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Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma

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Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#1 » by Kerrsed » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:06 am

The Phoenix Dilemma
By: Bill Ingram

When the Phoenix Suns let Amar'e Stoudemire walk away there was a general understanding that the team had almost no chance of repeating last season's success. There was some vague hope that Hedo Turkoglu might be the right fit for the Suns, or that Josh Childress returning to the NBA might help, but with nearly a third of the 2010-2011 season in the books things are not going well in Phoenix. The Suns are a .500 team and in a dead heat with the Portland Trail Blazers and Memphis Grizzlies for the eighth and final playoff spot in the Western Conference.

"We're still trying to discover ourselves," Suns head coach Alvin Gentry admitted in attempted to define how his team would go about attacking the Dallas Mavericks tonight. "It's crazy, you know, we've played 24 games and we're still searching as to who we are and what we can be."

One thing the team learned early on is that Turkoglu isn't as versatile in their system as he was in Orlando's, where he helped the Magic advance to the NBA Finals two seasons ago. He's started, he's come off the bench, he's been the facilitator, he's been a spot-up shooter, and through it all he's struggled to find any level of consistency.

"We're just trying to make him fit into what we're doing," says Gentry. "We're trying to make him a four man and he's really not a four man. Now we're trying to play him as a three man and that clouds the situation even more. We're trying to play five guys in two spots and that doesn't work out minute-wise, time-wise, rotation-wise or anything. We'll continue to try to stick him in as a three and see if he'll give us what we need."

As for Childress, who is nursing a finger injury, he hasn't even been able to crack the rotation most nights, and instead of using a ten-deep rotation like he did last season Gentry has begun to shorten up his bench.

"It's tough," says Gentry. "It's really tough. The thing that's tough about it is that I've liked what both he and Earl (Clark) have done in practice, but at some point you have to tighten up your rotation and see if that's going to work for us. I'm not married to this totally, but I think we've got to look at this and see if this is what we need to make guys perform better. If it's not, then Josh is going to get right back in the rotations and we'll see what happens from there. He also needs to continue to let his finger heal, and I think he'll play better once the (splint) is off . . .it's his strong hand, his dribbling hand, so I think we'll see him better when that comes off."

Through it all Steve Nash has been a trooper. He's been in Phoenix through major roster moves before, but never through a summer in which his team just wasn't willing to spend the money to keep their primary offensive powerhouse in town.

"You're going to miss him, no question," Gentry said of Stoudemire, who is having an MVP season for the New York Knicks. "You're talking about a guy who's the best in the whole NBA at what he does, and when you're the best in the league at what you do and you leave a team, there's going to be a gap there and you're going to miss him. I think he's playing great and we're happy for him, but there's nobody that we can get in the league who could do for us what he did for us. Maybe a guy like Carlos Boozer would come close, but Amar'e's not here and we have to figure out how to play and be effective without him."

Still, Nash comes to work every day, continuing the grueling schedule that enables him to keep playing at a very high level even at his age.

"You know, I've said this all along: Age doesn't matter, it's how physically fit he is," says Gentry. "As long as he's as fit as he is, why is age even a factor? He takes care of himself, he takes care of his body, he eats right, and he always prepares physically and conditioning-wise for the start of the season. That's more important than the age factor."

Sources close to the situation say Nash is starting to waiver on spending the rest of his career in Phoenix, that his frustration level has been very high this season, and that he wouldn't be surprised if the team decided a trade might be the best answer for their star point guard, particularly with Gordan Dragic coming along nicely behind him. For now, however, the Suns are hoping the return of starting center Robin Lopez can help them turn things around before they get desperate enough to trade Nash.

"He looked pretty good, really," Gentry said of Lopez's first game back from injury. "He probably had more bounce than he did before he got hurt. You know, he gives us size and a little bit of presence in the lane, a rebounder, a shot-blocker, and it's great having a little bit of size in there. Without him we're a small team, by NBA standards, and he gives us a much-needed presence in the paint."

A presence in the paint is, indeed, a good start for the Suns, but there are still plenty of unanswered questions. Turkoglu and Childress are not having much of an impact, nor is Hakim Warrick, the other free agent signed to more or less replace Stoudemire. The business side of the NBA seems to have sabotaged what could have been a very special team on the basketball court, and now it's seems to be a matter of time before the new leadership in Phoenix decides to completely rebuild.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18222
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#2 » by schnakenpopanz » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:30 am

gret read, but who could not see it comming?
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#3 » by JMac1 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:31 am

Kerrsed wrote:
The Phoenix Dilemma
By: Bill Ingram

"It's tough," says Gentry. "It's really tough. The thing that's tough about it is that I've liked what both he and Earl (Clark) have done in practice,



the NBA seems to have sabotaged what could have been a very special team on the basketball court, and now it's seems to be a matter of time before the new leadership in Phoenix decides to completely rebuild.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18222


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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#4 » by rsavaj » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:46 am

hoopsworld is an awesome resource
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#5 » by Kerrsed » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:59 am

rsavaj wrote:hoopsworld is an awesome resource


Most of the time i label them Poopsworld, but there are only a few writers on there that i care to listen to, Ingram being one of them.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#6 » by Cutter » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:00 am

Sarver needs to think long and hard about this. If Nash is traded Suns revenue will plummet as fans lose interest in the team making it even harder to rebuild. Even if he deserves to be traded due to dimished play, or he himself requests a trade because the team is going downhill, this team will take a hit due to his unique following in the community.

I still say the best overall situation for the Suns is to rebuild the team around Nash one last time for the next 2 - 3 years, then lure him to the bench for a couple of years. From a pure win-loss perspective it makes more sense to trade Nash and go into rebuild mode, but this can take years to yield results. From a business perspective it makes more sense to do whatever it takes to keeps fans in the seats spending money, and to do that keeping Nash on this team is the better play.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#7 » by Just_Win » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:12 am

If Gentry likes what he see's in clark, he needs to just give him some minutes. It's not like we have anything to lose.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#8 » by Kerrsed » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:27 am

Cutter wrote:I still say the best overall situation for the Suns is to rebuild the team around Nash one last time for the next 2 - 3 years, then lure him to the bench for a couple of years. From a pure win-loss perspective it makes more sense to trade Nash and go into rebuild mode, but this can take years to yield results. From a business perspective it makes more sense to do whatever it takes to keeps fans in the seats spending money, and to do that keeping Nash on this team is the better play.


Rebuild around Nash? Seriously? :no:

Rebuild around our youth. Lopez and Dragic. Our Nash championship window is closed. And i dont know how it would keep fans by keeping Nash and having a loser team. Having a bad team with a bad record is how you lose fans. If they are just cheering because of Nash and nothing else (while we have a losing record), well then they wernt Suns fans to begin with. They where/are Nash fans.

Our owner isnt going to spend the money it takes to build a Championship contending team. We will be dealing with the Lakers and that would take mucho deniro to get the pieces around Nash that we need to beat them. Not getting those pieces and instead getting players like Turk/Childress/Warrick is just doing us a disservice.

Time to start fresh. We need to develop our players instead of paying top-dollar (which i think Sarver is through doing) letting other teams get young guys and developing them into stars.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#9 » by JMac1 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:34 am

Kerrsed wrote:Rebuild around Nash? Seriously? :no:

Rebuild around our youth. Lopez and Dragic. Our Nash championship window is closed. And i dont know how it would keep fans by keeping Nash and having a loser team. Having a bad team with a bad record is how you lose fans. If they are just cheering because of Nash and nothing else (while we have a losing record), well then they wernt Suns fans to begin with. They where/are Nash fans.

Our owner isnt going to spend the money it takes to build a Championship contending team. We will be dealing with the Lakers and that would take mucho deniro to get the pieces around Nash that we need to beat them. Not getting those pieces and instead getting players like Turk/Childress/Warrick is just doing us a disservice.

Time to start fresh. We need to develop our players instead of paying top-dollar (which i think Sarver is through doing) letting other teams get young guys and developing them into stars.


Well said my young Jedi warrior.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#10 » by Biscotti » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:13 am

I think you try to do both (Rebuild and Re-tool) This team isn't going to accomplish either goal as currently constructed. I think you try to retool on the fly, which for most years is unrealistic, but in a CBA year, could happen.

Next year's free agency, nor the draft is going to either help us rebuild or retool. It needs to be done by trades in my opinion. I don't think our draft pick will be good enough to make a big difference, nor do I feel any of the free agents available with either A) Sign with us, or B) Help us compete in the west.

This is what I propose:

If Randolph is available for a future 1st...you do it.

If Mayo is available, you offer J-Rich, and hope to get Thabeet as well. (Maybe J-Rich and Lawal for Thabeet and Mayo?)

If Camby is available you try to get him for a Lopez/Childress or Thabeet/Childress. (I think it makes sense for both teams)


And now for my craziest trade. Warrick/Dudley for Bradley/J O'Neal and a future 1st.


New lineup.

Nash/Dragic/Bradley
Mayo/Dragic
Hill/Turk/Clark
AR/O'Neal/Clark
Camby/Frye/Lopez or Thabeet.

-You have shooting with Nash/Mayo/Turk/Frye....so that's not lost
-Rebouding has improved with Randolph/Camby/and O'Neal
-Post D has improved with Camby/Randolph/O'Neal and a young center
-5 near 7 foot players to size up to the Lakers.
-When injuries happen, the Suns would have the depth to deal with it.
-With the depth the trades would give, you could run Nash at 28 minutes per game (alla Stockton). -Hill/O'Neal/Camby could all be fresh for the playoffs.

Vets for the playoffs: Nash/Hill/Turk/O'Neal/Camby
Youth movement: Dragic/Bradley/Clark/AR/Lopez or Thabeet.


I realize this isn't NBA 2k11..... However I think all the trades don't stench of homerism.


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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#11 » by lilfishi22 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:52 am

The problem with reloading around Nash is that we don't have attractive enough assets to make moves to get Nash the guys he needs. JRich would be a great guy to move but he's too valuable to the team. Hedo almost can't be moved and JChill/Dudley would only get us average talent back. Our young guys wouldn't be enough to get us a great player either and if they do, we lose a lot of depth.

Reloading is difficult and I just don't see us being able to put together a clean and successful rebuild, especially not around a front office that traded FOR Hedo Turkoglu and is now looking to shop him after 24 games.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#12 » by dantian » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:37 am

sad read.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#13 » by kermster » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:59 am

We cant retool around Nash. Who would want to come play with a guy thats gone soon? We got rid of the wrong guy. Nash the HOF, or STAT the possible HOF. We do have talent now though. We just need to figure out what were doing and put feelings aside. Trade Nash and rebuild with new guys. If you take Nash out were done this season, but give Drajic a couple months with players like Duds, Chill, Warick, Lopez, and I think we COULD DEVELOP into something great!
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#14 » by kermster » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:05 am

kermster wrote:We cant retool around Nash. Who would want to come play with a guy thats gone soon? We got rid of the wrong guy. Nash the HOF, or STAT the possible HOF. We do have talent now though. We just need to figure out what were doing and put feelings aside. Trade Nash and rebuild with new guys. If you take Nash out were done this season, but give Drajic a couple months with players like Duds, Chill, Warick, Lopez, and I think we COULD DEVELOP into something great!

May be true, May not but all I really know is that im getting tired of watching them play. The only thing exciting about them is the bench, and if Gentry is shortening it then whats the point?
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#15 » by JasonDaPsycho » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:43 am

JMac1 wrote:These two things says...............PLAY EARL CLARK!!

This.

Oh and the part where the article suggesting the possibility of Steve demanding the trade? I'll be rooting for him to do that if the situation doesn't improve.We don't want to see our franchise PG never playing in a finals game simply because our owner is way too cheap.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#16 » by Miklo » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:35 pm

What about Nash and either Warrick or Childress to the Hawks for Josh Smith and Bibby, plus picks if we could get em?

Not sure the Hawks would accept Nash/Chill as it would leave them thin inside. But either way, reuniting Nash and JoeJ would make the Hawks pretty nasty and competitive in the East and we'd have a great PF to rebuild around in JSmoove, as well as getting rid of a wing.
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#17 » by RaisingArizona » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:38 pm

Miklo wrote:What about Nash and either Warrick or Childress to the Hawks for Josh Smith and Bibby, plus picks if we could get em?

Not sure the Hawks would accept Nash/Chill as it would leave them thin inside. But either way, reuniting Nash and JoeJ would make the Hawks pretty nasty and competitive in the East and we'd have a great PF to rebuild around in JSmoove, as well as getting rid of a wing.


Like I said, I'd give anyone on this roster(besides the Dragon?) for Jsmooth
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#18 » by Miklo » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:44 pm

Oh and it can't be Chill I realized since he can't be sent to the Hawx..Duds or Warrick
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#19 » by Miklo » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:48 pm

How bout this idea:

Nash/Chill for Bosh/Chalmers/filler?

Miami: auto-championship x2

Us: get Bosh who we've always wanted, and Chalmers who IMO is a LEGIT PG given a chance...hopefully get a filler back too or a pick, although who wants pick #30
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Re: Nash Starting To Waiver? The Phoenix Dilemma 

Post#20 » by Cutter » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Nash trade speculation heating up.

"If the Suns/Magic deal goes through it will likely reignite speculation that Steve Nash could be traded."

http://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status ... 6720829440

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