Dray & McGee Get Into A Fight?

[keynote]

If McGee wanted to win, then he wouldn't be as preoccupied with attempting silly foul-line dunks during blowouts.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Cousins went fourth in the draft and is 20 years old and you wouldn't touch him? Did any who say ghat see Artest save the Lakers championship? Years ago about the only guy on this board who didn't blame Artest for the brawl besides myself that I remember was Kevin. Ben Wallace set that off. His team got killed. He challenged Artest to a fight. He threw a towel. But folks called Artest the maniac after the fan threw the beer.

If Cousins was going to be anything close to Artest in effectiveness defensively, I'd say we go for it.

The comparison was that both players are volatile.

The advantage Cousins would have at PF next to McGee is he'd play alongside the best weakside shotblocker in the league.

Comparing a flawed rookie to a seasoned, defensive player of the year is not reasonable. Points in the paint will become the norm with this kid. He is more Curry/Marc Gasol. That is not a bad combo.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

McGee is just the opposite. He has a great motor but he has a mind-numbingly bad basketball IQ. He doesn't care one bit whether we win or lose, as long as he looks good in the process. I get the feeling McGee will always fold when facing adversity. He'll never deliver the hard foul in a playoff game, or respond well when the Kurt Thomases of the league rough him up a bit.

How did you come to the conclusion that McGee doesn't care about winning? Sure he's not the brightest of basketball players and doesn't understand team defense very well, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to win.

How can a player take less shots, rebound significantly more, pass more, foul less and at the same time have a mind-numbingly low basketball IQ? How can you say a player who goes all out and plays with passion at both ends doesn't care if the team wins or loses?

And at the same time you say Flip is a good coach?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If McGee wanted to win, then he wouldn't be as preoccupied with attempting silly foul-line dunks during blowouts.

Remember saying this when McGee is playing well for another team.

[keynote]

How can a player take less shots, rebound significantly more, pass more, foul less and at the same time have a mind-numbingly low basketball IQ? How can you say a player who goes all out and plays with passion at both ends doesn't care if the team wins or loses?

I think McGee has improved in all of those areas, but I personally don't think he truly gets *why*. So far, McGee has shown the ability to follow specific instructions (e.g., focus on rebounding more, otherwise you won't get playing time), but he still struggles with schemes, concepts, and his overall feel for the game. His own quotes back this up (e.g., he doesn't understand the distinction between "style and substance," etc.).

I don't trust his instincts. And, not do defend Flip's record as a coach per se, but I'm not sure that we can expect a coach to "coach up" every player to the point that they are a BBall IQ savant. McGee's taken baby steps, but he's got a *long* way to go, savvy-wise.

[keynote]

If McGee wanted to win, then he wouldn't be as preoccupied with attempting silly foul-line dunks during blowouts.

Remember saying this when McGee is playing well for another team.

Define "well."
I think we've already seen McGee play effectively - in spurts. But we've yet to see McGee play smart. Do you honestly think that he would otherwise become a "smart" player with time, but for Flip's hamfisted coaching style? That all he needs is a competent communicator willing to give him minutes + confidence? I'm not so sure he doesn't have that now.

[Induveca]

I think McGee can be a real force with a few things around him.........a brute PF next to him gobbling up rebounds and pushing around opposing players, and a dedication to bulking up his physique. The guy is just too thin/frail to battle in the paint. We need to get him a serious strength coach, and that being said he needs to be majorly dedicated to bulking up.

I really like how the Magic have handled Howard. He had a McGee-esque frame coming into the league.



With that frame he wasn't pushing anyone around in the NBA. McGee is just too damn skinny to do much other than block shots.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If McGee wanted to win, then he wouldn't be as preoccupied with attempting silly foul-line dunks during blowouts.

Remember saying this when McGee is playing well for another team.

Define "well."
I think we've already seen McGee play effectively - in spurts. But we've yet to see McGee play smart. Do you honestly think that he would otherwise become a "smart" player with time, but for Flip's hamfisted coaching style? That all he needs is a competent communicator willing to give him minutes + confidence? I'm not so sure he doesn't have that now.

McGee is 22 years old. He already is a top shotblocker, rebounder, and dunker in the NBA. His game fell off some when Wall went out injured.

I would go as far as giving him time to play for another coach. I would plan on Wall, Young, and McGee being players I planned to use in the future.

I think he improved dramatically and is smart enough for 22 years old. Nick has blown up at 25. In three years Javale can be 10-15 pounds of solid muscle heavier. He will be far more confident. He can be a much better shooter.

Why such patience with a coach and such lack of patience with a young, improving player?

[keynote]

Define "well."
I think we've already seen McGee play effectively - in spurts. But we've yet to see McGee play smart. Do you honestly think that he would otherwise become a "smart" player with time, but for Flip's hamfisted coaching style? That all he needs is a competent communicator willing to give him minutes + confidence? I'm not so sure he doesn't have that now.

McGee is 22 years old. He already is a top shotblocker, rebounder, and dunker in the NBA. His game fell off some when Wall went out injured.

I would go as far as giving him time to play for another coach. I would plan on Wall, Young, and McGee being players I planned to use in the future.

I think he improved dramatically and is smart enough for 22 years old. Nick has blown up at 25. In three years Javale can be 10-15 pounds of solid muscle heavier. He will be far more confident. He can be a much better shooter.

Why such patience with a coach and such lack of patience with a young, improving player?

First of all, I reject this notion that McGee's lack of bball IQ is solely based on his youth. Other youngsters have shown a better feel for the game than McGee at the same age/the same experience level.

Now, I'm not sure why you think I have a lot of patience for Flip, either. But as fans, I think we assume that all players are equally savvy, equally dedicated and equally coachable. And as such, if we could land the next coaching genius, then we'd end up with a squad of supermen. EG has certainly drafted with this strategy in mind.

But my enthusiasm for McGee is tempered by his lack of court feel - relative to his peers. Lazy, unmotivated Blatche was further along at the same age (EDIT: in terms of his feel for the game, not in terms of effectiveness). Wall loves the spotlight just as much as McGee does, but he appears to be further along, savvy-wise. Bynum is a year older, but is a much more polished post player.

Again, McGee is an effective C right now - based solely on athleticism and a developing ability to follow simple instructions. But I doubt that he'll ever fulfill his potential because of his lack of court feel. Even now, I don't think he understands where his athletic advantages really are. If he did, he'd be studying footage of Jabbar and every other super-tall, finesse-oriented post-scorer who played in the league (e.g., Smits, Yao), instead of stubbornly trying to take guys off the dribble for swooping finger rolls with that surprisingly slow first step of his.

Until JaVale stops giving quotes like this:

"I feel like I’m still going to leave my feet sometimes because that’s what has people scared to come to the hole half the time. So if I stop doing that then there’d be more scoring. I’d rather just be one foul and I leave my feet all the time and there’s five misses than everybody score and just shoot it and not be afraid of me."

And this:

"Truthfully, I don't understand what exactly what substance he wants. I'm trying to rebound so if that's the substance he wants then I'm going to try my best to do that the most but I don't understand, so I'm just trying to go for everything, offensively and defensively, even if it's not even my rebound. I've decided I just don't care. I'm just going to try to get as many rebounds as possible."

then I'm going to temper my expectations of him realizing his potential.

Trade him? Only for strong value. But he's not untouchable. And I've seen nothing that makes me think that he'd automatically become a student of the game under another NBA coach.

[keynote]

Blatche/Blatche's agent has offered a scripted apology:

"I'm very sorry for the incident," Blatche wrote in a text message. "I had no intention of this ever happening. I apologize for my behavior, to my family, the whole Wizards organization, my fans, my teammates and coaches."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... sorry.html

Even though it's simple damage control 101, I'm glad to see Dray take the additional step of apologizing publicly. He's the older player; it makes sense for him to take the lead on this. I don't really need to see a separate, parallel note from JaVale at this point, since he's the younger player and has fewer, er, "priors."

(Although, I do wonder why players would rely on text messaging to communicate their official statements. This message turned out fine, but wouldn't you rather sit in front of a laptop, wordsmith it to get the language right and fire off an email? These beat reporters will get the email on their smartphone as fast as they would a text. But I digress.)

[keynote]

Actually, I see that McGee released a more casual apology via Twitter:

[quote}I wanna apologize to the fans and the wizards organization for the immature acts that I was involved in.[/quote]

In any event, they've apologized, and they've been punished. Let's see if (a) they learn from it, and (b) their PT is adversely affected going forward.

[BadWolf]

Blatche/Blatche's agent has offered a scripted apology:

"I'm very sorry for the incident," Blatche wrote in a text message. "I had no intention of this ever happening. I apologize for my behavior, to my family, the whole Wizards organization, my fans, my teammates and coaches."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizard ... sorry.html

Even though it's simple damage control 101, I'm glad to see Dray take the additional step of apologizing publicly. He's the older player; it makes sense for him to take the lead on this. I don't really need to see a separate, parallel note from JaVale at this point, since he's the younger player and has fewer, er, "priors."

(Although, I do wonder why players would rely on text messaging to communicate their official statements. This message turned out fine, but wouldn't you rather sit in front of a laptop, wordsmith it to get the language right and fire off an email? These beat reporters will get the email on their smartphone as fast as they would a text. But I digress.)

bigdaddywookie JaVale McGee
I wanna apologize to the fans and the wizards organization for the immature acts that I was involved in.

to late

[Black Eyed Sooz]

Until JaVale stops giving quotes like this:

"I feel like I’m still going to leave my feet sometimes because that’s what has people scared to come to the hole half the time. So if I stop doing that then there’d be more scoring. I’d rather just be one foul and I leave my feet all the time and there’s five misses than everybody score and just shoot it and not be afraid of me."

And this:

"Truthfully, I don't understand what exactly what substance he wants. I'm trying to rebound so if that's the substance he wants then I'm going to try my best to do that the most but I don't understand, so I'm just trying to go for everything, offensively and defensively, even if it's not even my rebound. I've decided I just don't care. I'm just going to try to get as many rebounds as possible."

then I'm going to temper my expectations of him realizing his potential.

This is reminiscent of the kinds of criticism that was leveled at Wilt Chamberlain when he was slammed for being the ultimate style over substance player who piled up statistics at the expense of championships and did things like smacking the ball on rebounds to "scare" his opponents rather than throw outlet passes to start the break, as well as spiking blocked shots out of bounds and giving the opposition the ball back rather than retaining posession like Russell did.

Not to say that JaVale is Wilt, obviously- among other things, Wilt was perhaps the strongest man ever to play the game, while JaVale is possibly the weakest starting center in the NBA.

I still think that a lot of McGee's shortcomings are a result of immaturity that will improve simply by getting older and more experienced. He's a bright kid- you can see that from what he posts on youtube- and he has been able to stay out of trouble until now. But until this year he was in outright rebellion against any suggestions (his mom's or anyone else's) to rebound and be more physical, and now (thanks to K-Love's 31-31 game) is at least motivated to change that, although he still has to put in the work to get there. But he needs to have a bruiser playing next to him, and I think management is realizing that Blatche is not going to be that guy. I also agree that I would move McGee for the right deal- for example if you could package him for DeMarcus Cousins (and I would be willing to trade JaVale and our 2011 1st round pick, but I still doubt the Kings would bite).

But overall I like what I've seen from him especially that 5 or 6 game stretch where he was getting double doubles every night. I think he will start to do that on a consistent basis next year and going forward.

[sfam]

I'm not sure who is more salvageable, the guy with the great motor but who doesn't care about winning; or the guy with the bad motor and delusions of grandeur, but with a good basketball instincts and at least some commitment to the game.

Maybe both will turn out well, maybe neither will, or perhaps one will. This is the problem - nobody knows. Given the risk that exists, its not a bad idea to trade them for a sure thing that you're comfortable with integrating. The problem with that is most people will only trade similar headaches or players with significantly lower upside. Given where we are, we can afford to bet on upside. Until we're looking like a .500 team, I say we keep them both to see if either of them gets it.

[nate33]

I'm not sure who is more salvageable, the guy with the great motor but who doesn't care about winning; or the guy with the bad motor and delusions of grandeur, but with a good basketball instincts and at least some commitment to the game.

Maybe both will turn out well, maybe neither will, or perhaps one will. This is the problem - nobody knows. Given the risk that exists, its not a bad idea to trade them for a sure thing that you're comfortable with integrating. The problem with that is most people will only trade similar headaches or players with significantly lower upside. Given where we are, we can afford to bet on upside. Until we're looking like a .500 team, I say we keep them both to see if either of them gets it.

I tend to agree. Certainly, if we trade Blatche right now, we'd be selling low.

We might be able to get decent value for McGee, but the Wizards are in a position where they're better off betting on a high-risk high reward player like McGee rather than trading him for a low-risk, low-ceiling guy.

I'm not calling for either guy to be traded right now. I'm just trying to decide which guy I would trade if the ultimate conclusion was that one of them had to go.