Bean Burrito / Nick Young Appreciation Thread.

[Kanyewest]

All in all, people are being taken in by Nick's 20-some game performance as a good scorer on a terrible team. Shades of Courtney Alexander, really.

And the Wizards got the #17 pick in the draft for Courtney Alexander.

[Induveca]

I agree that Young is nothing like Ginobili. I disagree that one must have a well-rounded game to be anything better than an 8th or 9th man. If Young can score at a reasonably high volume and maintain his efficiency, he's a 5th or 6th man - particularly in an offense where the PG dominates the ball.

If (and it's a big if) Young continues to score like he is, we're talking about a top 6-10 scorer in the league from the SG position. Factor in his pretty good on-the-ball defense and I just don't see why he can't be a starter. He's basically a more efficient prime Rip Hamilton, but with tunnel vision.

To put it into perspective, this guy was an all-star:

Code: Select all

hamilton,  PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO   PF eFG%  TS%  PER
2007-08   19.5  3.7  4.7  1.1  0.2  2.1  2.7 .515 .552 18.2
2006-07   20.6  3.9  4.0  0.8  0.2  2.2  3.2 .486 .551 18.2
2005-06   21.9  3.5  3.7  0.7  0.2  2.4  2.8 .512 .553 18.2

Why is this guy a 9th man?

Code: Select all

young,nic  PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO   PF eFG%  TS%  PER
2010-11   20.7  3.2  0.9  0.9  0.5  1.2  2.6 .530 .568 17.0

3 assists per game (along with one extra turnover a game) is the difference between an All-Star and a bit role player?

To me, the real question is whether or not he can maintain this scoring pace. I still have plenty of doubts.

I had posted pretty much the same thing in another thread last week Nate. Their per 36 numbers (Hamilton/Young) are almost identical. Young should be resigned, his game is not only statistically similar to Hamilton, but their style of play as well. Both are solid coming off screens and are great mid range jump shooters.

It's not a quality seen in the league much these days. Either guys run towards the hoop hoping to draw the foul or are shooting threes. He's a great guy to have, if I trade anyone it's Blatche. I have a feeling he's not going to get much better. He's regressed majorly.

[hands11]

Hamilton did that as a starter and the #1 option for his team's offense. He was the focus of the opposition's defense. Opposing coaches game-planned for him and tried to stop him. Nick is coming off the bench for a terrible team. No one game plans for him because they don't need to. Nick can score 30 and it won't change the outcome of the game because the Wizards suck. I don't believe Young would do this well as the alpha offensive player for a team with high expectations. To be blunt, his basketball IQ isn't good enough for him to adjust once defenses started gearing up to take away his favorite moves.

If Nick is starting, but not the #1 offensive option, how is he going to contribute? That puts him back on the bench, but with the same issues. If he's the 6th man, he's going to need to enter the game as that #1 option. If he's on a good team, opposing teams will game plan for him and we're right back to the same old questions: How does he contribute when he's not scoring? How will he adjust when good defensive teams take away his pet moves?

All that is before getting to whether his improved efficiency is sustainable. I think it's not because he's shooting so many **** shots at such a high percentage. That **** shot percentage is markedly different than his shooting from that range in previous years (40%, 40%, 41% to 57%). My expectation is that the percentage will start to drop -- especially if defenses start game-planning him. And then the question becomes, how does he contribute when he's less of a scorer? We're in his 4th season now, and the answer is still the same as it was when he was a rookie.

You must have missed the Lakers game. There main focus was to try to stop Nick and the Wizard has few if any other threats on the court. Kobe took it as a personal challenge to put the kid back in the box after what he did to them the game before.

Nick still scored 20 and he was 0-4 from 3 in doing it.

What Nick needs to do to be more dominate, I have seen signs of his trying to do this year and that is rebounding, scrapping for loss balls, passing the ball when needed and for Gods sack, TAKING IT TO THE RACK.

He needs to use all of his athleticism to have the biggest impact on the game that he can. He needs to be a basketball player and not just a scorer. He has to develop that mentality that he is going to will his team to winning by whatever means necessary.

Ok, Nick, since you seem to be reading, we will pick this up again next game.

Nice job young man. I saw about 5 drives and you went 9-10 from the line. I also saw the effort fighting for rebounds and playing tough. A+ and a gold star.

Now if your coach would only start you in a games like this, everyone would be happy.

[pancakes3]

ouch. shot down on 3 separate posts.

i still maintain my stance, though. NEW N1 (key word NEW, 20-games in, we shouldn't believe the hype edition) is a lot closer to Manu than he is to Rip or Kobe imo. He's not the tireless, route-runner that Rip is, and he doesn't have the diverse game that Kobe does. Right now he's coming off the bench, dropping a ton of points mainly off mid ranges (pull ups at that), shooting a few 3's, and drawing a few FTs here and there. He's also playing scrappy defense, and complete off-ball. dunno... there are real shades of manu there, to me at least.

seriously? nobody else sees this? am i taking crazy pills? Kobe and Rip over Manu?

[Hoopalotta]

I could see aspects of Manu's face up or pull up game in Nick as far as body movements or mechanics and such. That game winner Ginobli hit last night was not entirely un-Nick-like from a physical standpoint.

Things deviate a bit from there.

[Nivek]

ouch. shot down on 3 separate posts.

i still maintain my stance, though. NEW N1 (key word NEW, 20-games in, we shouldn't believe the hype edition) is a lot closer to Manu than he is to Rip or Kobe imo. He's not the tireless, route-runner that Rip is, and he doesn't have the diverse game that Kobe does. Right now he's coming off the bench, dropping a ton of points mainly off mid ranges (pull ups at that), shooting a few 3's, and drawing a few FTs here and there. He's also playing scrappy defense, and complete off-ball. dunno... there are real shades of manu there, to me at least.

seriously? nobody else sees this? am i taking crazy pills? Kobe and Rip over Manu?

If you're watching Nick Young and he's somehow reminding you of Manu, yeah -- I think you're taking crazy pills.

[Nivek]

As for the stuff about Nick's numbers looking like Hamilton's, I'm as much a numbers guy as anyone here, but the context of those numbers are crucial. There's an ocean of difference between the numbers posted by a guy coming off the bench for a bad team and a starter who's the #1 offensive option on a title contender.

[tontoz]

It was nice to see Nick attacking the basket last night. I wonder what brought that on.

[verbal8]

It was nice to see Nick attacking the basket last night. I wonder what brought that on.

Maybe he read this thread

[GhostsOfGil]

i think n1s new nick name should be n2.0

[tontoz]

It was nice to see Nick attacking the basket last night. I wonder what brought that on.

Maybe he read this thread

Could be

The timing of it is certainly interesting since there have been a lot of people on here lately talking about Nick not taking it to the basket.

[hands11]

It was nice to see Nick attacking the basket last night. I wonder what brought that on.

He reads my posts.

But since that probably isn't true, I would say it was his coaches.

This was the next logical thing for him to add to his game now that he seems to have settled into 32 minutes off the bench as a super scoring sub. He drove like 5-6 times and it started early.

I will be watching to see if he keeps it up. If he does, then this is a clear indication that he is listening to his coaches.

[nate33]

Don't overrate the 10 FTAs last night. The referees were calling lots of ticky tack stuff and Young got about 4 free throws simply because NJ was in the penalty.

I agree that Young's next phase of development must be to learn how to get to the free throw line, but I don't think he's there yet. If he can start drawing 8 FTA's a game, he'll be the next Kevin Martin, but with better D.

[tontoz]

Don't overrate the 10 FTAs last night. The referees were calling lots of ticky tack stuff and Young got about 4 free throws simply because NJ was in the penalty.

I agree that Young's next phase of development must be to learn how to get to the free throw line, but I don't think he's there yet. If he can start drawing 8 FTA's a game, he'll be the next Kevin Martin, but with better D.

It wasn't just the foul shots, it was the fact that he took it to the basket. This year he has been pulling up for a short jumper rather than going all the way to the basket. He has been avoiding the paint pretty consistently until last night.

If was funny watching him a couple of times when he got inside you could tell he was thinking "wtf do I do now". He is not used to being in there.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

ouch. shot down on 3 separate posts.

i still maintain my stance, though. NEW N1 (key word NEW, 20-games in, we shouldn't believe the hype edition) is a lot closer to Manu than he is to Rip or Kobe imo. He's not the tireless, route-runner that Rip is, and he doesn't have the diverse game that Kobe does. Right now he's coming off the bench, dropping a ton of points mainly off mid ranges (pull ups at that), shooting a few 3's, and drawing a few FTs here and there. He's also playing scrappy defense, and complete off-ball. dunno... there are real shades of manu there, to me at least.

seriously? nobody else sees this? am i taking crazy pills? Kobe and Rip over Manu?

If you're watching Nick Young and he's somehow reminding you of Manu, yeah -- I think you're taking crazy pills.

Even I don't require such strong meds, pancakes.

Just trying to be funny....

Pancakes did qualify the comparison and I agree that over the last few games Nick has been better than Rip and I can see a poor man's Manu. Manu impacted games off the bench for years before totally blowing up. Nick waits til this season to muscle up and start playing tough. He cannot slash, finish, or pass like Manu. Nick is cocky now like Manu. Dude laughed and talked mess while balling against the Lakers. Pancakes, I got your "crazy pill" back on this. Nick is playing high passion and playing well, stylistically closer to Manu's game than Rip's.

[Kanyewest]

Don't overrate the 10 FTAs last night. The referees were calling lots of ticky tack stuff and Young got about 4 free throws simply because NJ was in the penalty.

I agree that Young's next phase of development must be to learn how to get to the free throw line, but I don't think he's there yet. If he can start drawing 8 FTA's a game, he'll be the next Kevin Martin, but with better D.

Young also "lost" two free throws because he converted two baskets while he was fouled. Still, it was the Nets, Young was averaging less than 3 free throw attempts over his previous 5 games and only 2.8 free throw attempts per 36 minutes so far this season. Hopefully he's turned a corner, we'll have to see over the next few games.

[no D in Hibachi]

With the Arenas deal pretty close I think N1 is the most likely benefactor. He'll be starting now and probably have the featured role on offense--even if Wall returns, big IF. I could see him putting up big numbers if for no other reason he's probably the only player capable of taking on a bigger scoring role in Gil's absence.

[hands11]

Don't overrate the 10 FTAs last night. The referees were calling lots of ticky tack stuff and Young got about 4 free throws simply because NJ was in the penalty.

I agree that Young's next phase of development must be to learn how to get to the free throw line, but I don't think he's there yet. If he can start drawing 8 FTA's a game, he'll be the next Kevin Martin, but with better D.

He was very deliberate in his attempts to get to the hoop. It started early and he kept is up.

Like 5-6 times he drove hard to the hoop.

Now if he can mix in a pump fake and draw contact along with those drives, he will effect the game at a whole new level. It won't just be points. It will be points and fouls and that changes everything.

I'm pretty confident that this wasn't just a one game wonder thing. I think this is the next thing Flip has him focused on so I expect we will see more of this from Nick.

[TheBigThree]

There is no doubt in my mind that Nick's sudden consistent play has caused the team to look deeper into trading Gilbert.

I actually think a team of Wall, Nick, Howard/Thornton, Blatche/Booker, McGee/Seraphin would probably be a better rotation than having Gil in there chucking up 3s.

[Kanyewest]

With the Arenas deal pretty close I think N1 is the most likely benefactor. He'll be starting now and probably have the featured role on offense--even if Wall returns, big IF. I could see him putting up big numbers if for no other reason he's probably the only player capable of taking on a bigger scoring role in Gil's absence.

The thing is at least IMO Arenas has facilitated Young's offensive game. It will take a while for Wall and Young to mesh, but mostly because Wall is a rookie.