Stoudemire the Last Rim Bender...

[ATTL]

Hopefully it wont take a decade to find a replacement for the inside presence we're now missing without Amare.

It's a nice video too, takes me back.

[Wannabe MEP]

D'Antoni is a big part of this whole discussion. Originally, it was really the Nash-Amar'e-D'Antoni pick-and-roll. D'Antoni is obsessed with creating space for the pick-and-roll. Part of why:

Nash + Amar'e = very good
Nash + D'Antoni = very good
Amar'e + D'Antoni = very good
Nash + Amar'e + D'Antoni = phenomenal

any one by himself? ok.

[TASTIC]

Something inside me says that Nash needed Amare to finish plays for him. Would Nash have been a 2 time MVP without Amare on his team? I tend to doubt it.

I didn't know there were people who would make this stupid statement on the Suns board.

Come on man, no need for this sorta grief - we're all Suns fans here and he made a mistake

[TheMoochinator]

I am really happy for Amare and I'm pulling for him and the knicks this season.

Amare was always underappreciated around the league Im glad others are taking note of how beastly he is....offensively at least.

I used to get so mad when fools would try to claim Bosh was better than Amare, straight ridiculous.

[pidi]

i don´t understand you. when ama´re was here and he just pulled like 0.,5 rebounds a game everyone in here was mad at him. he is a liability on defense. my ears keep ringing with all the statements..

of course he is a great player but you can´t go from trade him to love him.

[BurningHeart]

i don´t understand you. when ama´re was here and he just pulled like 0.,5 rebounds a game everyone in here was mad at him. he is a liability on defense. my ears keep ringing with all the statements..

of course he is a great player but you can´t go from trade him to love him.

That would be coo and accurate, if I was one of those people who kept banging the drum about his defense and wanting to trade him. Too bad I wasn't.

[pidi]

i was one of them and i still say that he will be messed in a year or two and i understand the sarver move.
it´s not that i like sarver but with this move i developed a little bit of respect for him...

[YFZblu]

I have no problem with the Suns offer to Stoudemire, and I have no problem with him leaving. He's playing pretty well, I've made a point to watch the Knicks this season. But he's also committing many of the same blunders he always has.

[rsavaj]

That's Amare!

[asubennett]

This thread was created on a sample size of Amare in NY that is 100% insignificant.

Is Amare a scoring machine? Yes.
Is Amare missed in Phoenix? Yes.

But as many of us LONG tenured Suns fans can attest he is not without faults. And when those faults start rearing their ugly head you, as in Knicks fans, wont like it. Many of the group that has replied in this thread already has amnesia apparently. I guarantee if you go find some of their old posts you will find Amare hate/frustration from nearly all of them at some point.

1. He will get killed in a playoff series in the post by anyone that has a post game. Garnett, Shaq, Perkins, D Howard, Al Horoford, Andrew Bogut, Carlos Boozer, etc..... In fact, go review his stat sheets. MANY of his 30 / 10 games this season he has also allowed another player to go off for 30 / 10.

2. He is highly emotional. Which means when he is rolling he rolls hard. And the emotion comes across as passion. However, when the times get tough within a game, he often disapears or starts to force the issue. This results in pointless offensive fouls, turnovers and or techincal fouls.

3. He is a turnover machine. He can easily provide 10 turnovers himself any given night.

Amare judged through tinted shades is beautiful. Peel back some layers and its not as nice.

Examples:
Some opposing 4 and 5's stat this season against the Knicks.
41/7
33/15
36/9
26/11 - Ty Thomas (ill call that one out because it is very noteworthy)
44/15
32/31
28/10
20/10
22/10
22/16

In those 10 games the ooposing teams big has average 33 points and 13 boards. That cancels out Amares production more than 1 for 1.

[YFZblu]

2. He is highly emotional. Which means when he is rolling he rolls hard. And the emotion comes across as passion. However, when the times get tough within a game, he often disapears or starts to force the issue. This results in pointless offensive fouls, turnovers and or techincal fouls.

3. He is a turnover machine. He can easily provide 10 turnovers himself any given night.

Those are my two biggest gripes about Stoudemire.

The one thing I will say is that Bargnani didn't score his 40+ against Stoudemire. Wilson Chandler was "guarding" Gallinari, and the Knicks were doubling with Landry Fields and Gallinari. Amar'e really wasn't in the equation at all. However, Amar'e found his own way to take himself out of that game, as he missed a myriad of rebounds that he should have corralled, played un-focused defense and was taken out of the game within the first 7 minutes because he committed more than one foul in the first quarter.

My main issue with Stoudemire is that IMO, a good "franchise player" should be able to do the work of more than one player (besides scoring), and record more assists than turnovers. Stoudemire seems more interested in the glamorous aspects of basketball and his passing (or lack thereof) leads me to believe that his overall feel for the game is weak.

For example, during last years post-season, Stoudemire recorded 18 assists to 40 turnovers, including 3 assists to 16 turnovers against LA in the WCF. One might say "oh, well he's a power forward he doesn't need tons of assists"...My counter to that is that a good franchise player should always be more likely to record an assist than a turnover (or be very close to 1:1 ast:to ratio) and/or anchor an effective defense...regardless of position. Stoudemire isn't a very effective passer, and he isn't an effective defender; how many successful franchise players can't pass or defend? Seriously, think about teams that won at least one playoff series last season...I guarantee their best player could pass or defend....In some cases, both.

Do I think Amar'e should be considered a franchise player? Yeah, just not a great one.

[asubennett]

a good franchise player should always be more likely to record an assist than a turnover (or be very close to 1:1 ast:to ratio) and/or anchor an effective defense...regardless of position. Stoudemire isn't a very effective passer, and he isn't an effective defender; how many successful franchise players can't pass or defend?

Exactly. And that is why the Suns never won a 'chip with Nash and Amare. Their two best players were weak defensively. And one of them was a terrible passer. And both are turnover prone, although Nash's turnovers are more acceptable because the ball is always in his damn hands.

Lets reveiw last few championship teams -
Lakers - Kobe Best Player - All NBA First team Defender. Gasol Best passing big in game
Lakers - Ditto
Celtics - Garnett Best Player - DPOY. Allen / Peirece / Rondo - All solid offensively and defensively
Spurs - Duncan - All NBA First Team Defender. Parker. Ginobli - All solid offensively and defensively
Heat - Shaq. Last year of prime Shaq. Changes the paint. Wade - Solid O and D
Spurs - See two lines above
Pistons - GREAT TEAM DEFENSE - solid shooters in RIP and Chauncey
Spurs - See two lines above
Lakers - Shaq and Kobe
Lakers - Shaq and Kobe
Lakers - Shaq and Kobe
Spurs - See 4 lines above
Bulls - Jordan - 1st team all nba defense / Pippen 1st team all nba defense
Bulls - ditto
Bulls - ditto
Rocketrs - Olajuwon - dominate on both ends
Rockets - Olajuwon - dominate on both ends

[YFZblu]

a good franchise player should always be more likely to record an assist than a turnover (or be very close to 1:1 ast:to ratio) and/or anchor an effective defense...regardless of position. Stoudemire isn't a very effective passer, and he isn't an effective defender; how many successful franchise players can't pass or defend?

Exactly. And that is why the Suns never won a 'chip with Nash and Amare. Their two best players were weak defensively.

I don't think Steve Nash's defense hindered the Suns championship hopes in any way whatsoever. Defense starts in the front court, and perimeter players simply can't do much of anything defensively anymore. Amar'e is and was atrocious in that regard. Totally aloof out there most of the time.

[YFZblu]

Oh, and I just watched the video the OP posted--Nice work.

I'd also like to submit two of my own.

First he muscles himself into the lane, makes a pass for a three pointer. Then in true Amar'e fashion, he enters 'dolt' mode and forgets to box out for a rebound on the other end. I've watched that video 10+ times and have no idea how he misses out on this...Ed Davis should have had no chance:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoRCgTgIYp4[/youtube]

After Landry Fields leaves to double team Bargnani, Demar Derozen not only blows by Amar'e, but Amar'e RUNS BY HIM IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFCbcGJ2x28[/youtube]



Just keeping it objective :p

[Just_Win]

90% of this thread is sounding like amar'e fans instead of suns fans. You should be hoping we get a championship instead of the knicks. Ol' dude left GET OVER IT.

I'm hoping he eventually does for the Knicks, what Mark Messier did for the Rangers; pull and bring a long storied franchise out of the abysmal pit of inferiority to a Championship (in an off-Phoenix year of course).

[Calvin Klein]

I miss Amare. I am happy for him and NY. But I would still like to see him perform in the playoffs and in for an extended period of time to make any conclusions. So far, nothing is new. We all knew he could perform at this level, specially against bad teams like he has.

[sekira]

suns were really stupid to not give him max money.

Knicks are prospering, suns are suffering.

[RaisingArizona]

suns were really stupid to not give him max money.

Knicks are prospering, suns are suffering.

When you guys are paying him 20+ million every year at the end of his contract when he's out with another microfracture, I'll go over there and repost your statement.

Knicks win in the short term
Suns win in the long term

[Christine-In-AZ]

No matter what has been written or claimed, I'll never believe that if Sarver had matched the Knicks offer dollar for dollar, year for year...that Amare would have stayed with the Suns. There was too much "more" for STAT to gain by taking his talents to Manhattan. The Suns would have had to give him the max years of 6 at max money.

...And if he had taken a 6 year max deal with the Suns, I have serious doubts PHX would get the max effort, game in game out total commitment, that Amare has been delivering so far for the Knicks. Going to New York has given Amare that "something more" he needed to focus his energies. I don't think this NYK Stoudemire could ever be fully realized in a Suns uni. Amare on the current Suns roster would be an enormous improvement, but I think he'd still be who we thought he was...a fantastic, yet just too often a frustrating talent.

My "Amare frustration" is now a very different color, but I still think it was the right call by Sarver to let him go.