Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[Hoopalotta]

I'm of that position as well, though I couldn't help posting a semi-realistic 'save $25 million' trade just for novelty's sake.

I like reading this from our guy Shart:

"It's most definitely different, especially after being fresh off the Orlando offense, it was just a couple days ago, and now I gotta put that on the backburner and remember everything," Lewis said. "I'm a guy that likes to know all the positions, from the one through the five even though I'm going to be playing the three and four. I like to know where everybody's at and what position. It'll take a little time just to learn everything."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... first.html

He might not be an inspiring emotional firebrand, but we could definitely use some of that going around and it sounds like Flip want's to see him at small forward. So long as he doesn't go 'lost season[al] affective disorder' on us, he'll be a respectable cultural guy who fits the system from an X-O standpoint. And I'm encouraged to hear Flip talking about using him at the small forward considering we have no prospects there.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

I'm of that position as well, though I couldn't help posting a semi-realistic 'save $25 million' trade just for novelty's sake.

I like reading this from our guy Shart:

"It's most definitely different, especially after being fresh off the Orlando offense, it was just a couple days ago, and now I gotta put that on the backburner and remember everything," Lewis said. "I'm a guy that likes to know all the positions, from the one through the five even though I'm going to be playing the three and four. I like to know where everybody's at and what position. It'll take a little time just to learn everything."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... first.html

He might not be an inspiring emotional firebrand, but we could definitely use some of that going around and it sounds like Flip want's to see him at small forward. So long as he doesn't go 'lost season[al] affective disorder' on us, he'll be a respectable cultural guy who fits the system from an X-O standpoint. And I'm encouraged to hear Flip talking about using him at the small forward considering we have no prospects there.

Agreed. I think a Shart/Howard split at the three would not only be passable, but actually good. The flexibility to move Ra-shart to the four and Blatche to the 5 situationally depending on match ups and game situations means that we have some lineup flexibility that a good coach could really exploit to our advantage.

Question is, of course, will Flop really piece it all together.

Wall/N1/Howard or Lewis/Blatche/McGee

with

K-honey/N1/Howard/Lewis/Blatche in crunch time, especially on offensive possessions...

could win some ball games.

That crunch time lineup has 5 guys who can step out and hit a jumper and three guys who can post. Whichever player among Lewis, Howard and Blatche has the smallest, weakest defender on him can play in the block in an iso set.

[nate33]

Assuming the same basic cap level we have today, we are on pace to have somewhere around $3-5M in cap room in 2011, and $14-22M in cap room in 2012 (assuming Young is signed to a $5M per year deal). It looks like any major 2011 free agency plans are history, but a 2012 free agent acquisition is a very likely possibility. With that the case, I think it makes sense to explore BOYD type deals where we give up expiring contracts (Yi, Thornton, maybe Howard if the return is good) in exchange for 2012 contracts plus a pick.

The ideal scenario is to find a team with luxtax issues next year and an expendable 2012 contract.

I'll go first:
Washington trades: Yi + Thornton
Philly trades: Nocioni + future lotto protected 1st.

Here's another:
Washington trades: Yi
Golden State trades: Charlie Bell + lotto protected 1st

Here's a longshot:
Washington trades: Yi
San Antonio trades: McDyess
I don't think we get a pick in this one. It might make sense for San Antonio if Splitter and Blair really have it going by the Trade Deadline. It might make sense for us to have one grizzled veteran big for next season.

[mhd]

Assuming the same basic cap level we have today, we are on pace to have somewhere around $3-5M in cap room in 2011, and $14-22M in cap room in 2012 (assuming Young is signed to a $5M per year deal). It looks like any major 2011 free agency plans are history, but a 2012 free agent acquisition is a very likely possibility. With that the case, I think it makes sense to explore BOYD type deals where we give up expiring contracts (Yi, Thornton, maybe Howard if the return is good) in exchange for 2012 contracts plus a pick.

The ideal scenario is to find a team with luxtax issues next year and an expendable 2012 contract.

I'll go first:
Washington trades: Yi + Thornton
Philly trades: Nocioni + future lotto protected 1st.

Here's another:
Washington trades: Yi
Golden State trades: Charlie Bell + lotto protected 1st

Here's a longshot:
Washington trades: Yi
San Antonio trades: McDyess
I don't think we get a pick in this one. It might make sense for San Antonio if Splitter and Blair really have it going by the Trade Deadline. It might make sense for us to have one grizzled veteran big for next season.

I was thinking the same thing Nate. The ideal guy to make a run at the 8th spot is Camby. Only way a deal works would be Yi+Thorton+Howard, where Blazers cut Howard and he resigns here OR Yi+Thorton+Martin+Armstrong+Hudson+Ndayie

[nate33]

I'm not sure I like that idea, mhd. My goal isn't to signficantly improve the team this year and next year. My goal is to acquire a pick or prospect that we could use as a building block going forward. It would be nice if the deadweight contract we get in return is actually a serviceable NBA player who could serve as a vet mentor - but I'm not looking for a high quality starter like Camby.

I figure we'd be outbid for Camby anyhow. A contender will probably trade expirings plus a pick for him.

[mhd]

I'm not sure I like that idea, mhd. My goal isn't to signficantly improve the team this year and next year. My goal is to acquire a pick or prospect that we could use as a building block going forward. It would be nice if the deadweight contract we get in return is actually a serviceable NBA player who could serve as a vet mentor - but I'm not looking for a high quality starter like Camby.

I figure we'd be outbid for Camby anyhow. A contender will probably trade expirings plus a pick for him.

Yeah, you are right Nate. What about Yi+Thorton for Barbosa? Raps are at 45 million now. Assuming they don't offer the qualifying offer to Julian Wright and Joey Dorsey, they would be at 40 million in salary committed for next year. Moving Barbosa cuts them down to 33 million.


Barbosa becomes the backup SG and sparkplug off the bench.

[penbeast0]

You missed the part where we are supposed to get young talent/picks out of the deal MHD. Not just to acquire a good vet that will move us toward mediocrity -- we don't want short term help unless there is long term help involved too.

[mhd]

You missed the part where we are supposed to get young talent/picks out of the deal MHD. Not just to acquire a good vet that will move us toward mediocrity -- we don't want short term help unless there is long term help involved too.

Well, I posted a Barbosa+Miami 1st for Yi+Thorton deal on the Raps board. Most would do the deal sans the pick. I wonder why that Miami 1st is so important to them. I will likely be in the 24-30 range anyways, prime territory for buying a pick.

[LyricalRico]

I like the deal for Barbosa, and if we're in the thick of the chase for the 8th seed at the deadline I'd probably do it even without the pick.

What about expirings for Bibby+pick? I'm assuming we'd buy him out so he could go back to Atlanta. They might be looking for relief since Horford's extension kicks in next season. This would also allow them to turn the team over the Teague next season.

Another, albeit less sexy idea, is expirings for Najera+Henderson. This hinges completely on how high Henderson is still rated as a prospect. He could also be a decent handcuff in case the Nick Young bidding gets out of control (you never know).

[mhd]

I like the deal for Barbosa, and if we're in the thick of the chase for the 8th seed at the deadline I'd probably do it even without the pick.

What about expirings for Bibby+pick? I'm assuming we'd buy him out so he could go back to Atlanta. They might be looking for relief since Horford's extension kicks in next season. This would also allow them to turn the team over the Teague next season.

Another, albeit less sexy idea, is expirings for Najera+Henderson. This hinges completely on how high Henderson is still rated as a prospect. He could also be a decent handcuff in case the Nick Young bidding gets out of control (you never know).

Henderson sucks. He has no arc to his jumpshot. I'd rather have Cartier Martin get PT vs. Henderson.

With the Wiz having full matching rights to N1, and the fact that very few teams have cap space this year, the fact that EG said trading Arenas was partially done to free more PT for N1, I think he'll be signed longterm here.

Honestly, N1 is the ideal SG to pair next to Wall.

[rockymac52]

Hypothetical: We never did the Dallas trade last year and still had Butler, Stevenson, and Haywood. The rest of our team is still the same as it is right now though (I guess no Josh Howard to be fair). Our record is just as bad as it is right now. Melo is being shopped around the league. There are rumors of Dallas pursuing a Melo trade. The rumored trade? Melo for Butler, Stevenson, Beaubois and maybe a draft pick or two.

If we still had Butler and Stevenson, we obviously have most of the makings of that trade. We aren't going to give up our draft pick because our record is so bad that the pick is much more valuable than Dallas', but maybe we throw in a second round or something of equal value. The only thing missing is Rodrigue Beaubois, the young talent. Butler and Stevenson are the filler - the expiring contracts.

So the next question is, do the Wizards have a young talented prospect of equal or similar value to Beaubois? I suppose this is up for debate, but in a general sense, I say yes. Wall would obviously qualify, but the Wizards aren't trading Wall here. The other guys who merit consideration: Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee. I'm not sure how similar their salaries are to Beaubois' or if the proposed deal works out perfectly under the CBA, but let's pretend Blatche or McGee could be substituted for Beaubois' contract in this trade.

Beaubois has a lot of hype surrounding him, even though he has yet to dominate - at all. I'm personally a fan of his potential, but you be the judge. Here's the on paper comparisons:

22 years old
6'0"
170 lbs
In 12.5 minutes per game last season (he's hurt and hasn't played yet this season) he averaged:
7.1 PPG
1.3 APG
1.4 RPG
.5 SPG
1.0 TOPG
.518 FG%
.409 3P%
.808 FT%
PER: 18.59

Pretty impressive considering he only played 12.5 MPG in 56 games. Worth noting, as I briefly mentioned above, he hasn't played a single game this season, and isn't expected to start basketball activities for at least another month. He broke his fifth metatarsal in the first week of August and has been out since. That is the exact same injury Andray Blatche suffered this summer. I'm no doctor, and have no idea how different the severity of their injuries were, but for reference, Blatche suffered his injury the last week of June. So basically 5-6 weeks earlier. Blatche was playing basketball the first week of October. Blatche was sidelined for 3.5 months or so. Beaubois has already missed 5 months, and will miss at least 1 more. The Mavs might just be being careful with him because they don't NEED him yet like we NEED Blatche, but it's just worth noting.

Now, back to the comparisons. Blatche's on paper stats this year:

24 years old
6'11"
260 lbs

In 35.2 minutes per game he's averaging:
17.3 PPG
7.8 RPG
1.7 APG
1.3 SPG
.438 FG%
.792 FT%

Here's McGee's surface stats:

22 years old
7'0"
252 lbs

In 27.7 minutes per game this season he's averaging:
9.6 PPG
8.2 RPG
2.46 BPG
.558 FG%
.640 FT%

They're all very different players who play different positions, so there's no real point in analyzing how impressive their stats are, so I'm sorry I just posted all those numbers, but there they are.

The point is, they're all young and talented, already producing to a certain extent, and potentially doing more (or much more) in the future. So I think Blatche and McGee are fair substitutes for Beaubois in that deal. It all depends on what the Nuggets think obviously, but in theory, we could have waited and made a Melo for Butler, Stevenson, picks, and Blatche/McGee deal.

It's fine if you disagree, and think that the Nuggets wouldn't have accepted our offer. I'm not even convinced myself that they'll accept it (or that they'll even accept the Mavs offer). But let's say they would do this deal.

Would you rather have seen the Wizards wait around and luck out with this deal or make the original trade and have things are the way they are now?

I liked the trade at the time and I still do. We needed change. Even if this deal were possible, it would be extremely unfair to expect Grunfeld to foresee this a year ago, and it certainly wouldn't be worth waiting around for a year in hopes of pulling it off when it's far far far from a guarantee. But it's pretty clear to me that the Wizards (IN THEORY - and then some!) would have been better if they waited.

Wall/Hinrich
Young/Hinrich
Melo/Thornton
Blatche/Booker/Yi
Haywood/Armstrong

Looks good to me I can only dream...

[Inliten1]

Blatche needs to be traded! He just doesn't care about working hard and playing the right way. The second half of last year was him playing because he was scared. He didn't want to be traded to another team because he knows that no other team or GM has a vested interest in seeing him stay on a roster. On the Wizards, he can be lazy and soft and he'll still get playing time because Ernie is still here.

If a first round pick can be had, he needs to go.

[LyricalRico]

Blatche needs to be traded!

Couldn't agree more. I can't stand when he's in the game. He single-handedly kills our momentum. I don't even care what we get in return because it's not like he's helping us win anyway. Get him outta here!

[LyricalRico]

Blatche for Turiaf+Randolph

Blatche for Maxiell+Wilcox+pick

Blatche+filler for Diaw+pick

Blatche for Barbosa+pick (maybe also Alabi)

Blatche for Landry

Blatche for Thompson+Greene (or Casspi)

I will take ANY of those deals TODAY to get this bum off the team.

[AceDegenerate]

I'm in for Blatche for Thompson+Greene.. the rest of those deals kinda suck.

[Inliten1]

We don't need any more mediocre forwards. Any deal involving a team likely to be in the lottery is optimal. Their pick and any player would be just fine..

[nate33]

If we still had Butler and Stevenson, we obviously have most of the makings of that trade. We aren't going to give up our draft pick because our record is so bad that the pick is much more valuable than Dallas', but maybe we throw in a second round or something of equal value. The only thing missing is Rodrigue Beaubois, the young talent. Butler and Stevenson are the filler - the expiring contracts.

So the next question is, do the Wizards have a young talented prospect of equal or similar value to Beaubois? I suppose this is up for debate, but in a general sense, I say yes. Wall would obviously qualify, but the Wizards aren't trading Wall here. The other guys who merit consideration: Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee. I'm not sure how similar their salaries are to Beaubois' or if the proposed deal works out perfectly under the CBA, but let's pretend Blatche or McGee could be substituted for Beaubois' contract in this trade.

Dallas is only trading for a 3-month rental of Anthony. That's why his price is so low. So, yes, if the Wizards still had Butler and Stevenson, and they threw Nick Young into the package in place of Beaubois, they could probably acquire Melo. But why? Melo would leave in 3 months.