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GONYK wrote:
1. Melo and Bernard are comparable offensively
2. Melo is no Kobe. Bryant is elite for many reasons outside of shooting %. Since Melo's only claim to fame is scoring, it gets put under more of a microscope, especially when he has all the tools to be a more efficient scorer, and does not utilize them.
seren wrote:GONYK wrote:
1. Melo and Bernard are comparable offensively
2. Melo is no Kobe. Bryant is elite for many reasons outside of shooting %. Since Melo's only claim to fame is scoring, it gets put under more of a microscope, especially when he has all the tools to be a more efficient scorer, and does not utilize them.
Can you please list those reasons? I am interested to learn.
DishAndSwish wrote:Melo and Bernard's mid-range game are comparable. But Bernard attempted only a total of 137 three pointers for his career. Carmelo grossly exceeds that number per season -- which obviously factors into shooting percentage. I don't know how you think their games are comparable in that regard. And I never said Carmelo is as good as Kobe. I only said their games are more similar.
At ESPN we do not criticize other news outlets. So I'll just say this: When dust settles, we'll see who was accurate.
about 1 hour ago via web
What I reported is that Melo will not sign extension if traded unless he is traded to NY Knicks. That info is 100 percent correct. Trust me.
about 9 hours ago via web
KnicksGod wrote:Sheridan, in case nobody has posted:At ESPN we do not criticize other news outlets. So I'll just say this: When dust settles, we'll see who was accurate.
about 1 hour ago via web
What I reported is that Melo will not sign extension if traded unless he is traded to NY Knicks. That info is 100 percent correct. Trust me.
about 9 hours ago via web
GONYK wrote:seren wrote:GONYK wrote:
1. Melo and Bernard are comparable offensively
2. Melo is no Kobe. Bryant is elite for many reasons outside of shooting %. Since Melo's only claim to fame is scoring, it gets put under more of a microscope, especially when he has all the tools to be a more efficient scorer, and does not utilize them.
Can you please list those reasons? I am interested to learn.
Sure
1. Absolutely unbreakable and borderline sociopathic desire to win
2. Leadership
3. Ability to run triangle
4. Clutch
5. Defense
Those are just off the top of my head
GONYK wrote:DishAndSwish wrote:Melo and Bernard's mid-range game are comparable. But Bernard attempted only a total of 137 three pointers for his career. Carmelo grossly exceeds that number per season -- which obviously factors into shooting percentage. I don't know how you think their games are comparable in that regard. And I never said Carmelo is as good as Kobe. I only said their games are more similar.
This is exactly what I am referring to when I say that Melo has all the tools to be more efficient, but does not utilize them. Melo shooting more threes when he is not a great 3pt shooter does not make his offensive game different from Bernard. It just make him dumber than Bernard.
seren wrote:GONYK wrote:seren wrote:
Can you please list those reasons? I am interested to learn.
Sure
1. Absolutely unbreakable and borderline sociopathic desire to win
2. Leadership
3. Ability to run triangle
4. Clutch
5. Defense
Those are just off the top of my head
It sounds like you made these up. Melo, statistically, has been the most clutch player in the league for a while. Listing ability to run triangle significantly diminishes the quality of your post. First, that is irrelevant. Second, how do you know? When did Melo execute the triangle? Your point about desire to win is absurdly mute. Kobe won nothing without a dominant big man. He could not even carry his team to the playoffs in those seasons. Whereas Melo has been carrying his team to the playoffs since his rookie season. I don't buy into that leadership story you came up as well. Kobe showed that he can't control the lockerroom. So, overall, big fail.
DishAndSwish wrote:Okay, now you're just being (Please Use More Appropriate Word). You're basically saying that Melo should stop shooting 3's? It is a statistic he has improved upon every year of his career (except for last year where he regressed slightly) and is part of what makes him such a threatening offensive player. He still shot .354 and .371 between 07 to 09, which is not spectacular by any means but pretty damn good and only slightly worse than the supposed sharpshooter, Gallinari. The funny thing is, he actually doesn't even attempt a lot of 3 pointers for his position. He only averages about 2 three point attempts per game, which is not a lot at all. In fact, it's half as many 3 point attempts than Lebron James per game, and Lebron is only shooting .329 from behind the arc for his career. Kobe shot for a lesser percentage in the same comparable seasons, and he averages over 5 three point attempts per game.
knicks742 wrote:GONYK
Melo is also a pretty good rebounder. He is a threat offensively and a good rebounder for his position. More importantly, he is a late game threat, the ability to make shots at end of games is a skill all to itself and he has it.
As long as we keep Amar'e, Felton, Mozzy and Fields, I don't care who goes. Get Melo.
knicks742 wrote:GONYK
Melo is also a pretty good rebounder. He is a threat offensively and a good rebounder for his position. More importantly, he is a late game threat, the ability to make shots at end of games is a skill all to itself and he has it.
As long as we keep Amar'e, Felton, Mozzy and Fields, I don't care who goes. Get Melo.
GONYK wrote:seren wrote:
It sounds like you made these up. Melo, statistically, has been the most clutch player in the league for a while. Listing ability to run triangle significantly diminishes the quality of your post. First, that is irrelevant. Second, how do you know? When did Melo execute the triangle? Your point about desire to win is absurdly mute. Kobe won nothing without a dominant big man. He could not even carry his team to the playoffs in those seasons. Whereas Melo has been carrying his team to the playoffs since his rookie season. I don't buy into that leadership story you came up as well. Kobe showed that he can't control the lockerroom. So, overall, big fail.
LOL
Not to make this into a Kobe vs. Melo thing, because anybody who thinks that is a legit argument can't be serious in any way shape or form.
Melo being more clutch statistically does not diminish Kobe being clutch. It also does not discount the fact that the Lakers have less games that come down to the wire than the Nuggets.
If you think Melo can run the triangle when he displays no playmaking ability now makes me think you don't know what the triangle is.
LOL at Kobe's desire to win being questioned.
You say Kobe never won without a big man? Well, Carmelo has never won. Period.
All you proved is that they all should probably stop shooting so many threes. Even then, if Melo takes so few, it shouldn't skew his % as much as you claim. Certainly not enough to discredit a comparison between him and King.
We all got on Wilson last season and at the beginning of this one because he shot too many 3's. It is not a matter of how many you shoot. It is a matter of shooting them when you are much, much more effective scoring in other ways.
I didn't know we that's how we measure a player's career now. I thought it how many rings you have lead your team to, not how many first round exits you have lead your team to.seren wrote:Carmelo won more without a dominant big man than Kobe won without a dominant big man. End of story there.
I do not question Kobe's desire to win nor his clutch nor his ability to run an offense that totally two teams use in this league. My original question, which you failed to answer, are the qualities of Kobe that Melo does not have. What makes you think Melo has less desire to win? What evidence do you have that suggests Kobe is more clutch than Melo is. You are even bringing up a completely irrelevant point about an offensive system Melo was never a part of. That is quite a reach. Overall, you provided nothing.
GONYK wrote:knicks742 wrote:GONYK
Melo is also a pretty good rebounder. He is a threat offensively and a good rebounder for his position. More importantly, he is a late game threat, the ability to make shots at end of games is a skill all to itself and he has it.
As long as we keep Amar'e, Felton, Mozzy and Fields, I don't care who goes. Get Melo.
I acknowledged that already. I have maintained like 2 pages back that he is a great scorer and excellent rebounder for his position. How does admitting that discredit anything else I have said?
DishAndSwish wrote:All you proved is that they all should probably stop shooting so many threes. Even then, if Melo takes so few, it shouldn't skew his % as much as you claim. Certainly not enough to discredit a comparison between him and King.
We all got on Wilson last season and at the beginning of this one because he shot too many 3's. It is not a matter of how many you shoot. It is a matter of shooting them when you are much, much more effective scoring in other ways.
There's no question that the three pointer is an inherently inefficient shot. Indeed, I discounted Clyde because the 3 pointer didn't even exist when he played, which likely explains why he was a more efficient scorer. The point is, you drew a comparison between King and Anthony (which by the way, considering King was one of the most dominant forwards in the NBA is a pretty lofty comparison), and I merely pointed out a major difference in their games.
I agree that players in general should shoot less three's, but it's something that is not going to go away particularly if you have a coach like Dantoni. It's just become such a fundamental part of today's game. If you read back to my earlier posts, one of the reservations I have about Carmelo joining the team, which I've pointed out before, is that I'm afraid under this system he will end up shooting even more three pointers, which we all know is not his greatest strength.
knicks742 wrote:GONYK wrote:knicks742 wrote:GONYK
Melo is also a pretty good rebounder. He is a threat offensively and a good rebounder for his position. More importantly, he is a late game threat, the ability to make shots at end of games is a skill all to itself and he has it.
As long as we keep Amar'e, Felton, Mozzy and Fields, I don't care who goes. Get Melo.
I acknowledged that already. I have maintained like 2 pages back that he is a great scorer and excellent rebounder for his position. How does admitting that discredit anything else I have said?
It doesn't I was just adding the rebounding portion. I agree with everything you have said but in the post I read you only mentioned his scoring so I just wanted to add that in. We cool.
GONYK wrote:I didn't know we that's how we measure a player's career now. I thought it how many rings you have lead your team to, not how many first round exits you have lead your team to.seren wrote:Carmelo won more without a dominant big man than Kobe won without a dominant big man. End of story there.I do not question Kobe's desire to win nor his clutch nor his ability to run an offense that totally two teams use in this league. My original question, which you failed to answer, are the qualities of Kobe that Melo does not have. What makes you think Melo has less desire to win? What evidence do you have that suggests Kobe is more clutch than Melo is. You are even bringing up a completely irrelevant point about an offensive system Melo was never a part of. That is quite a reach. Overall, you provided nothing.
Kobe wins this debate on defense alone.
Does Melo have Kobe's qualities? Totally possible, but he has not proven it. When he does, he will enter the conversation.