done down the line? Im not sure. Id rather give that money to a real center but thats just me.

You make a lot of good points. I see a lot of people on other boards saying stuff like Fields and Chandler "do all the little things that help you win" but they make it seem like Gallo doesn't do that when statistically it shows he does quite a bit actually...

[janquinn]

You can't win with the Gallo lover's. If you point out that Chandler has a higher fg% 48 to 40 and a better rebounder 6 to 4.6 a better shotblocker 1.7 to 0.4. both players 3pt fg% is 37. The lover's pull out the great TS% bull. A stat made up by john Hollinger in 2003. If you go by this lame ass tool. I guess you will take Gallo over Kobe, L.James, Wade, C.Anthony and Micheal Jordan. Where is this great passing ability, he has never average more than 1.7 assist in a season, Chandler last season 2.1 assist.

No one is arguing with you that those players aren't better than Gallinari. All we're saying is you would be better off with the ball being in Gallinari's hands, as he's a more efficient scorer than them. All of those players are good offensive players and better defenders than Gallo. That is the reason they are better than Gallinari. But if you had all of those players and Gallinari on your team, you would be better off going to Gallo because he's more efficient. That's all. Those guys are better players, Gallinari is a more efficient scorer and more reliable.

Iam sorry if you shoot 40% from the field you are not a efficient ball player. I dont give a **** about your ft%. TS% is like gumbo just mix in ft%, fg%, and 3pt% we got player's efficiency levels. What other so called great shooter you want the ball in his hand's that have a fg% at 40%.