Leafs aquire Vesa Toskala & Mark Bell

[whysoserious]

You make some good points above and sort of ease some of my concerns. Like you, the one guy I was looking at was Espo and hoping even to move up to get him. Instead we could be completely out of the first round.

I still believe this is a sideways move to just get us in the playoffs and not really looking long-term at building a true championship caliber team.

[Raptorsrock]

LOL. This trade is horrible. JFJ is just keeping the treadmill to mediocrity going.

In the end he might give Rob Babcock a run for worst GM in the history of Toronto sports

[totallyr]

...the Hawks essentially acquired Havlat from the Sens, and gave up Bell in return. If he "sucked" so bad like everyone is saying, then why was he traded in exchange for a capable 40 goal scorer in the NHL? Mark Bell can very well score 25 goals for this hockey club next season. Scott Hartnell was recently signed for over 4 mil per season, and puts up similar goal totals, and plays a similar physical game, we have Bell for 2 mil per season, is that not maximizing value?

Hawks smart, Sens stupid. Since then Ottawa shipped him out and look whose laps he fell into. We got a 30 year old goalie to upgrade a mid 20 something goalie mistake from last year. I'm hearing Toskala has groin issues as well. Ferguson would f*ck up the Lords prayer if he knew the words

[totallyr]

LOL. This trade is horrible. JFJ is just keeping the treadmill to mediocrity going.

In the end he might give Rob Babcock a run for worst GM in the history of Toronto sports

Amen

[Tor-Rap-Tor]

Crowned, your right, not bad. But people expect that player's just coming back to Ontario will suddenly play better than themselves. Bell is probably a 15 goal scorer, maybe 20 goals. And that's a stretch too.
I just think we need a major talent upgrade and we're making moves, but moves that aren't going to move us to where we need to get to. Like Toskala, are we going to be a top tier team in the next few year's - not likely with where we're at, so why add a goalie in his prime. Again, this is a move to get us to the playoffs, not to build a true championship team.

Are we better with this move? Yes, are we going in the direction needed? I don't believe so.

Drafting 13th and 44th will probably not give you a Major talent upgrade, most of the teams that get big talent upgrades finish as the worse teams in the NHL for a number of years and pick 1 2 or 3, this is how you draft the Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin's of the world. Washington now looks great but for how many years did they really suck and would any Toronto fan stand for being last in the League for even 1 year...

[Crowned]

...the Hawks essentially acquired Havlat from the Sens, and gave up Bell in return. If he "sucked" so bad like everyone is saying, then why was he traded in exchange for a capable 40 goal scorer in the NHL? Mark Bell can very well score 25 goals for this hockey club next season. Scott Hartnell was recently signed for over 4 mil per season, and puts up similar goal totals, and plays a similar physical game, we have Bell for 2 mil per season, is that not maximizing value?

Hawks smart, Sens stupid. Since then Ottawa shipped him out and look whose laps he fell into. We got a 30 year old goalie to upgrade a mid 20 something goalie mistake from last year. I'm hearing Toskala has groin issues as well. Ferguson would f*ck up the Lords prayer if he knew the words

Hawks are smart? That's why they're drafting 1st overall and have an absolutely terrible team? The Sens are stupid? That's why they've got likely the most complete team in the NHL, and just came off a Stanley Cup appearance? They must be doing something right.

Yeah, we picked up a 30 year old goalie....your point? I'm willing to bet that if I go back and search through some of your posts, to go along with everyone else bashing this trade, I'll find atleast 1 post about Raycroft and how much "he sucks".

So, let's go pick up a 20 something year old starting goaltender from an NHL squad for the package the Leafs gave up. Are you aware of the price tag of starting goaltenders? What exactly do you expect the Leafs to do? What if Pogge doesn't pan out, who's your starting goaltender? Toskala's age is irrelevant, he'll be a starting goaltender for the next 5-6 years. He's never played a huge load of games in net, and the situation reminds me of Roloson, where he'll be able to start games into his late 30's because of it.

Question, have you been following the draft at all, or jump to conclusions that the Leafs just gave up a sure potential superstar in exchage for a starting goaltender and potential 25 goal scorer? Please enlighten us as to why JFJ lost the trade, other than the fact that he gave up a pick with a player with Matt Stajan type capabilities....or is it fun bashing JFJ with no merit?

[whysoserious]

-= original quote snipped =-



Drafting 13th and 40th will probably not give you a Major talent upgrade, most of the teams that get big talent upgrades finish as the worse teams in the NHL for a number of years and pick 1 2 or 3, this is how you draft the Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin's of the world. Washington now looks great but for how many years did they really suck and would any Toronto fan stand for being last in the League for even 1 year...

I'd rather they finish last for 3 or 4 year's than finishing 19th and out of the playoffs with no cap room and and no young prospects.

[totallyr]

First you talk about a trde between Havlat and Bell as the main components and i say the Hawks were smarter, then you talk about better team in general which is not about these players. Guess what you will find a post about how much Raycroft sucks, maybe more than 1, why because JFJ was an idiot then too. Also where did i say the Leafs gave up a potential superstar. Put words in your own mouth, not mine, As far as your vision of the future the so called "Matt Stajan capabilities" how do you even know who were picking to define the player. I will grant you this i'll agree on the Esposito call you made beyond my contempt so far

[Crowned]

First you talk about a trde between Havlat and Bell as the main components and i say the Hawks were smarter, then you talk about better team in general which is not about these players. Guess what you will find a post about how much Raycroft sucks, maybe more than 1, why because JFJ was an idiot then too. Also where did i say the Leafs gave up a potential superstar. Put words in your own mouth, not mine, As far as your vision of the future the so called "Matt Stajan capabilities" how do you even know who were picking to define the player. I will grant you this i'll agree on the Esposito call you made beyond my contempt so far

The Leafs were drafting #13 overall in a weak draft. Outside of Hamill, who exactly were the Leafs going to draft at that position? Gillies? No thanks, Backlund? Too many question marks. The draft is ideal for teams needing defenseman, and the Leafs don't. Please tell us who the Leafs should've drafted at #13, instead of acquiring a starting goaltender and a potential 25 goal scorer. If this draft was strong, and had the likes of Tlusty available to us (somewhat like last year), then that's a different story. However, there's way too many question marks surrounding this draft, and the Leafs just significantly improved the most important position in hockey.

How do I know who we're picking? It doesn't matter. The only player I really wanted at #13 is Hamill, and some of the defenseman available. The other players I had interest in (like Sweatt) would've been available later in the draft, that shows the strength of the draft.

How exactly is this trade "horrible"? Get past the whole rebuilding phase you're in, this draft wouldn't have significantly improved our prospect depth. Outside the top 10, you can get players all over the draft. Someone you believe you can get at spot #15, you'll likely be able to get at #23. Why not deal the pick away, the draft is too much of a crapshoot. You'll get a solid player, but that's not exactly ideal at #13, now is it?

Let's all bash JFJ, even though GM's around the league had stated that the Leafs recieved a good deal.

[totallyr]

Well it's obvious we will only agree to disagree, i label the Leafs like politics and religion, differences will always ensue. As we both have our opinions which we are both steadfast in maintaining i will leave it at that. You sir have a good day

[The-Insider]

Some interesting conditions are attached to the 1st round pick.

- San Jose has the option to let the Leafs keep their 1st rounder this year if they want and to take the Leafs' 1st rounder in 2008 instead
- if they do that, and the Leafs are drafting #10 or higher, the 1st rounder gets bumped another year to the 2009 draft
- at least some portion of the deal (or maybe the whole thing?) is still contingent on the Leafs signing Toskala to an extension.

[kelso]

I still like it. We shore up our net with a really good tender IMO and we get a young guy in Bell that has a lot of upside if he can get it together again. He was 2nd on team scoring in Chicago 2 years ago and led their team in PPgoals. He's not a scrub like some of you are painting him out to be- fact is, how many #8 picks are in our line up right now?

[Marmoset]

I think it's a good deal, but it's a bad deal.

It's a bad deal because this team badly needs to rebuild and get some good prospects. Instead, they've traded away two high picks. I don't care how 'weak' or 'strong' a draft is, a number of the guys selected around #13 will become very good NHL players.

But it's also a good deal, because the truth is that when the Leafs signed McCabe, Kubina, etc. they committed to trying to win now and couldn't get much for those guys if they wanted to. Toskala is a solid pickup for them, as there's no question Raycroft just isn't good enough. Bell is a wild card, he might regain his old form, or he might be Jonas Hoglund.

I still think this team should have and needs to rebuild, but if they're not going to, then this type of move is okay. We'll have to see what else happens over the next while.

[GQStylin]

Even though I don't like 1st round picks being traded, I like this move for the Leafs. I really like Vesa and think he can be the man to take the Leafs to the playoffs and maybe even to the Stanley Cup finals.

And if Mark Bell goes back to being the player he was in Chicago, that's a big plus. Overall, this trade looks much nicer than the last draft day trade of Raycroft for Rask.

[cb4_89]

LOL. This trade is horrible. JFJ is just keeping the treadmill to mediocrity going.

In the end he might give Rob Babcock a run for worst GM in the history of Toronto sports

Riciardi is locking that bad boy up.

[newpollution32]

FU...DGE! I cant believe this! We could have had Esposito and Cherpanov! Bravo JFJ! BRAVO!

[Amped]

Yikes...Esposito fell to the 20th pick...

[Tyler_Durden76]

OMG, he traded 13 when he could have Cherapanov or Esposito, all in all Toskala is a slight upgrade from Raycroft. If he is going to do a deal like this at least get Tomas Vokoun. Now the Leafs have 2 number 2 goalies with no one to play with Sundin and the farm cupboard is empty. If they have kept the pick I believe both Cherapanov or Esposito will make the big club immediately for such lack of depth this team has. The dagger goes further that there is another 1st rounder that is going to belong to SJ either for next year or 09.

Horrible, horrible, horrible. The leafs is a middle of the road team and will continue to be that way. The team I bet you will not get into the playoffs next season either and will not make it either in 09 and 2010. As long as JFJ is the GM, they aint going to go anywhere but middle of the road. JFJ is giving Rob Babcock a run for the worst GM in TO sports history.

[Crowned]

OMG, he traded 13 when he could have Cherapanov or Esposito, all in all Toskala is a slight upgrade from Raycroft. If he is going to do a deal like this at least get Tomas Vokoun. Now the Leafs have 2 number 2 goalies with no one to play with Sundin and the farm cupboard is empty. If they have kept the pick I believe both Cherapanov or Esposito will make the big club immediately for such lack of depth this team has. The dagger goes further that there is another 1st rounder that is going to belong to SJ either for next year or 09.

Horrible, horrible, horrible. The leafs is a middle of the road team and will continue to be that way. The team I bet you will not get into the playoffs next season either and will not make it either in 09 and 2010. As long as JFJ is the GM, they aint going to go anywhere but middle of the road. JFJ is giving Rob Babcock a run for the worst GM in TO sports history.

- He didn't trade the #13 when he could've had either one. Can he somehow predict the future and see that Cherepanov was going to drop that far?

- Toskala isn't a #2 goalie in this league

- Vokoun will be making between 5-6 mil per season, on a long term contract.

- The Leafs don't owe San Jose another first round pick. They dealt #13 to them.

- If Cherepanov and Esposito were selected, people would still be praising the deal. Yet, it's JFJ's fault that half the teams in the draft passed on them. If the majority of the teams passed on them both, what makes you believe that JFJ would've selected either of them? Assumptions are deadly.

[The-Insider]

There's a reason why 19 teams passed on Espisito. Cherapanov is a different story. The manager's aren't as shocked as the viewers.

I'd agree that it would be pretty pathetic that JFJ would look down on this deal a few hours after he pulled the trigger. I doubt that's the case though. He probably had a rough idea prior to what's going to be available at 13 and decided to go with Tosklola and Bell instead. We'll see if Fergie played his cards right on this one

I don't feel the Leafs are as bad as they appear to be. Good goaltending is what it's all about, and the Leafs finally have it. Both goalies are also a combined 4 mill.

A lot of people are going to discover next season, that the Leafs with Toskala, are closer to being a contender then they realize. ( and no, I'm not saying "start planning the parade". )