Can we shut the book on the Williams/Paul debate?

[BarneyGumble]

Raymond Felton went off on Chris Paul last night,

"Yeah, but CP3 had 17 and 10! He is the greatest ever! Didnt you know stats are more important than winning???"

Mocking people who say that stats matter in an effort to agree with someone boasting about Ray's game(statistically I imagine) vs Paul is kind of counterintuitive.

Not saying I have any feelings about it one way or the other, but that post does not make sense with what I think you're going for.

Im mocking the people who use stats, and only stats, and who discount other important things, like winning and longevity, when attempting to make solid arguments.

[rsavaj]

Im mocking the people who use stats, and only stats, and who discount other important things, like winning and longevity, when attempting to make solid arguments.

That's well and fine but if you're using "longevity" as a basis, you shouldn't be reccing the guy using one head to head match(Felton vs Paul).

[NYK 455]

Felton outplaying Paul means nothing in the Williams/Paul debate.

[BarneyGumble]

Im mocking the people who use stats, and only stats, and who discount other important things, like winning and longevity, when attempting to make solid arguments.

That's well and fine but if you're using "longevity" as a basis, you shouldn't be reccing the guy using one head to head match(Felton vs Paul).

Sorry man, the issue here is I forgot the green font. There are people who's posts are littered throughout this thread who's messages are pretty clear: CP3 is the best PG in the NBA because his PER are head and shoulders above everyone else's.

I disagree with them, and I am mocked for it. So I am just returning serve....

[BarneyGumble]

Thought I'd bump this thread. Williams with his 3rd straight 30+ point game last night. Chris Paul fading fast, and he's not even injured yet.

I'd say the book is shut and locked.

[theDEATH]

I'm more of a D-Will fan, but I take CP3.

It's funny how all the arguments for D-Will are always poor/stupid while the ones for Paul are much more legitimate and based on actual evidence.

Also you never see Paul fans admit D-Will is better but you do see D-Will fans (like me) admit that Paul is better. Says something.

Dude you say all the arguments for Paul are great and for Deron are not. Why? You keep saying that....but it just sounds like hot air. GMs would take wins over stats any day of the f-ing week....and just because you are a Deron "fan" does not lend you any special sort of credibility. To me, you are just another pimple-faced stranger typing behind a screen somewhere who thinks he knows something but doesnt....

Funny, cause' your SN being DWill_daShizzle does hurt your credibility. The point he was making was that he was going to overcome his bias and vote for Paul. OTOH, we have you, who has dismissed every argument in favour of Paul and show no signs of impartiality.

[aggo]

yeah, thanks for bumping this so that chris paul can take a dump on deron in every meaningful statistical measure so far this season.


http://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA2.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/10NOH1.HTM


scroll all the way down


hint: Paul >>>>>>> Deron


summary:

when deron is off the court this year, his team gives up 12.5 less points per 100 possessions
when paul is off the court, his team gives up 4.6 more points per 100 possessions

NOH's NET (def + offensive) points per 100 possession for on/off court when paul plays= +19.9 pts
UTA's NET (def + offensive) points per 100 possession for on/off court when deron plays= -7.7 pts

net team points when paul on the court= +139
net team points when deron on the court +6


NOH's eff fg% when paul is on the court= + 5.5%
UTA's eff fg% when deron is on the court= +1.1%

NOH's eff fg% given up when paul is on the court = +1.2%
UTA's eff fg% against when deron is on the court = +3%

NOH's assisted fg% when paul is on the court= +7%
UTA's assisted fg% when deron is on the court = -1%

summary:

paul still destroys deron.

[kingkirk]

When you start a thread like this, your never going to get the approval or answer you seek simply because of your username.

Not saying i dont agree with you, i personally think Deron has been number 1 since last season, but this thread was always going to have Paul written all over it.

[dogrufus]

Damn, nice post AggO. Of course all of those incontrovertible hard facts will be bouncing off the thin candy shell that encases the OP's brain, but great hustle.

Is it time we starting calling him Eron Williams? I keep hearing how he's better on defense because he can guard SGs, but maybe someone should tell them he's supposed to try and make opposing SGs shoot worse, not better.

[Scoob Seriously]

Advanced stats

You guys pretty good at trollng, i'll hand it to ya.

[Xsy]

My avatar and signature discredit anything I say in this topic.

But hey, Chris Paul is still pretty good.

[meat tray]

yeah, thanks for bumping this so that chris paul can take a dump on deron in every meaningful statistical measure so far this season.


http://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA2.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/10NOH1.HTM


scroll all the way down


hint: Paul >>>>>>> Deron


summary:

when deron is off the court this year, his team gives up 12.5 less points per 100 possessions
when paul is off the court, his team gives up 4.6 more points per 100 possessions

NOH's NET (def + offensive) points per 100 possession for on/off court when paul plays= +19.9 pts
UTA's NET (def + offensive) points per 100 possession for on/off court when deron plays= -7.7 pts

net team points when paul on the court= +139
net team points when deron on the court +6


NOH's eff fg% when paul is on the court= + 5.5%
UTA's eff fg% when deron is on the court= +1.1%

NOH's eff fg% given up when paul is on the court = +1.2%
UTA's eff fg% against when deron is on the court = +3%

NOH's assisted fg% when paul is on the court= +7%
UTA's assisted fg% when deron is on the court = -1%

summary:

paul still destroys deron.

so because NO sucks when Paul is out that means Paul > Deron? I think you just proved NO has a crappy bench

[kingkirk]

My avatar and signature discredit anything I say in this topic.

But hey, Chris Paul is still pretty good.

Its always the way man, same with me in a Rondo v Rose thread.

For what its worth, Williams is number 1 IMO

[BarneyGumble]

My avatar and signature discredit anything I say in this topic.

But hey, Chris Paul is still pretty good.

Its always the way man, same with me in a Rondo v Rose thread.

For what its worth, Williams is number 1 IMO

I will take my chances on my credibility hinging on my username before I would on sticking all my "great player" eggs into the one basket that is statistics. Those fools fail to account for everything else that makes a player great, like winning, longevity, head to head results, and playoff runs etc.

[dogrufus]

I will take my chances on my credibility hinging on my username before I would on sticking all my "great player" eggs into the one basket that is statistics. Those fools fail to account for everything else that makes a player great, like winning, longevity, head to head results, and playoff runs etc.

And you thinking those things are more important than stats is ENTIRELY a result of you thinking those categories go in Deron Williams' favor. If Williams had better stats, you'd be arguing that stats are the most important. Your act is paper thin.

[BarneyGumble]

And you thinking those things are more important than stats is ENTIRELY a result of you thinking those categories go in Deron Williams' favor. If Williams had better stats, you'd be arguing that stats are the most important. Your act is paper thin.

Wrong. I absolutely think stats are important. I just dont have a myopic view of their importance, i.e. that they mean EVERYTHING in determining greatness. You talk about Deron like his stats pale in comparison. Sorry to burst your bubble...but DWill was percentage points lower than Paul in points and assists in their early years, and now DWill's stats in those areas are stronger. Sure, Paul is stronger in some parts of his game than Williams....but Williams, being on par or slightly below Paul, has shown he dominates every other meaningful part of determining greatness. Something that you fail to acknowledge.

Again, are you a big Sharif Abdur Rahim fan too?

[bigfan26]

I'm gonna rudely interrupt your disccusion gentlemen, by saying this statistically paul is shown to be better than Dwill.

However, i wouldn't use that purely to say paul is better.

IMHO, i'd rather dwill have the ball in crunch time than paul.

[dogrufus]

I'm gonna rudely interrupt your disccusion gentlemen, by saying this statistically paul is shown to be better than Dwill.

However, i wouldn't use that purely to say paul is better.

IMHO, i'd rather dwill have the ball in crunch time than paul.

Cal me crazy, but I'd rather have the ball in the hands of the PG with the better 3 point shooting, FT shooting, overall shooting efficiency, and assist/TO ratio at crunch time.

[Rapcity_11]

And you thinking those things are more important than stats is ENTIRELY a result of you thinking those categories go in Deron Williams' favor. If Williams had better stats, you'd be arguing that stats are the most important. Your act is paper thin.

Wrong. I absolutely think stats are important. I just dont have a myopic view of their importance, i.e. that they mean EVERYTHING in determining greatness. You talk about Deron like his stats pale in comparison. Sorry to burst your bubble...but DWill was percentage points lower than Paul in points and assists in their early years, and now DWill's stats in those areas are stronger. Sure, Paul is stronger in some parts of his game than Williams....but Williams, being on par or slightly below Paul, has shown he dominates every other meaningful part of determining greatness. Something that you fail to acknowledge.

Again, are you a big Sharif Abdur Rahim fan too?

SAR was a borderline all-star talent with the numbers to support that. Nothing more, nothing less.

WEAK, as usual.

[Bgil]

Anyone care to answer why the Hornets are a borderline playoff team and the Jazz are a borderline contender?