Leafs aquire Vesa Toskala & Mark Bell

[Crowned]

There's a reason why 19 teams passed on Espisito. Cherapanov is a different story. The manager's aren't as shocked as the viewers.

I'd agree that it would be pretty pathetic that JFJ would look down on this deal a few hours after he pulled the trigger. I doubt that's the case though. He probably had a rough idea prior to what's going to be available at 13 and decided to go with Tosklola and Bell instead. We'll see if Fergie played his cards right on this one

I don't feel the Leafs are as bad as they appear to be. Good goaltending is what it's all about, and the Leafs finally have it. Both goalies are also a combined 4 mill.

A lot of people are going to discover next season, that the Leafs with Toskala, are closer to being a contender then they realize. ( and no, I'm not saying "start planning the parade". )

The Leafs aren't a bad team, they would've made the playoffs last year if it wasn't for the injuries to key players (Kaberle, Wellwood, Peca, Tucker, etc). With a healthy lineup, a few additional players via free agency (assuming they free up some cap space) and now good goaltending, we're in good shape heading into the season.

If the Leafs don't get rid of Raycroft, I'll be excited about our goaltending situation. Raycroft didn't have anybody to push him last season since Maurice completely lost interest and confidence in Aubin. Now with Toskala, he'll have to completely step up his game, and that's the most intriguing part of this deal. Raycroft has the talent in him to be a good starting goaltender in this league, let's see if he can utalize that talent now that he'll have no choice.

[GQStylin]

There's a reason why 19 teams passed on Espisito. Cherapanov is a different story. The manager's aren't as shocked as the viewers.

I'd agree that it would be pretty pathetic that JFJ would look down on this deal a few hours after he pulled the trigger. I doubt that's the case though. He probably had a rough idea prior to what's going to be available at 13 and decided to go with Tosklola and Bell instead. We'll see if Fergie played his cards right on this one

I don't feel the Leafs are as bad as they appear to be. Good goaltending is what it's all about, and the Leafs finally have it. Both goalies are also a combined 4 mill.

A lot of people are going to discover next season, that the Leafs with Toskala, are closer to being a contender then they realize. ( and no, I'm not saying "start planning the parade". )

I like this deal to bring Vesa here. I really think he can help the Leafs get into the playoffs. As for going far in the playoffs well I'm not sure about that unless the Leafs add a few more pieces.

What I wished JFJ would do is get a pick and try for a Cherapanov when he was still around in the middle of the draft. I mean didn't San Jose have no picks in the first round, yet they somehow ended making deals for two picks? Why couldn't the Leafs have made a deal and went for Alexei? Its a risk, but I think it would have been worth it to get him if he's as talented as hockey analysts project him to be.

[Cyrus]

Not bad deal, trading picks in a bad draft.

But this is type of deal you do, when you have confidence, that your "core", your team can get in the playoffs and make a run.

IE. if your like Ottawa last year, and think your only problem is Goalie, and go out and get a goalie.

The LEAFS have many problems, and need many parts, Sure goalie is one of them, but it's not all of them. Does this make them better, sure, but no better than the position they'll be battling for with or without this deal, unless there are more deals/signings to come.

Why I don't like this deal, 1) The could have signed Vesska in what a year? He'd have been a free agent, we'd have to paid nothing but Dollars to get him (Not assests ie. first rounders even in a weak year). 2) He's already 30, i'm not denying he's a good goalie, cause he is, but after a year or two when sundin moves on, who steps up? Do we have anyone down the road? How does teams like NJ or Det, who are successful playoff teams yearly, picking in the 20 or later, have these young upcoming players, and The Leafs don't? well one of the reasons is, cause there making moves for now, for the moment, rather than moves that have a 3 year plan to them.

[Cyrus]

Not bad deal, trading picks in a bad draft.

But this is type of deal you do, when you have confidence, that your "core", your team can get in the playoffs and make a run.

IE. if your like Ottawa last year, and think your only problem is Goalie, and go out and get a goalie.

The LEAFS have many problems, and need many parts, Sure goalie is one of them, but it's not all of them. Does this make them better, sure, but no better than the position they'll be battling for with or without this deal, unless there are more deals/signings to come.

Why I don't like this deal, 1) The could have signed Vesska in what a year? He'd have been a free agent, we'd have to paid nothing but Dollars to get him (Not assests ie. first rounders even in a weak year). 2) He's already 30, i'm not denying he's a good goalie, cause he is, but after a year or two when sundin moves on, who steps up? Do we have anyone down the road? How does teams like NJ or Det, who are successful playoff teams yearly, picking in the 20 or later, have these young upcoming players, and The Leafs don't? well one of the reasons is, cause there making moves for now, for the moment, rather than moves that have a 3 year plan to them.

[AccGuard77]

the Leafs are an absolute laughing-stock. i like Toskala over Raycroft. but i also like about 40 other goalies over Raycroft. the real screw-up was trading Rask for Raycroft in the first place.

a GM with a plan would have signed a low-cost free agent goalie last year (Legace, Joseph, etc) and waited for Pogge and/or Rask to develop. the option of trading for a top 3 pick this year would have been there with moving Pogge or Rask, the 13th pick and a combination of one of the surplus young defencemen (Coliacovo, Kronwall, etc). or, keep the pick and start adding some depth.

JFJ has now traded away the 1st and 2nd pick in 3 out of his 4 years. there are no solid offensive prospects outside of Tlusty and Kulemin and will add nothing to that list in this year's draft. 2002 is a good example of what can happen when you hold on to your draft picks (Steen, Stajan, White, Immonen (eventually traded in the Leetch deal), Kronwall). On the other hand, watch how many Leaf picks make the NHL from the drafts from 2003-2005 when trading the top 2 picks seemed to be the flavour of the day. And I can already promise that 2007 will not yield one significant future Leaf.

this team has too much $$$ tied up in mediocre defencemen (McCabe, Kubina), a best player who is closer to retirement than his prime (Sundin), a bad back-up goalie making over $2 million (Raycroft), no front line wingers, and a bunch of 3rd line young guys of varrying degrees of potential (Steen, Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Antropov).

the future hasn't been this bleak in years...

[totallyr]

-= original quote snipped =-



Change of scenery is good sometimes, especially after his DUI and hit and run allegations in San Jose.

I think he'll be fine

Alright a character guy to boot, it's just amazing what a 1rst round pick will get you

[whysoserious]

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/228707

Cox wrote a great piece today about how this organization is basically running on impulse and not being decisive enough on Ferguson or bringing in whoever, they look like a chicken running around with it's head cut off.

They can't decide what they want to do. All we've heard from Ferguson is that Raycroft is a number one, and won 37 games and all he's ever said is that we need to start using our own picks and improve the organizational depth and then pulls off this move.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I can't believe we could have gotten a nice young prosepect like Esposito or Cheraponov to add to Tlusty. They better pray he works out along with Bell.

The trade may workout short-term, but this team is still a cap-strapped team that really is not that good with not many young guys coming in to add something and is still a borderline playoff team maybe seeded somewhere in the 6-8 slot.

I look at Philadelphia, sure they had a fluke injury season, but they already had some nice young players and in being so bad and being decisive and moving Forsberg and some forward-thinking moves, they will be a borderline playoff team but with a brighter looking future while we continue to be a treadmill team.

[Santoki]

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More to the game than goals and assists. I watched him in the playoffs, I liked what he had to show. he's a decent 3rd liner and if he can get a little more offense he'll be perfect for this team

You liked the 4 pointless games he had...or the 8 or so he spent in street clothes?

[Santoki]

I find it amusing when people say it's a "weak" draft because you hear the so-called "experts" tell you that. NO ONE has any idea if any of these guys are going to be great or even serviceable players in the NHL. However, most drafts regardless of their "strength" produce many good NHL players. So I throw the whole "this deal is good because it's a weak draft" argument out the window at look at it for what it is: fixing a leaky faucet.

The Leafs will compete for a playoff position next season. The "experts" will put them around 7-10th in the Eastern Conference. They will win games and look great, and lose games and look terrible. Will they be better with Toskala? I don't think anybody really knows at this point. Is Mark Bell, who scored 11 goals last year, projected to be a 25 goal scorer? That I can tell you is not projected. Will it happen? Probably not. The point is we could be getting the next Mikka Kiprusoff, or we could very well be getting the next Martin Gerber. You guys remember him, he won 40 games with Carolina two seasons ago.

The one thing that is clear about this deal is that the Leafs are trying to make the playoffs and hoping that the clock doesn't strike midnight on them. That's it! That's the masterplan! There is no 3 year plan, no long-term vision. It's not there. We can speculate all we want about what they could have done/traded but it all doesn't matter because we aren't the GM. But what does matter is that this is the final piece of evidence that this team will stew in mediocrity for at least the next 5-7 years. But as long as we make the playoffs, the clowns (the fans) are happy.

I just wish I wasn't so loyal, so I could cheer on a franchise that doesn't manipulate and take advantage of its fan base.

[Crowned]

I find it amusing when people say it's a "weak" draft because you hear the so-called "experts" tell you that. NO ONE has any idea if any of these guys are going to be great or even serviceable players in the NHL. However, most drafts regardless of their "strength" produce many good NHL players. So I throw the whole "this deal is good because it's a weak draft" argument out the window at look at it for what it is: fixing a leaky faucet.

The Leafs will compete for a playoff position next season. The "experts" will put them around 7-10th in the Eastern Conference. They will win games and look great, and lose games and look terrible. Will they be better with Toskala? I don't think anybody really knows at this point. Is Mark Bell, who scored 11 goals last year, projected to be a 25 goal scorer? That I can tell you is not projected. Will it happen? Probably not. The point is we could be getting the next Mikka Kiprusoff, or we could very well be getting the next Martin Gerber. You guys remember him, he won 40 games with Carolina two seasons ago.

The one thing that is clear about this deal is that the Leafs are trying to make the playoffs and hoping that the clock doesn't strike midnight on them. That's it! That's the masterplan! There is no 3 year plan, no long-term vision. It's not there. We can speculate all we want about what they could have done/traded but it all doesn't matter because we aren't the GM. But what does matter is that this is the final piece of evidence that this team will stew in mediocrity for at least the next 5-7 years. But as long as we make the playoffs, the clowns (the fans) are happy.

I just wish I wasn't so loyal, so I could cheer on a franchise that doesn't manipulate and take advantage of its fan base.

It is a weak draft, if you do the research, know the players and what they're capable of...you can come to that conclusion rather easy. If you want a serviceable player ala Matt Stajan, then sure, you'll get it. I've played against several of these players, have you? Didn't think so.

I'd much rather take Vesa Toskala and Mark Bell (a former #8 pick in his own right) over Lars Eller any day of the week. If you look at the youth the Leafs currently possess, it's not like we're in absolute need of prospects because we have a bare cupboard. The Leafs have some intriuging players, and their pool of youth is overly underrated.

Let's take a look at the first round...

Zach Hamill at #8
Alex Plante
Colton Gillies
Thomas Hickey
Ian Cole
Riley Nash
Patrick White
Nick Ross
James O'Brien
Keaton Ellerby @ #10
Brandon Sutter @ #11


...is that a strong group of prospects?

Personally, the 2nd round had more intriuging prospects than many of the above names. I'll take guys like Billy Sweatt, Stefan Legein, Michal Repik, Colby Cohen, Akim Aliu over several of the players listed in the first round. What does that say about the strength of the first round? Not a whole lot to be honest. If Cherepanov or Esposito don't fall, nobody would be complaining.

[Contract Season]

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Hockey ... 8-sun.html

Simmons' take on the trade.
I mostly agree with him, but if JFJ traded for Malkin, he would probably find a way to rip him.

[mr.garbage]

I think this is a good deal. Although we picked up not a young goalie, we picked up one that is enough of a boost to put us in the playoffs. Mark Bell isn't as bad as you ppl think he is. He brings his phyiscal game , which is something we need.
I am not 100% confident but enough to say 2008 playoffs, the Leafs are back.

- Aubin gone.
- Raycroft backup.
- Toskala Starter.
- Mark Bell on the 3rd or 4th line.

[Crowned]

I think this is a good deal. Although we picked up not a young goalie, we picked up one that is enough of a boost to put us in the playoffs. Mark Bell isn't as bad as you ppl think he is. He brings his phyiscal game , which is something we need.
I am not 100% confident but enough to say 2008 playoffs, the Leafs are back.

- Aubin gone.
- Raycroft backup.
- Toskala Starter.
- Mark Bell on the 3rd or 4th line.

To be honest, I think he'll be playing next to Wellwood or Sundin on one of the top 2 lines.

[The Duke]

Leafs management dont understand ... you have to build ur team thru the draft, one way or another .... u will never put together a winnig team by trading ur picks for 'the best thats available' .. cuz usually another team is trying to rid themself of that talent ......

Pluggin holes is ok, when ur close to the top ... when ur at the bottom and the whole ship is going... u need to rebuild it, even if it takes some time in the shop

[The-Insider]

I think Mark Bell will slot in nicely into the third left-wing spot at the start of the season, with the potential to climb if his play warrants it.

With Darcy Tucker and Alexei Ponikarovsky our number one and two wingers on the left side, this allows us to bump Chad Kilger down to the fourth slot, while giving us some much needed depth on that end.

fwiw - Bell had 9 fighting majors this year, and accordning to Hockeyfights.com, he won 3 of them.

[kelso]

That Hockeyfights.con site is awesome. I love the recaps they give of the fights.

I think Bell is being overlooked completely in this trade and he'll surprise a lot of people this year. Its not like the guy hasn't shown well in the NHL to this point in his career- he had one bad season (last year) and it could be as simple as not fitting in what was going on in San Jose, plus he had some off ice issues he had to deal with. He gets s fresh new start in a hockey market and I think he's going to do well.

[Santoki]

I think this is a good deal. Although we picked up not a young goalie, we picked up one that is enough of a boost to put us in the playoffs. Mark Bell isn't as bad as you ppl think he is. He brings his phyiscal game , which is something we need.
I am not 100% confident but enough to say 2008 playoffs, the Leafs are back.

- Aubin gone.
- Raycroft backup.
- Toskala Starter.
- Mark Bell on the 3rd or 4th line.

Even if the Leafs make the playoffs...who cares?! They aren't going anywhere! All you morons make me sick to my stomach. Don't you understand the point of playing is not to make the playoffs. It's to win the Stanley Cup. These idiots at MLSE have been feeding you all this garbage for so long you think getting into the playoffs is a successful season.

Well go enjoy you're 8th place finish, if that, and the beating you will take in the playoffs. I'm going to spend my energy on a team that understands what it takes to build a winner. Go Raps!

P.S. I know the Raptors are run by MLSE but at least they put someone competent in charge of the team.

[kelso]

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Even if the Leafs make the playoffs...who cares?! They aren't going anywhere! All you morons make me sick to my stomach. Don't you understand the point of playing is not to make the playoffs. It's to win the Stanley Cup. These idiots at MLSE have been feeding you all this garbage for so long you think getting into the playoffs is a successful season.

Well go enjoy you're 8th place finish, if that, and the beating you will take in the playoffs. I'm going to spend my energy on a team that understands what it takes to build a winner. Go Raps!

P.S. I know the Raptors are run by MLSE but at least they put someone competent in charge of the team.

Do you feel better now?

[Santoki]

I'll feel better when I get the feeling the general population of Leafs fans are complete morons. But that will never happen...so no I don't feel better. I grew up the biggest Leaf fan in the world, but in recent years this organization has tested even my loyalty. They don't deserve it anymore.

[kelso]

Its sports and its a business. You don't think everyone around here wants them to do it right? Sure people do.