Any Problems Btw. Hedo & PG.s?

[leventuysal]

Many fans have been obsering that Nash&Dragic rarely pass the ball to Hedo. Why?
Is this personal?

[Kerrsed]

BALL?

[BVPN]

Because it doesn't come back.

[Reverse_Angle]

Because it doesn't come back.

Are you for real?

It is true, he doesn't get enough touches. When a new member is added to a society, it needs to prove himself in order to be accepted (especially when you were previously accused of being lazy and have a huge guaranteed contract). They are going through that phase. It is gonna be fine.

[Miklo]

Many fans have been obsering that Nash&Dragic rarely pass the ball to Hedo. Why?
Is this personal?

How much is Hedo paying you?

I think Hedo probably brings with him the biggest adjustments we need to make; since we want to use him as a ballhandler/passer I do see some confusion with who comes up the court and even where he positions himself.

Unfortunately he's not helping his case with his performance, even with a couple flashes of brilliance. I personally think we need to give him more BALL because he could be a super versatile tool for us. But yeah I would think that's part of what we see with the ball movement to Hedo.

The funny thing is though, numbers would tell you that Nash/Dragic are giving Hedo a chance. 66% of Hedo's baskets so far this season have been the result of an assist. JRich is at 71% and Warrick at 73, and those are the 2 you think of as being fed the ball the most. When you compare it to a pure creator who really isn't getting passes, just 16% of Nash's baskets are assisted.

So yeah I think a lot of what you're seeing is just adjustments that need to happen when you add such a multifaceted piece like Hedo.

[Sundamental]

Many fans have been obsering that Nash&Dragic rarely pass the ball to Hedo. Why?
Is this personal?

How much is Hedo paying you?

I think Hedo probably brings with him the biggest adjustments we need to make; since we want to use him as a ballhandler/passer I do see some confusion with who comes up the court and even where he positions himself.

Unfortunately he's not helping his case with his performance, even with a couple flashes of brilliance. I personally think we need to give him more BALL because he could be a super versatile tool for us. But yeah I would think that's part of what we see with the ball movement to Hedo.

The funny thing is though, numbers would tell you that Nash/Dragic are giving Hedo a chance. 66% of Hedo's baskets so far this season have been the result of an assist. JRich is at 71% and Warrick at 73, and those are the 2 you think of as being fed the ball the most. When you compare it to a pure creator who really isn't getting passes, just 16% of Nash's baskets are assisted.

So yeah I think a lot of what you're seeing is just adjustments that need to happen when you add such a multifaceted piece like Hedo.

While it is true that Hedo's game is probably the most difficult to integrate into the Suns style, I too have noticed numerous times Hedo has been wide open and doesn't receive the ball (and nobodies paying to say that ). I think the shot attempts bear this out. Richardson is averaging 15.3/gm while Hedo is only getting 8.0. Almost twice the amount and only playing 6 more minutes per game. I'd understand if Hedo were shooting poorly but he's not. He's making over 42% from downtown. My hope is you and RA are correct and it's just something that will be adjusted in time.

[Miklo]

Well that's a good point but at the same time, JRich is our go-to scorer. Performing at his best he's our first option (not counting Nash, since we're talking about people he passes to). 8 Shots a game is less than Hedo could be taking but it ain't nothing.

I mean, he's literally just our 4th or 5th scoring option - so while we can say we see him open without getting a pass sometimes, etc that's just part of the game. Every team has their systems, which is to say every team has guys who get open for shots but won't get the ball.

So are we ignoring Hedo? No - I'd call it under-utilizing. In other words, we know we're not giving him the ball for 15 shots - it's the core of the strategy that needs to change if we want to see his role increased. As I mentioned before, I'd argue that for the role we're giving him, he's getting plenty of action.

It seems like we feel differently about WHY it's happening, but the same about wanting it to get smoother and for him to be able to prove his worth in a bigger role.

[Reverse_Angle]

Miklo, your efforts of being reasonable amazes me...Regardless of the question (i.e that DeAndre trade thread).

Aside from Nash, only Hedo and Hill are capable of crating their own shots consistently. Give the ball to J-Rich, Warrick or Fry and let's see what they can do with it. So what you are talking about is just partially the problem.

Hill is often given the chance to take his mid-range jumper (team spacing, screens, etc) and no one sane would be against Nash penetrations. But Hedo is not allowed to that and when he is, it happens usually late in the shot clock. So basically you have a close range closer, a mid-rage closer and an grossly under-utilized long range closer when the offensive game dies. Why snip one of the options almost all the time?

Hedo not getting enough dishes is as big as him not being allowed to go of the book. Again, this won't be an issue once Hedo proves himself and the team will believe that he is not going to be traded anytime soon.

[airReacker]

Hedo cant create his own shot, RA. His first step is too slow to do that. Thats why his isolation sets end up with a fade away jumper after a fake side step. I cant call "create" for that moves, may be you can and i wont blame you for that. He needs hard SCREENS to make his plays but not like soft ones in here. Contrarily, this year he is setting screens for his mates. Another + in his adaptation list.

Back to topic. Everything is going too bad for Hedo. This was the worst case scenario for the season and its happening right now. At the season start, he was requested to be spot-up shooter while he was adapting the new conditions; Suns System, his PF role, his team mates etc. He unfortunately started with a cold shooting streak. More importantly his early ticky-tack fouls at he beginning of games took his game rhythm sent him to the bench. Those were his homeworks and he failed undoubtedly. Could Sun have insisted on him at first unit in this adaptation period? may be yes, but had not to. 8th seed playoff team should win as much as it can and hell he is no PF / Hill is a great player esp for this system. Now, for the period No one can blame Nash for Hedo's struggles. A bit but not much. Its normal to have some old addicts coming from previous seasons. Frye, Jrich, Hill, Amare (light version) were his old weapons. I meant it is not like Calderon case. Nash has zero ego and nothing to prove to the World. Hedo and Nash were just adapting, that was all. This is just a 5-6 minutes both are on the court at the same time. Not a big issue to discuss anymore.

Goran and Hedo love eachothers. I know it from World Championship. I thought it is going to be better for both (still at this bandwagon). I'm laughing to those who says Hedo had negative effect on Dragic's improvement or they were killing eachothers games. Bullchit. If its the case it should have been valid for Meer too, or Alston at best when they were heading through Finals. Meer and Dragic are both more like slashers than play-makers. Now look at Meer's last two year performance and tell me He is having breakout year after Hedo. No, He is struggling just like whole team. It took one whole season to adjust themselves in Magic but it worked at the end. Patience guyz!!! They are not killing each-others game, they are lacking inside-out balance at 2nd unit roster and there is not enough shooter there. Hedo is playing at Center, think rest of it. I hope this Gentry's craziness on rotations will stop soon. No matter who will get cut, even if its Hedo, just stick with it, coach.

No more experiments, projects whatsoever...... More defined roles, more practice.

[JasonDaPsycho]

Dragic is most effective in the paint. A passing big would make all the sense in the world (eg DRose and Carlos Boozer). But Hedo is no "big". He's just someone who creates mismatches. He, again, IS NOT VERSATILE. He just creates mismatches. And Dragic really is a two-guard, so with or without the ball shouldn't be a big deal. As long as he's getting his touches, then all is good.

Still, screw Hedo. Dude's getting paid JKidd money but not making JKidd contributions.
I'm surprised to see a FO trading for someone getting more overpaid than Wesley Matthews last summer at the time (which turned out to be a HUGE surprise).

[airReacker]

“Definitely with Turkoglu, he adds a size matchup being at 6-10 he can play the 2, the 3, the 1. Obviously, a walking matchup problem,” Paul Pierce said following practice on Sunday. “I just think the things that he does playing with the ball and off the ball in the post, he’s one of the most versatile small forwards in the NBA and one of the toughest that I’ve seen to guard."

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2010/05/24/for-celtics-there-was-much-ado-about-hedo/

[airReacker]

Just noticed, There is no 4 or 5 in Pierce's counts. Havent seen him play 1,2,3 but just 4,5 in PHX. seems pathetic but true.

[Reverse_Angle]

Just noticed, There is no 4 or 5 in Pierce's counts. Havent seen him play 1,2,3 but just 4,5 in PHX. seems pathetic but true.

See my sig.

And you are painting the picture much worse than it is. His percentages are decent for the time being, just that he needs to be at least a 14/6/4 guy. He is gonna be fine here and the fans are coming around, just as they eventually did with almost every new addition.

[JasonDaPsycho]

“Definitely with Turkoglu, he adds a size matchup being at 6-10 he can play the 2, the 3, the 1. Obviously, a walking matchup problem,” Paul Pierce said following practice on Sunday. “I just think the things that he does playing with the ball and off the ball in the post, he’s one of the most versatile small forwards in the NBA and one of the toughest that I’ve seen to guard."

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2010/05/24/for-celtics-there-was-much-ado-about-hedo/

So?
He's just a point forward who's tall. Give any point guard his height and we all start calling them versatile.

[Reverse_Angle]

“Definitely with Turkoglu, he adds a size matchup being at 6-10 he can play the 2, the 3, the 1. Obviously, a walking matchup problem,” Paul Pierce said following practice on Sunday. “I just think the things that he does playing with the ball and off the ball in the post, he’s one of the most versatile small forwards in the NBA and one of the toughest that I’ve seen to guard."

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2010/05/24/for-celtics-there-was-much-ado-about-hedo/

So?
He's just a point forward who's tall. Give any point guard his height and we all start calling them versatile.

Here is my last contribution to this thread. It is not like walls have ears.

One of the reasons we (and most people) call him versatile is that he is tall AND have point guard skills. Do you ever wonder why all the point guards are under 6' 3"??? I can't believe I am having that conversation.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtL1Qzbg-_w[/youtube]

This happens, because he is versatile. Frye is tall, Hedo is versatile. This is supposed to be 2009 by the way, just before his season in Toronto began.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4XpQM66YEU&feature=related[/youtube]

Forget about the circus shots. His first step is slow? Obviously he is not the fastest or quickest guy in the league, but he has some chops. And he makes up for his "lack of amazing speed" with his IQ most of the time. He has more than decent first step. Look how he dribbles the ball and how much control he has. Much better than J-Rich and J-Rich is only 6' 6".

[Kerrsed]

Goran and Hedo love each others.

[Reverse_Angle]

Goran and Hedo love each others.

Only happens in Phoenix.

Howevers, they might have liked each others before they started to play togethers, I doubt Hedo likes Dragic anymores.