Petrie : Westphal's Job is Safe

[RekeHavoc]

I'm more or less with KIE. I'm all for riding this ship out this year and next year as bill murray as our coach. Although I can understand how it seems like a good idea to bring in someone else at the current stage, but I think long term its better to let the coach make his mark and run this team and give him time. If there is no improvements after next year then ok bring in someone else. I said before and I'll say it again a lot of the blame is on Petrie. Petrie brought in vets like Landry and Dalembert so whats PW suppose to do, not use them. Then when he does he is criticized for not giving an immature 19/20 year old 35 minutes a game. PW has made some bad decisions but he was put in a bad situation too. And so what if we have more talent than power point and theus, its about messing the team more so than the overall talent. I would of thought PW would of figured things out a little better at this point but I;m still willing to give him more time and Petrie needs to make some changes immediately with this roster and the Maloofs need to stay outta the way.

The other 9 ton elephant in the room is that a coaching change now would be the 5th coach in 5 years...and when a permanent coach gets hired next summer, they would be the 6th. That kind of revolving door does nothing but send a message in 500 ft tall letters that the team management has no trust in their coaches, are unwilling to back the coaches and tells the players that they can do whatever and be immune to consequences. With that kind of message you would be lucky to get ANY coach to want to consider the job. And the ones who do will be the worst coaches in the league...and they're going to demand a butt load of money to take the job. For good or bad, it's time for the Maloofs to put their money on one coach and stick with them for more than a season and a quarter.

Nah that time is this offseason or if we can get an interim coach who the players dont want to kill. Westphal is a reallly bad coach. His decisions or lack there of have cost us atleast 5 games this year. I used to be a supporter of his but he is really doing a poor job. If someone like Larry Brown would have interest in coaching this team, we need to get em.

[ICMTM]

I think our chemistry is even worse than it was with Muss or Theus...I don't remember things being this bad with either of them...and things got REALLY bad at one point with Theus before he was fired.

I don't find player chemistry to be the issue as it was in years past. I do feel players aren't buying into their assignments nor are their roles defined. I remember seeing Martin yelling at Beno. Salmons ignoring everyone. Ron Ron just not getting it, or not caring to get it. I see a young team that has no clue on what they are doing. They like each other. They just don't have a clue.

There is a disconnect between player and coach. The players don't seem to be at each other. I'd like to see a change made, but I'm tired of getting a new coach every year. I also am tired of certain players not knowing what they are. I'm tired of not knowing who the Kings are.

[SacKingZZZ]

Oh it's bad, very bad. Theus and Musselman got canned because they were under performing with teams expected to at least make some noise. This is just a cluster F because nobody even expected this team to win. Problem's there, quite obvious to just about anyone within eye or earshot, but, "Here We Decline" as bdgking said. hahahaha. Hey, but Westphals a "nice guy". That's just how business works and you know where nice guys finish. It all makes sense if you think about it.

I'm not even pissed at Westphal anymore, this is in indeed in the hands of Petrie and the Maloofs. Either get something your coach can work with, or pick the right coach that will help develop these young guys in something other than ballhog 101 and musical chairs.

I agree with everything you said 100% the only exception is in reguards to PETRIE however I dont know nor does anyone know this for sure but PETRIE'S hands very easily might be tide because though it's very possible he wants PW fired he might not be allowed to do so if the MALOOFS tell him they wont pay for another coach when he has another year remaining under contract.

I put blame on PW & THE MALOOFS however if I knew for a fact that PETRIE is deciding to keep PW & THE MALOOFS were willing to get another coach know etc. I would be blamming PW & PETRIE !

HERE WE DECLINE is sucking bigtime !

If I know the Maloofs like I think I do, they were ready to send Westphal packing two weeks into the season. Petrie is the one that keeps them in check and with all the negativity of their bumbling in business matters the last few seasons and the looming arena issue they're going to stay as far out of the line of fire as possible.

Anyone hear Joe Maloof screaming for them to "GET THE BALL DOWN LOW!!!" in the last game? hahahaha.

[SacKingZZZ]

I don't find player chemistry to be the issue as it was in years past. I do feel players aren't buying into their assignments nor are their roles defined. I remember seeing Martin yelling at Beno. Salmons ignoring everyone. Ron Ron just not getting it, or not caring to get it. I see a young team that has no clue on what they are doing. They like each other. They just don't have a clue.

There is a disconnect between player and coach. The players don't seem to be at each other. I'd like to see a change made, but I'm tired of getting a new coach every year. I also am tired of certain players not knowing what they are. I'm tired of not knowing who the Kings are.

It's bound to follow soon however and it's already starting here and there. At least this time, Petrie can actually look at coaches while knowing who he has to build around. Years past it's all be a rebuild on the fly, or waiting for the series of moves to come. They've come. We sucked and got some legit talent through that sucking. Now it's time to find the right personality with the right philosophy of how to use these players. A passing system based around Cousins and Evans makes the most sense because we won't go anywhere significan by their offensive production alone. They have the ability to make players better by creating shots for them, USE IT FOR CRAPS SAKE!

[ICMTM]

I don't find player chemistry to be the issue as it was in years past. I do feel players aren't buying into their assignments nor are their roles defined. I remember seeing Martin yelling at Beno. Salmons ignoring everyone. Ron Ron just not getting it, or not caring to get it. I see a young team that has no clue on what they are doing. They like each other. They just don't have a clue.

There is a disconnect between player and coach. The players don't seem to be at each other. I'd like to see a change made, but I'm tired of getting a new coach every year. I also am tired of certain players not knowing what they are. I'm tired of not knowing who the Kings are.

It's bound to follow soon however and it's already starting here and there. At least this time, Petrie can actually look at coaches while knowing who he has to build around. Years past it's all be a rebuild on the fly, or waiting for the series of moves to come. They've come. We sucked and got some legit talent through that sucking. Now it's time to find the right personality with the right philosophy of how to use these players. A passing system based around Cousins and Evans makes the most sense because we won't go anywhere significan by their offensive production alone. They have the ability to make players better by creating shots for them, USE IT FOR CRAPS SAKE!

My friend was out at a club the other night and half the team was there together. Yes JT/Landry party together. I'm getting a lot of this from him, but they are experiencing what we're noticing:

1. They don't have faith in the coach
2. Tyreke Needs to pass the ball
3. Some players don't want to be here

Everything he talked about we talk about. This team is that transparent.

He're my new take. I don't think there is any getting into these 20-24 year old kids. I don't think Westphal can do it either. If you fire Westphal now these kids are ALWAYS going to pull this crap. If you let Paul keep doing this crap at least the kids will see it is what it is and they need to conform. Either way we're not getting good anytime soon.

[RIPskaterdude]

Did he say what other players were there?

[SacKingZZZ]

My friend was out at a club the other night and half the team was there together. Yes JT/Landry party together. I'm getting a lot of this from him, but they are experiencing what we're noticing:

1. They don't have faith in the coach
2. Tyreke Needs to pass the ball
3. Some players don't want to be here

Everything he talked about we talk about. This team is that transparent.

He're my new take. I don't think there is any getting into these 20-24 year old kids. I don't think Westphal can do it either. If you fire Westphal now these kids are ALWAYS going to pull this crap. If you let Paul keep doing this crap at least the kids will see it is what it is and they need to conform. Either way we're not getting good anytime soon.

This "crap", as you say, is entirely tied into how the team is being run. Use and treat them in the way that Westphal has and you're going to get these types of reactions. What you see now is purely the result of a prolonged souring that was allowed to continue without any attempts other than "platooning" new rotations in and out (everyone see why I've harped on that type of coaching in the past?).

What's the most transparent is that these players are consistently put in a position to fail rather than succeed. For instance, this team was making some nice strides when working the ball through Cousins up top. Even had Beno in the paper talking about how many of their good shots came from that. Great path to follow right? Apparently not. Westphal went right back to quick shot, drive, drive, drive, slop ball.

When things get to this point it's a process, and this is where the process is at right now. Not the lowest point by any stretch, but it's getting the point of no return real soon. It all comes down to having faith that Westphal will at least look at some tape and be capable of realizing what worked as well as give in a little to these little punks like Cousins because if this team goes anywhere now or in the future, it's going to be because that young man along with Tyreke Evans said so.

What's more dangerous than players turning on the coach and tossing blame for their own struggles (in a failing situation mind you) is when they turn the finger to themselves and question their own abilities. Benching Cousins was a very dangerous move IMO. He was finally starting to gain some real confidence (maybe too much obviously ) and this could very well have set back his development by quite a margin. Hopefully not, but confidence while in abundance with a player like Cousins is not easily gained, it is easily lost.

[deNIEd]

The other 9 ton elephant in the room is that a coaching change now would be the 5th coach in 5 years...and when a permanent coach gets hired next summer, they would be the 6th. That kind of revolving door does nothing but send a message in 500 ft tall letters that the team management has no trust in their coaches, are unwilling to back the coaches and tells the players that they can do whatever and be immune to consequences. With that kind of message you would be lucky to get ANY coach to want to consider the job. And the ones who do will be the worst coaches in the league...and they're going to demand a butt load of money to take the job. For good or bad, it's time for the Maloofs to put their money on one coach and stick with them for more than a season and a quarter.

This is exactly what I've been saying and why we can't fire Westphal right now. We need to stick with a coach for at least 2 years (for the first time in like 6 years).


And I find it hysterical that every good move this organization has made was all Petrie's doing, and every bad move was all the Maloof's fault. Petrie obviously knew it was a bad move but he had his hands "tied" and couldn't do anything about it. Give me a break

[dozencousins]

The other 9 ton elephant in the room is that a coaching change now would be the 5th coach in 5 years...and when a permanent coach gets hired next summer, they would be the 6th. That kind of revolving door does nothing but send a message in 500 ft tall letters that the team management has no trust in their coaches, are unwilling to back the coaches and tells the players that they can do whatever and be immune to consequences. With that kind of message you would be lucky to get ANY coach to want to consider the job. And the ones who do will be the worst coaches in the league...and they're going to demand a butt load of money to take the job. For good or bad, it's time for the Maloofs to put their money on one coach and stick with them for more than a season and a quarter.

This is exactly what I've been saying and why we can't fire Westphal right now. We need to stick with a coach for at least 2 years (for the first time in like 6 years).


And I find it hysterical that every good move this organization has made was all Petrie's doing, and every bad move was all the Maloof's fault. Petrie obviously knew it was a bad move but he had his hands "tied" and couldn't do anything about it. Give me a break

Though their is valid merrit to the point were it looks good for the organization to stick with a coach for 2 years or more so future coaches can see the head coaching job as having some stability !

You are obviously blind to the idealism you have in saying Petries hands are not tied . In most cases yes they are the days we had C-WEBB etc. yes the MALOOFS spent $$$$$$ & allowed PETRIE to do so & they even spent a little there after as well however the last 4-5 years It is really easy to see by any KINGS fan who is actually following the team not just with watching the games on t.v. & knowing who's on the roster & with trades & rumors but also watching the financial aspect of things they would know the KINGS have been cutting corners for years .


You are in serious denial . Petrie has done some things wrong true & some not even the MALOOFS fault however if we are talking the bulk of the blame between PETRIE & THE MALOOFS then the MALOOFS have way more fault in the KINGS decline the last several of years as opposed to PETRIE.

[SacKingZZZ]

This is exactly what I've been saying and why we can't fire Westphal right now. We need to stick with a coach for at least 2 years (for the first time in like 6 years).


And I find it hysterical that every good move this organization has made was all Petrie's doing, and every bad move was all the Maloof's fault. Petrie obviously knew it was a bad move but he had his hands "tied" and couldn't do anything about it. Give me a break

You're looking at it purely in terms of mathematics though. This team now has no real connection to the other teams that the coaches were fired from. Everyone except JT, Cisco, and Beno don't know anything about that, all they know is that they don't really like the guy calling the shots now. The only math you should be looking at is that the longer they wait if this situation doesn't start to look up with the two most important pieces this team has possibly had since a guy named Chris Webber, the absolute worse it will get. There is a breaking point and the teams that have historically taken the other road end up regretting it down the line. I've seen enough of Cousins in high school to know they will be regretting it if they don't recognize what's happening here. Just have to hope it does work I guess. Balls in your court Westphal. After hearing his plan moving forward with the rotation as of now, it's strike one in my book. Petrie needs to step in and change the play call if Westphal gets up to strike two.

[deNIEd]

You're looking at it purely in terms of mathematics though. This team now has no real connection to the other teams that the coaches were fired from. Everyone except JT, Cisco, and Beno don't know anything about that, all they know is that they don't really like the guy calling the shots now. The only math you should be looking at is that the longer they wait if this situation doesn't start to look up with the two most important pieces this team has possibly had since a guy named Chris Webber, the absolute worse it will get. There is a breaking point and the teams that have historically taken the other road end up regretting it down the line. I've seen enough of Cousins in high school to know they will be regretting it if they don't recognize what's happening here. Just have to hope it does work I guess. Balls in your court Westphal. After hearing his plan moving forward with the rotation as of now, it's strike one in my book. Petrie needs to step in and change the play call if Westphal gets up to strike two.

Its not about connections to the current players as much as it is about image/perception of Sacramento to the entire league. Like I've said, if we fire Westphal this season, our only choices at coaches will be scrubs, assistants that have zero chance at getting a real coaching job elsewhere, or coaches that no one in the league wants. Sacramento is essentially a worst case scenario for any coach out there, and only someone incredibly desperate would want to take the job.

A coach looking at Sacramento, will see one of the worst teams in the league, that has a history of firing coaches almost immediately (6 in 6 years? or something like that?) One where, the "talent" is still 2-3 years away from reaching potential. One where the second most "talented" player is one that has reported troubles and has a "history" of clashing with his coaches. (Yeah it may not all be true, but from an outsider looking in, chances are you will assume the worst) We have a terrible roster. In a boring ass city. Have owners that aren't that rich and can't afford to buy a team. Perhaps in a few years, coaches would want to coach here. But in February. In March. In September. What coach would possibly want to come to Sacramento?



Only a desperate one.

[deNIEd]

You are obviously blind to the idealism you have in saying Petries hands are not tied . In most cases yes they are the days we had C-WEBB etc. yes the MALOOFS spent $$$$$$ & allowed PETRIE to do so & they even spent a little there after as well however the last 4-5 years It is really easy to see by any KINGS fan who is actually following the team not just with watching the games on t.v. & knowing who's on the roster & with trades & rumors but also watching the financial aspect of things they would know the KINGS have been cutting corners for years .


You are in serious denial . Petrie has done some things wrong true & some not even the MALOOFS fault however if we are talking the bulk of the blame between PETRIE & THE MALOOFS then the MALOOFS have way more fault in the KINGS decline the last several of years as opposed to PETRIE.

I'm in serious denial?

The past 4-5 years, essentially every single move this team has made as been a bad one or an average one at best. Starting from 2005 we've had probably 2-3 good moves. You're telling me, Maloofs were the blame for essentially every single move? Every single signing? Every single coach hiring? Every single draft pick? Every single trade? That's absolutely pathetic and (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Specifically point out evidence to which moves were Petrie's hands tied in...or are you just going off the fact that you believe Petrie is flawless and the Maloofs are (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Sacramento's draft record since 2005 is good at best.
Sacramento's trade record since 2005 can only be considered terrible or nonexistent.
Sacramento's free agent signing record since 2005 is just atrocious.
Sacramento's coaching hires since 2005 is even worse than atrocious.

Every single one of these moves was the Maloof's fault?
All the draft picks, trades, and free agents were all their fault as well?

Give me a break

[SacKingZZZ]

Its not about connections to the current players as much as it is about image/perception of Sacramento to the entire league. Like I've said, if we fire Westphal this season, our only choices at coaches will be scrubs, assistants that have zero chance at getting a real coaching job elsewhere, or coaches that no one in the league wants. Sacramento is essentially a worst case scenario for any coach out there, and only someone incredibly desperate would want to take the job.

A coach looking at Sacramento, will see one of the worst teams in the league, that has a history of firing coaches almost immediately (6 in 6 years? or something like that?) One where, the "talent" is still 2-3 years away from reaching potential. One where the second most "talented" player is one that has reported troubles and has a "history" of clashing with his coaches. (Yeah it may not all be true, but from an outsider looking in, chances are you will assume the worst) We have a terrible roster. In a boring ass city. Have owners that aren't that rich and can't afford to buy a team. Perhaps in a few years, coaches would want to coach here. But in February. In March. In September. What coach would possibly want to come to Sacramento?



Only a desperate one.

A worse picture couldn't be painted than the one that already is. Oddly enough it's a picture that strongly resembles the schematics of Westphals bread and butter plays.

It's about change. Once players stop listening that's the point of no return, at least very rarely is there any return. Even with a "scrub" you're at least venturing in to new territory, we already know what we have here won't work, there's nothing wrong with giving someone else a shot. Heck, you never know, you might even be surprised. Bottom line it's 0% odds versus the potential for something to click.

With two young talents like Evans and Cousins Sacramento should be FAR from worst case scenario for coaches around the league. With two talents like that, Sac should be a destination coaches look at with optimism and a great sense of opportunity. Like I've said before, at least this franchise has a direction now, and two pieces that have the talent to build around.

Unfortunately do to the bad vibes between this coach and the players, and the reluctance of just getting out of the way of the development of players like Jason Thompson, Omri Casspi, and especially Demarcus Cousins, all anyone sees is a crappy team with no future. Shame too. This team has a bright future, it's just buried behind bad strategy and the inability to deal with "problem" players.

All Westphal has to do is focus on the development of the youth. It's not rocket science. The main problem is, from a game standpoint he has no clue how to use them consistently, and from a personality standpoint he has no clue on how to relate to them. DEADLY combination. A large chunk of the blame falls on Geoff Petrie at this point for allowing this to continue. This team can't afford to have a completely wasted season otherwise it will be hard to find a good coach. Really though, moving forward it doesn't necessarily have to be about finding a "good" coach, it's about finding the right coach. Westphal is way overthinking this stuff. Coaches don't make great teams, but they can get them over the hill and on their way. Coaches however can RUIN teams.

[dozencousins]

You are obviously blind to the idealism you have in saying Petries hands are not tied . In most cases yes they are the days we had C-WEBB etc. yes the MALOOFS spent $$$$$$ & allowed PETRIE to do so & they even spent a little there after as well however the last 4-5 years It is really easy to see by any KINGS fan who is actually following the team not just with watching the games on t.v. & knowing who's on the roster & with trades & rumors but also watching the financial aspect of things they would know the KINGS have been cutting corners for years .


You are in serious denial . Petrie has done some things wrong true & some not even the MALOOFS fault however if we are talking the bulk of the blame between PETRIE & THE MALOOFS then the MALOOFS have way more fault in the KINGS decline the last several of years as opposed to PETRIE.

I'm in serious denial?

The past 4-5 years, essentially every single move this team has made as been a bad one or an average one at best. Starting from 2005 we've had probably 2-3 good moves. You're telling me, Maloofs were the blame for essentially every single move? Every single signing? Every single coach hiring? Every single draft pick? Every single trade? That's absolutely pathetic and (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Specifically point out evidence to which moves were Petrie's hands tied in...or are you just going off the fact that you believe Petrie is flawless and the Maloofs are (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Sacramento's draft record since 2005 is good at best.
Sacramento's trade record since 2005 can only be considered terrible or nonexistent.
Sacramento's free agent signing record since 2005 is just atrocious.
Sacramento's coaching hires since 2005 is even worse than atrocious.

Every single one of these moves was the Maloof's fault?
All the draft picks, trades, and free agents were all their fault as well?

Give me a break

YES ! Your in denial overload !

The past 4-5 years Petrie had made alot of bad deals but more so because the MALOOFS have wanted team salaries to go way down if the MALOOFS wont let PETRIE spend then what do you expect ?
Petrie has BEEN DOING great job shedding salary & building through the draft I would say in 1-2 more years if Petrie's plan of building through ther draft & getting young etc. didnt pan out then call for his head & blame him he is doing the smart thing it's a shame you cant see ity maybe thats why you would never be a GM . You haveto be smart & stick to the plan if you go off the plan then whats the point .
You are 100% dead wrong !

[ICMTM]

Chris Webber has nothing to do with this team.

I understand both points and I'm somewhere in the middle, but ultimately I think Westphal bears the brunt of the responsibility for this team's lack of preparedness.