Leafs aquire Vesa Toskala & Mark Bell

[Crowned]

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Even if the Leafs make the playoffs...who cares?! They aren't going anywhere! All you morons make me sick to my stomach. Don't you understand the point of playing is not to make the playoffs. It's to win the Stanley Cup. These idiots at MLSE have been feeding you all this garbage for so long you think getting into the playoffs is a successful season.

Well go enjoy you're 8th place finish, if that, and the beating you will take in the playoffs. I'm going to spend my energy on a team that understands what it takes to build a winner. Go Raps!

P.S. I know the Raptors are run by MLSE but at least they put someone competent in charge of the team.

...and a player like Lars Eller would've inched us closer to that cup?

[kelso]

No...Lars Eller AND Aaron Palushaj (at#43)...and some hack in the 4th round of 2009 whos probably playing tyke somewere in Europe right now.

Lars Eller, Aaron Palushaj or Vesa Toskala and Mark Bell. You decide- obviously one direction is for the now.

[juucer]

^^My issue is not getting a goaltender. I actually Toskala, but three picks for a goaltender and a player coming off a bad year when Philly gave up one for Timonen and Hartnell. That's the way I look at it. Why can't we be a forward thinking team that makes moves like that, this seems like another retread move to keep us just competitive enough.

How was that a good move for Philly?

Let me inform you that they didn't trade the 1st round pick for Timonen and Hartnell - they traded the pick for "exclusive bargaining rights" of Timonen and Hartnell. Then, they had to ridiculously overpay both of them because otherwise the two players would've become UFA's on July 1st and they gave up their first round pick for nothing.

They could have kept the pick and still signed Timonen and Hartnell for the same contracts, cause no other GM in their right mind would have paid that for these two. Horrible deal.

[Griff83]

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How was that a good move for Philly?

Let me inform you that they didn't trade the 1st round pick for Timonen and Hartnell - they traded the pick for "exclusive bargaining rights" of Timonen and Hartnell. Then, they had to ridiculously overpay both of them because otherwise the two players would've become UFA's on July 1st and they gave up their first round pick for nothing.

They could have kept the pick and still signed Timonen and Hartnell for the same contracts, cause no other GM in their right mind would have paid that for these two. Horrible deal.

With the Cap going up this season, I dont see how you can say no other GM would have offered Timonen a similar deal. There are always GM's out there desperate for offensive defencemen who can quarterback a powerplay and this was evident when the St. Louis Blues offered even more then we did for Pavel Kubina.

Timonen would have gotten a few teams willing to give him the contract that Philly did.

[kelso]

Not a chance Timonen or Hartnell would have gotten that money elsewhere, unless they sat around unsigned and maybe, just maybe, someone would have to save face and sign them. Usually that would have been the incumbent team but in this case, with Nashville shedding salary, not a chance.

[Griff83]

Not a chance Timonen or Hartnell would have gotten that money elsewhere, unless they sat around unsigned and maybe, just maybe, someone would have to save face and sign them. Usually that would have been the incumbent team but in this case, with Nashville shedding salary, not a chance.

How the hell can you say that?

The cap is going up for one.

Pavel Kubina coming off a season of 5 goals, 33 assists and a -12 was offered 5.7 million a season by the Blues last offseason. This past season Timonen racked up 13 goals, 42 assists and was a +20. Timonen is/was a far more coveted defencemen coming into free agency then Kubina and with the cap rising, its pretty unfounded that you say that no one else would give up a contract at 6 million/season.

This is not saying he "isnt" overpaid, but there would have been other GM's in need of a #1 defencemen who would have coughed up the 6 million per this upcoming season especially seeing the Cap is no longer what is what last season.

[juucer]

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With the Cap going up this season, I dont see how you can say no other GM would have offered Timonen a similar deal. There are always GM's out there desperate for offensive defencemen who can quarterback a powerplay and this was evident when the St. Louis Blues offered even more then we did for Pavel Kubina.

Timonen would have gotten a few teams willing to give him the contract that Philly did.

If that's the case, then why did he sign it? The ball was in his court... he could've waited till July 1st then took a contract from the highest bidder. Instead, Philly gave away their first rounder then threw Timonen a contract that he couldn't refuse and he signed it because he knew nobody else would give that kind of coin to him. Timonen's deal makes McCabe's contract look like a bargain.

And the money (and term) they gave Hartnell is even worse! They're going to regret it.

[Griff83]

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If that's the case, then why did he sign it? The ball was in his court... he could've waited till July 1st then took a contract from the highest bidder. Instead, Philly gave away their first rounder then threw Timonen a contract that he couldn't refuse and he signed it because he knew nobody else would give that kind of coin to him. Timonen's deal makes McCabe's contract look like a bargain.

And the money (and term) they gave Hartnell is even worse! They're going to regret it.

Maybe he liked the idea of playing for the Flyers, where he would undoubtly be the #1 defencemen on the team?I never said any team would offer "MORE" then what Philly did, I said there would be other teams that would give him money in the 6 million per range and Edmonton would have been one of them for sure.

How does his contract make McCabes look like a bargain? The Cap is going up next season meaning that teams will have more money to spend and players salary averages will go up. McCabes contract was signed under what will be the old cap number meaning JFJ lucked out on that, because there's no way he would have got him at the same price if he hit the open market this summer.

[Griff83]

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If that's the case, then why did he sign it? The ball was in his court... he could've waited till July 1st then took a contract from the highest bidder. Instead, Philly gave away their first rounder then threw Timonen a contract that he couldn't refuse and he signed it because he knew nobody else would give that kind of coin to him. Timonen's deal makes McCabe's contract look like a bargain.
And the money (and term) they gave Hartnell is even worse! They're going to regret it.

Plus, Timonen is a better defencemen then McCabe so he deserves to get paid more.

[kelso]

C'mon...now you're getting silly. McCabe had 2 more points in 11 less games in arguably his worst year in the last 3. Oh, and McCabe played on a worse team with an inferior goaltender.

[Griff83]

C'mon...now you're getting silly. McCabe had 2 more points in 11 less games in arguably his worst year in the last 3. Oh, and McCabe played on a worse team with an inferior goaltender.

11 less games?

where did you get that info?

[kelso]

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11 less games?

where did you get that info?

Did say 11 less games- I meant 1 more game... ...69 Gp was Vishnevsky....

[Griff83]

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Did say 11 less games- I meant 1 more game... ...69 Gp was Vishnevsky....

you need to slow down.

You once attacked me saying there was no way Brian Burke would trade Lupol for Kubina. That funny part is when you said this, Joffrey Lupol was no longer a Duck and he was playing for the Oilers.

[kelso]

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you need to slow down.

You once attacked me saying there was no way Brian Burke would trade Lupol for Kubina. That funny part is when you said this, Joffrey Lupol was no longer a Duck and he was playing for the Oilers.

Yah, but was it for Kubina?

[Contract Season]

FWIW, I think Timmonen is a faaaaaar better player than McCabe.
The game is played at both ends of the ice. McCabe is a marginally better offensive player, while Timmonen is about twice as good defensively as the human liability/Todd Gill Jr.

McCabe is among the worst defensive players in the entire NHL.
With no exaggeration, I'd rather have Wade Belak on the ice late in a game.

[kelso]

The point (I think) isn't which one of these guys is better- its which contract is easier to swallow and makes more sense. Timonen is right now the 2nd highest paid player in the NHL when you look at his contract being front loaded and cap hit.

Is he worth that kind of money? Absolutely not. Philly overpaid big time. To that point, so did the Leafs for McCabe, but had McCabe been a UFA this summer his contraact may have been worse then it already is.

[juucer]

The point (I think) isn't which one of these guys is better- its which contract is easier to swallow and makes more sense. Timonen is right now the 2nd highest paid player in the NHL when you look at his contract being front loaded and cap hit.

Is he worth that kind of money? Absolutely not. Philly overpaid big time. To that point, so did the Leafs for McCabe, but had McCabe been a UFA this summer his contraact may have been worse then it already is.

Exactly. The way things are looking, over the next season or two we're going to look at McCabe's deal as a bargain. McCabe's contract is very front heavy but in a few years he'll only be making $4.15/yr. And the Habs just signed Andrei Markov (who?) to a deal that is the same cap hit as McCabe's.

Now call me a homer, but I'd choose McCabe on my team 10 times out of 10 over Markov. Timonen's deal is through the roof, and you can expect Souray and next year's crop of blue-chip UFA defencemen to receive contracts much more lucrative than McCabe's.

[Contract Season]

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Exactly. The way things are looking, over the next season or two we're going to look at McCabe's deal as a bargain. McCabe's contract is very front heavy but in a few years he'll only be making $4.15/yr. And the Habs just signed Andrei Markov (who?) to a deal that is the same cap hit as McCabe's.

Now call me a homer, but I'd choose McCabe on my team 10 times out of 10 over Markov. Timonen's deal is through the roof, and you can expect Souray and next year's crop of blue-chip UFA defencemen to receive contracts much more lucrative than McCabe's.

OK, I'll call you a homer. I'm a Leaf fan, but there is no way McCabe is a better player than Markov.
Again McCabe gets the edge offensively, but because he is such a liability at the other end of the ice and plays so much, I think you can't go anywhere with him.

[mr.garbage]

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OK, I'll call you a homer. I'm a Leaf fan, but there is no way McCabe is a better player than Markov.
Again McCabe gets the edge offensively, but because he is such a liability at the other end of the ice and plays so much, I think you can't go anywhere with him.

Andrei Markov isnt a great offensive player but he does have offense in him. Hes also alot better defender IMO then bryan mccabe. Mccabe makes those stupid errors often which turn into turnovers that lead to a potential goal.

Markov>>Mccabe.

[youreachiteach]

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Andrei Markov isnt a great offensive player but he does have offense in him. Hes also alot better defender IMO then bryan mccabe. Mccabe makes those stupid errors often which turn into turnovers that lead to a potential goal.

Markov>>Mccabe.

McCabe does make the odd bone headed play--but so do some of the League's other top defencemen. McCabe had to work with half the team's other 5 pairings for more than 30 minutes a night. He's a good defenceman, but that'll expose more than a few back there.

I agree he's no pronger or niedermeyer--but he's not paid as much as those guys and produces more offence than most. He's perhaps a little overpaid by today's standards...but teams with great scoring from defence in this era are pretty paramount.

Would I move him for the right price...like say, an elite forward? Sure...but let up on McCabe. Last year was his worst in many years. I see a comeback this season--especially when there are actual forwards to pass the puck to who can shoot too.