Did Orlando just get alot worst?

Harry10 · Post #1 » by **Harry10** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:45 pm

the biggest weakness in Dwight's game is his fouls, but the Magic have been able to hide that, because of Gortat. but now Dwight's biggest weakness, becomes the Magic's biggest weakness.

i think the Magic got alot worst. i love the trades for the Hawks. Get Dwight in foul trouble and Horford and Josh will be able to feast on Bass and Orton. Before Carter, Joe was able to dominate Turkoglu and when Richardson was a Bobcat, Joe was able to big numbers against Charlotte.

ATL DirtyBird · Post #2 » by **ATL DirtyBird** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:05 pm

I dont know what to think of the trade right now. Its a boom or bust trade. I expect good returns from the new guys.

theatlfan · Post #3 » by **theatlfan** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:07 pm

Looking @ team stats, ORL is top 5 in D but bottom 10 in O. It was a knee jerk reaction, but they didn't really give up a lot either.

Can we take advantage? I dunno. I don't disagree with the fact that it seems more like they're reshuffling the deck as opposed to doing anything particularly meaningful, but they've destroyed us last season and we're really just chipping away at their lead. JJ may have been able to get some looks against them elsewhere, but having Dwight back there to cover your mistakes for 3 Q a game makes a defender look much better. Even if we get him in foul trouble, he'll still be out there for 2+ Q.

The biggest surprise to me is how little Gortat was able to command. Considering that PHX was dumping Turkoglu's contract for almost sheer expirings, I wouldn't have thought that Gortat would have needed to be included in the trade or at least that they could get back Lopez instead of Clark. Surprising...

HoopsGuru25 · Post #4 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:48 pm

I think Orlando finally realized that depth gets alot less important once the playoffs start. It's not like the world will end if they have to play Bass at center with the 2nd team instead of Gortat.

Harry10 · Post #5 » by **Harry10** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:45 am

Magic looked alot worst on defense and i don't think it is chemistry thing, because no matter how much chemistry they get, Turk is not going to get better, Bass is not going to get better, and Arenas is not going to get better.

once Turk, Arenas, and JRich get it clicking on offense, they are still going to have a hard time when everybody goes iso on Turk and Arenas.

evildallas · Post #6 » by **evildallas** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:56 am

Too early to judge but if they just changed to a new set of jumpshooters then I think the loss of depth at C will result in a weaker lineup. The thing is they realized they weren't going far as is and took a shot at shaking it up. If it doesn't work out I'm not sure if they'll find any takers for Gilbert or Hedo.

azuresou1 · Post #7 » by **azuresou1** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:20 pm

I think the Magic just armed up heavily and that they're much, much better. That team is stacked offensively.

MaceCase · Post #8 » by **MaceCase** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:17 pm

azuresou1 wrote:I think the Magic just armed up heavily and that they're much, much better. That team is stacked offensively.

There's only one ball and before I read the Miami comparison, Hedo and Gil are nowhere near the facilitators, rebounders, or defenders that Wade and Bron are...they're not even as good at shooting or scoring the ball. They are just two guys that benefit from having the ball in their hands and the freedom to take shots whenever they see appropriate. They are guys that don't affect the game in any other way.
JRich is a player that thrives next to a premier facilitator which he did in Phoenix and now they are expecting him to have the same success playing next to guys that are more concerned with their own shots than passing. This speaks nothing of having to rely on Malik Allen for 13 minutes a night........yikes.
There are just too many parts and egos not to mention a short amount of time with a coach who doesn't do well under pressure for them to get this really right.
They honestly would of been better off with just one part of the trade to either of Phoenix or Washington. As is they need to move Jameer to solidify their depth, the Hedo they want actually thrived when Jameer was out during their title run, the Gil they want was a superstar when he had the ball in his hands, the JRich they want needs someone generally concerned with utilizing his massive off the ball skills. Jury is still out on their team but for now my vote is this move reminds me of the Iverson to Detroit deal--- may pay dividends having that scorer that can take over on a great defensive club or it might sink the season and the playoffs.

azuresou1 · Post #9 » by **azuresou1** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:36 pm

Gilbert Arenas is being massively underrated here... as overpaid as he is, he's still a better offensive player than Joe Johnson, and a guy who can play off the ball just fine. J-Rich is getting up there in years but he can still explode for 30 points any given night, and is excellent off ball. Hedo is a overpaid scrub, but TBQH he's an average or above-average NBA starter.

I would put good money that Orlando finishes as top seed in the East and makes the Finals.

evildallas · Post #10 » by **evildallas** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:39 pm

Old Gilbert was as good as you say, but he's had a couple of knee injuries since he was that dominant. I'm not saying he's totally shot, but he wasn't playing like a top flight star when he got suspended for stupidity.

I agree that the magic got more talent in the deal but I don't see how they fit together.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #11 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:58 am

he's still a better offensive player than Joe Johnson, and a guy who can play off the ball just fine.

Not even close. Arenas is at the post Nuggets Iverson stage of his career.

betta1 · Post #12 » by **betta1** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:35 am

HoopsGuru25 wrote:
he's still a better offensive player than Joe Johnson, and a guy who can play off the ball just fine.

Not even close. Arenas is at the post Nuggets Iverson stage of his career.

JJ = 29 years old

Arenas = 28 years old

HoopsGuru25 · Post #13 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:17 am

And Tracy Mcgrady is a year younger than Kobe Bryant....what does that have to do with the point I'm making?

ray ray · Post #14 » by **ray ray** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:51 pm

If we are going by talent wise, yes the Magic got the best players in those deals. However, defensively they got worse because as much as JRichardson was on fire the last couple of months, he usually allowed his man to burn the Suns. Hedo, well I'm glad that we got rid of him. I like JRich and all but the Suns and Nash simplify the game for him. Once they did that, he went on a tear. Why am I saying this? JRich has a low bb iq. Seeing all the bone head plays he did while he was a Sun.Also, when he had an off night, he was virtually worthless. He's a very good athlete, good shooter and at times, very clutch. But when your scoring 40 points a game and you are allowing the opposing guard to score 27 when hes usually averges15 ppg. It kind of cancels his great performances.

azuresou1 · Post #15 » by **azuresou1** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:10 pm

HoopsGuru25 wrote:And Tracy Mcgrady is a year younger than Kobe Bryant....what does that have to do with the point I'm making?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 02&y2=2011

Gilbert scores more on better efficiency (although both are bad) and is a better passer who admittedly turns the ball over more. He is a better shooter and slasher, and his offensive game is better across the board except in the post.

Let's not pretend that Joe Johnson is a top flight star either.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #16 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:55 pm

Both have been terrible through the 1st 20 or so games this year...but Arenas has been terrible for over 3 years now while Joe is battling an elbow issue. All you have to do is see Arenas massive decline in free throw attempts and shots around the basket area to realize that he's washed up.

azuresou1 · Post #17 » by **azuresou1** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:33 am

Arenas the last 3 years has posted between 18 and 19 PER.
Joe the last 3 years has posted between 17 and 19 PER.

You can also apply the eye test in which Arenas has played better than Joe this year.

In any case, you realize we're talking about a guy who posts similar production coming off the bench for Orlando, which can afford to take on a one-dimensional player?

HoopsGuru25 · Post #18 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:55 am

Again....for some reason you continue to use small sample sizes while ignoring that this terrible stretch by Arenas is almost a third of his games post knee surgery while it's less than 10 percent of Joe's games in the same time period.

parson · Post #19 » by **parson** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:44 am

This smacks of desperation on the part of the Magic, maybe Bucher's rumors that Howard is looking to move to LA have some element of truth in them.

Still, I think the team makes a lot more sense than it did before. Now they have a traditional C, a traditional PF (in Bass) a traditional SG (Richardson), a traditional PG and a microwave-type in Arenas.

Turkoglu allows them to play as they did with Rashard Lewis, when they want to.

But, next year, if they don't re-sign Richardson and Arenas doesn't improve....

Harry10 · Post #20 » by **Harry10** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:45 am

azuresou1 wrote:Arenas the last 3 years has posted between 18 and 19 PER.
Joe the last 3 years has posted between 17 and 19 PER.

You can also apply the eye test in which Arenas has played better than Joe this year.

In any case, you realize we're talking about a guy who posts similar production coming off the bench for Orlando, which can afford to take on a one-dimensional player?

the stats you have for Gilbert the last 3 years are weak to use in an argument. but i'll pretend that they are legit facts......... Joe's 19PER = Gilbert's 19PER........ Joe still plays better defense.