Leafs aquire Vesa Toskala & Mark Bell

whysoserious · Post #21 » by **whysoserious** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:06 pm

I just heard that, I was not happy at first but I'll hold off judgement till all is said and done. I just don't like the fact that we gave up three picks. My feelings still go back to what Philly gave up to get Timonen and Hartnell.

Post #22 » by **MAS** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:08 pm

I tell you one thing about this trade that I like. It shows that JFJ isn't letting his ego getting in the way of doing what he thinks is right for the team. He isn't sticking with Raycroft just to show that he's right. That is more than i can say about another Toronto GM *cough* RICCARDI *cough*

totallyr · Post #23 » by **totallyr** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:09 pm

Terrble deal by a pathetic GM, i grew up a Leaf fan and saw them win their last cup as a kid. This franchise is a pathetic joke. A 30 year old goalie heading to UFA will be given a big contract and an under acheiving forward for a high pick that's needed on a non playoff team. Kind of explains why i stopped watching them after the lockout

newpollution32 · Post #24 » by **newpollution32** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:13 pm

This annoys me. SJ is going to draft Zach Hamill, or Lars Eller, or Backlund, all projected as great players. Stupid move. But the day isn't over. So maybe we can get a pick some how. But doubtful

Swift21 · Post #25 » by **Swift21** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:20 pm

MAS wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

More to the game than goals and assists. I watched him in the playoffs, I liked what he had to show. he's a decent 3rd liner and if he can get a little more offense he'll be perfect for this team

You mean you watched some of the games where Mark Bell was a healthy scratch in the playoffs. Bell is terrible, if he couldn't produce with Thornton or Marleau I find it hard to believe he can produce with anyone in Toronto.

newpollution32 · Post #26 » by **newpollution32** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:22 pm

Everyone just listen to the fan now, It's quite a show.

No radio around you?

http://myp2p.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8151

Post #27 » by **MAS** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:28 pm

Juice23 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You mean you watched some of the games where Mark Bell was a healthy scratch in the playoffs. Bell is terrible, if he couldn't produce with Thornton or Marleau I find it hard to believe he can produce with anyone in Toronto.

Change of scenery is good sometimes, especially after his DUI and hit and run allegations in San Jose.

I think he'll be fine

totallyr · Post #28 » by **totallyr** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:32 pm

MAS wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Change of scenery is good sometimes, especially after his DUI and hit and run allegations in San Jose.

I think he'll be fine

Alright a character guy to boot, it's just amazing what a 1rst round pick will get you

kelso · Post #29 » by **kelso** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:32 pm

Sounds like Toskala is pumped to come to Toronto- He's on the radio and from Finland, on a yaght having some pops talking to Chuck on the radio....he's stoked to come to the T-dot. He says Bell is a great team mate and more talented then he showed last year and he says he can handle as many games as the Leafs throw his way. he and his wife are really looking forward to coming here.

Post #30 » by **Crowned** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:45 pm

You guys are hilarious, you complain about the current goaltending situation all season, and how bad Raycroft is. Then, JFJ goes out and acquires a #1 goaltender and a capable 20 goal scorer for 2 draft choices in a weak draft. C'mon now...

Af #13, it's an absolute crapshoot, and there's zero guarantee that we're going to get a good NHL prospect there.

In my opinion, JFJ just pulled off a fantastic move. You guys realize that the Sharks wanted Toskala over Nabokov for the majority of last offseason, right?

whysoserious · Post #31 » by **whysoserious** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:49 pm

^^My issue is not getting a goaltender. I actually Toskala, but three picks for a goaltender and a player coming off a bad year when Philly gave up one for Timonen and Hartnell. That's the way I look at it. Why can't we be a forward thinking team that makes moves like that, this seems like another retread move to keep us just competitive enough.

We could very well be a playoff team next year just with this one move, but are we trying to just make the playoffs or win the whole thing? I think it's pretty clear the goal is to make the playoffs and hope for the best.

Post #32 » by **MAS** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:53 pm

vc_dunkchamp wrote:^^My issue is not getting a goaltender. I actually Toskala, but three picks for a goaltender and a player coming off a bad year when Philly gave up one for Timonen and Hartnell. That's the way I look at it. Why can't we be a forward thinking team that makes moves like that, this seems like another retread move to keep us just competitive enough.

We could very well be a playoff team next year just with this one move, but are we trying to just make the playoffs or win the whole thing? I think it's pretty clear the goal is to make the playoffs and hope for the best.

VC, if Timonen and Hartnell were under contract then they would not have gone for a single draft pick, Nashville was just trying to get something for them

whysoserious · Post #33 » by **whysoserious** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:00 pm

MAS wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

VC, if Timonen and Hartnell were under contract then they would not have gone for a single draft pick, Nashville was just trying to get something for them

I understand that, but Philly was able to swoop in and pull of a great deal. And I believe that is one way to get a young player without using the draft pick yourself. Three picks for two older guys seems too much. Not that it's a bad deal. It's still decent, but those are the kind of outside the box moves that are required right now for us if we don't want to go into full rebuild mode.

Post #34 » by **MAS** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:04 pm

well right now, despite the outrage from Leaf fans

Multiple GMs have been praising JFJ for doing this deal, and they weren't the only one's who were trying

Tor-Rap-Tor · Post #35 » by **Tor-Rap-Tor** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:09 pm

Crowned wrote:You guys are hilarious, you complain about the current goaltending situation all season, and how bad Raycroft is. Then, JFJ goes out and acquires a #1 goaltender and a capable 20 goal scorer for 2 draft choices in a weak draft. C'mon now...

Af #13, it's an absolute crapshoot, and there's zero guarantee that we're going to get a good NHL prospect there.

In my opinion, JFJ just pulled off a fantastic move. You guys realize that the Sharks wanted Toskala over Nabokov for the majority of last offseason, right?

Your right on the money...

I just love this deal, we now have a one two goal situation. Raycroft can back up Toskala and Bell is coming home to Ontario, this may perk up his game, playing in front of friends and family...

whysoserious · Post #36 » by **whysoserious** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:12 pm

Tor-Rap-Tor wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Your right on the money...

I just love this deal, we now have a one two goal situation. Raycroft can back up Toskala and Bell is coming home to Ontario, this may perk up his game, playing in front of friends and family...

Weren't people expecting that of O'Neill. Just coming home to Ontario is not enough. Again, not totally hating the deal, just we need more pure talent added to this team. Bell was once picked at eigth so we'll see.

Tor-Rap-Tor · Post #37 » by **Tor-Rap-Tor** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:19 pm

vc_dunkchamp wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Weren't people expecting that of O'Neill. Just coming home to Ontario is not enough. Again, not totally hating the deal, just we need more pure talent added to this team. Bell was once picked at eigth so we'll see.

Different situation O'Neill's Brother had died and he was coming home to be with his family and I don't think his heart was ever in playing again, he and his brother were very close and I still think he never got over it...

Post #38 » by **Crowned** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:22 pm

vc_dunkchamp wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Weren't people expecting that of O'Neill. Just coming home to Ontario is not enough. Again, not totally hating the deal, just we need more pure talent added to this team. Bell was once picked at eigth so we'll see.

Even though O'Neill was extremely inconsistent, he did manage to score 20 goals in both seasons with the Leafs. Not bad for giving up a 4th round pick in exchange...

whysoserious · Post #39 » by **whysoserious** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:30 pm

Crowned, your right, not bad. But people expect that player's just coming back to Ontario will suddenly play better than themselves. Bell is probably a 15 goal scorer, maybe 20 goals. And that's a stretch too.

I just think we need a major talent upgrade and we're making moves, but moves that aren't going to move us to where we need to get to. Like Toskala, are we going to be a top tier team in the next few year's - not likely with where we're at, so why add a goalie in his prime. Again, this is a move to get us to the playoffs, not to build a true championship team.

Are we better with this move? Yes, are we going in the direction needed? I don't believe so.

Post #40 » by **Crowned** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:40 pm

I do think Bell has a good opportunity here in Toronto, and will surprise people.

Mark Bell was acquired by the Sharks to play next to Thornton and Cheechoo. He's a big, physical player that isn't afraid to get dirty in the corners. Yes, he had a bad year in San Jose, so what? He has some legal problems, but is still only 26 years old and could turn his play around quickly, because he does have the talent.

Take a look at the Hawks/Sharks/Sens 3 way trade...

Sens trade: Martin Havlat, Bryan Smolinski
Sharks trade: Tom Preissing, Josh Hennessy
Hawks trade: Mark Bell, 2nd rounder, Michal Barinka

...the Hawks essentially acquired Havlat from the Sens, and gave up Bell in return. If he "sucked" so bad like everyone is saying, then why was he traded in exchange for a capable 40 goal scorer in the NHL? Mark Bell can very well score 25 goals for this hockey club next season. Scott Hartnell was recently signed for over 4 mil per season, and puts up similar goal totals, and plays a similar physical game, we have Bell for 2 mil per season, is that not maximizing value?

Vesa Toskala put up 26 wins in 38 games last season, he ended up with a 26-10-1 record with a 2.35 G.A.A last season on an offensive squad, and would've started more games if it wasn't for his injury concerns.

The Sharks wanted to deal Nabokov last season to accomodate Toskala, but was unable to. The only reason why Nabokov played in the playoffs was because he was hot, and again, Toskala was recovering from injuries. The year before, Toskala put up a 23-7-4 record in 37 games for the Sharks...he has proven himself.

Goaltenders win you hockey games, they win you playoff spots, and they win you playoff series'. A goaltender is the most important position in hockey, and I have no problem trading away whatever it takes to acquire a successful goaltender in this league. You don't win hockey games with marginal goaltending, take a look at the goaltenders that made the playoffs. Ask the Vancouver Canucks where they'd be without Luongo.

Trading away the #13 pick in this draft hurts, true. However, due to the strength of the draft, it's not an immediate concern considering what we recieved. Yes, we missed out on Zach Hamill, who's a good prospect, but still has holes and question marks in his game. The only way I'd be angry at the deal is if Esposito somehow slips to the #13 spot. There's no other prospect in that range that would change my mind about trading the pick for Bell and Toskala, not Backlund, not Couture, and not Lars Eller.