Are we even contenders this year?

[Optms]

Kinda tough for me to get worked up over a few regular season losses after what happened in March/April. While it's embarrassing and annoying to see them get blown out at home, let's not forget how dire it looked at the end of last season.

I understand the arguments about the easy schedule, tougher competition at top, risk of losing HCA, ect. But at the very least I'd like to see what this team looks like with a productive Bynum before making sweeping proclamations.

+1

I think when the team begins to win later on, all this pessimism would be so buried at the back of our thoughts. I think many of us become too infatuated with the moment and what other teams are doing, consequently losing sight of the bigger picture. The season is a marathon, and the playoffs aren't starting tomorrow.

[LA Forever]

Am I a little concerned about our early losses this season? Yes. Am I worried yet? No.

As much as it pisses me off when they lose, I do understand that complacency comes into effect, especially with the Lakers. I'm a little disappointed that they are playing down to the level of competition and it doesn't seem as if they're giving it 100%, and it's not fair to the fans who pay good money to see them play, but what can us fans do? They play the game, not us. All we can do is just sit back and watch. I used to be the type to bitch and whine about every loss, and would take losses hard. I learned that after last season, I should take the anger factor down a notch and just relax and buckle up for the 82-game season.

With that said, the Lakers are very much contenders. Anytime you have Kobe Bryant and Phil Jackson on a team, anchored by Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum, and Lamar Odom and Derek Fisher in the mix, they will be a legitimate contender. They just aren't playing to the full extent of what they're capable of. We all know how good this team is when they're running on full cylinders. Teams will lose close games and teams will get blown out. How they respond to those losses and how they learn from them is what I'm looking for. Like the ABC commentators on Saturday said, winning the wrong way can only mask what the team is doing wrong, but will haunt them later on. I would rather have take these bad losses and have our weaknesses and problems exposed instead of winning ugly but sweeping the bad things under the rug just because they're winning. Championship teams find ways to win and use losses as learning to play even better.

[Anklebreaker702]

No, this game convinced me we aren't winning it this year. If it were me, I'd just pack it in and trade our most valuable assets while the stock on everyone is at a max high.

GTFO.

Fixed These types of posts crack me up not even 40 games into the season. Yes we should have shown way more effort but this is a major over reaction.

I didn't think it would be necessary to add the green font after being so rash about it.

I wanted a more itchy rash!

[Anklebreaker702]

Lakers lost to the cavs last year on xmas by 10-15 points. They need to make this a wake up call. Kobe knows what needs to be done. The coaches know. Just time to kick it into high and get on winning.

This. Of course there are concerns but last I checked it's still December. All Laker championship teams (in the Kobe/Phil era) kind of under achieve. After winning their very 1st title (with Shaq) the regular season records went down every year even to the point Shaq felt like the regular season didn't matter & it back fired.

I see similarities in this team as well. I don't hear them setting goals to keep them focused at times. I know most of us here don't really care about the 72-10 above a title, but sometimes if you make an aim at something it keeps you focused. Not saying that is the exact goal to shoot at but you catch my drift.

[lakersdynasty]

we are also laking drible penetration, cause last year, as much as i hate farmar he would drive inside way more than blake, that is more of a catch and shoot, also shannom improved his outside shot but thats pretty much all that he does now, and of course kobe being slower then what we all espected..
this team is full of shooters, no slashers

start barnes over artest to see if ron wake the **** up would be nice too

[stunnar0b]

yes

[RocketPower23]

I think having both Artest and Fisher on the floor significantly limits our team, if for nothing else than the fact that the two are worthless on a fastbreak or anywhere near the paint. It's almost an automatic turnover.

That being said...the past few games I've been appalled by Barnes' decision making. Noticed it a few games ago, he'll briefly come up with a 50-50 ball and then it's out of his hands before he can even make a pass. He needs to slow down. IDK, something I've noticed, but it hasn't reflected in the TO in his box score.

Blake seems like he just camps out at the 3 and when he's not making he's not contributing. Maybe starting would make him more comfortable to create off the dribble.

Fish theoretically could be a good bench player, just as a spot-up shooter. That's all Fish should do. Maybe Ron can teach Fisher his offense. Sit in your corner. Can't believe we've won two championships with Fish as our PG.

I wonder if just benching both is a good thing...seems like we'd just transfer the same problem to the bench. Maybe split up Artest and Fish?

Very true on the Barnes part. He's a frustrating player in that way. You like to see all those hustle plays, but it seems he rarely comes up with the ball, you get annoyed with him. He's always been like that, so that isn't going to change.

I'm in favor of splitting up the two and IMO that's the best choice. I'd rather see Fish goto the bench of the two, assuming Ron can play the type of defense he's capable of.

Still, I see a lot of overreacting. There is enough reason to be concerned, but nothing to be overtly worried about.

[celtics792244]

LOL at the title of this thread! Didn't what the Celtics did in last years playoffs teach U anything? Yes, that was a terrible effort Christmas day, but we will see U again in June. Terrible effort, not terrible team. Regular season games mean nothing.

[andrewww]

did some research and sure enough of phil jackson's 11 (and counting) championship teams, the 3rd title of every 3peat was by far the hardest, and all of those required winning at least 1 series w/o home court. case in point:

bolded = without home court
italics = required 7 games

1991
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. New York Knicks, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. Philadelphia 76ers, 4–1
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Detroit Pistons, 4–0
Won NBA Finals vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 4–1
1992
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. Miami Heat, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. New York Knicks, 4–3
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, 4–2
Won NBA Finals vs. Portland Trail Blazers, 4–2
1993
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. Atlanta Hawks, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, 4–0
Won Eastern Conference Finals, vs. New York Knicks, 4–2
Won NBA Finals vs. Phoenix Suns, 4–2

1996
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. Miami Heat, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. New York Knicks, 4–1
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Orlando Magic, 4–0
Won NBA Finals vs. Seattle SuperSonics, 4–2
1997
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. Washington Bullets, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. Atlanta Hawks, 4–1
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Miami Heat, 4–1
Won NBA Finals vs. Utah Jazz, 4–2
1998
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. New Jersey, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. Charlotte Hornets, 4–1
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Indiana Pacers, 4–3
Won NBA Finals vs Utah Jazz, 4–2

2000
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Sacramento Kings, 3–2
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. Phoenix Suns, 4–1
Won Western Conference Finals vs. Portland Trail Blazers, 4–3
Won NBA Finals vs. Indiana Pacers, 4–2
2001
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Portland Trail Blazers, 3–0
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. Sacramento Kings, 4–0
Won Western Conference Finals vs. San Antonio Spurs, 4–0
Won NBA Finals vs. Philadelphia 76ers, 4–1
2002
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Portland Trail Blazers, 3–0
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. San Antonio Spurs, 4–1
Won Western Conference Finals vs. Sacramento Kings, 4–3
Won NBA Finals vs. New Jersey Nets, 4–0

2009
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Utah Jazz, 4–1
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. Houston Rockets, 4–3
Won Western Conference Finals vs. Denver Nuggets, 4–2
Won NBA Finals vs. Orlando Magic, 4–1
2010
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Oklahoma City Thunder, 4–2
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. Utah Jazz, 4–0
Won Western Conference Finals vs. Phoenix Suns, 4–2
Won NBA Finals vs. Boston Celtics, 4–3
2011
???

all signs point to this year being the hardest one to win once again.

[H00PDREAMS]

Wow good solid info there... Education is a MUTHA!


Hey, I did like that Artest and Kobe at times were MUCH MORE PHYSICAL with LeBron than usual. If Artest just went out like Rodman grab some rebounds and locked up folks I could live that.

I mean if it ever came down to it I want Artest in Bron's grill straight up ugly. No easy baskets walking down the lane for dunks. Make LeBron rethink every stroll through the paint. Okay I know Artest is still a liability but I just enjoyed the idea that Artest and Kobe realized the same thing I have over the years - That someone needs to sit LeBron on his arse sometimes, rough that punk up!

[lakersdynasty]

i think kobe guards lebron better then artest

[PolakFury]

yes

[Jase]

At this point, San Antonio and Dallas are the clear class of the West. The Lakers are.....just embarrassing right now. It's too early to throw us out of the "contenders" conversation, but we aren't deserving of serious consideration at this point.

[DEEP3CL]

At this point, San Antonio and Dallas are the clear class of the West. The Lakers are.....just embarrassing right now. It's too early to throw us out of the "contenders" conversation, but we aren't deserving of serious consideration at this point.

+1 We need to chill with "we're ok once we get to the playoffs". At this rate we'll be swept out in round 1.

[rhp1990]

just wait till after the allstar break

[Biohazard]

the Lakers are beyond embarassing..All that talent being pissed down the drain every night. I can't imagine how Dr. Buss, Phil, Mitch and Jeanie must feel right now.

[Biohazard]

At this point, San Antonio and Dallas are the clear class of the West. The Lakers are.....just embarrassing right now. It's too early to throw us out of the "contenders" conversation, but we aren't deserving of serious consideration at this point.

+1 We need to chill with "we're ok once we get to the playoffs". At this rate we'll be swept out in round 1.

They've been doing this for years now..I don't remember this being a problem when Shaq was still here. It makes me wonder how seriously the team really takes Kobe as a leader.

[k20]

I can still imagine the lakers limping to the finish line this year. Whether or not they will cross the finish line is another story especially if it is Boston on the other lane.

[The_Trade_Seer]

I'm all for a Bynum+Odom+Artest+Caracter+Ebanks for Melo+Nene+Birdman+Shelden at this point as I think it would shake things up, show the sense of urgency and of course net us a 25 year old superstar that can carry us offensively when Kobe is off.

HOWEVER ... I think the team, AS-IS can nab the #3 seed, knock out their first round opponet 4-1 (4-3 is likely as I think they'll take whoever they play very lightly) and than the Mavs and Spurs in rounds 2-3, 4-2 each ... I am quite confident we'll be able to do that and head into the Finals against Boston with a 12-5 or 12-7 playoff record ... the problem with that is that Boston will probably be 12-4 and therefore have 1-3 less games of wear and tear PLUS homecourt advantage for the Finals ... all that said, I think this team as-is in line to lose a 7 game series to the Celtics and that would suck!

[NYKstateofmind]

did some research and sure enough of phil jackson's 11 (and counting) championship teams, the 3rd title of every 3peat was by far the hardest, and all of those required winning at least 1 series w/o home court. case in point:

bolded = without home court
italics = required 7 games

1991
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. New York Knicks, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. Philadelphia 76ers, 4–1
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Detroit Pistons, 4–0
Won NBA Finals vs. Los Angeles Lakers, 4–1
1992
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. Miami Heat, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. New York Knicks, 4–3
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, 4–2
Won NBA Finals vs. Portland Trail Blazers, 4–2
1993
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. Atlanta Hawks, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. Cleveland Cavaliers, 4–0
Won Eastern Conference Finals, vs. New York Knicks, 4–2
Won NBA Finals vs. Phoenix Suns, 4–2

1996
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. Miami Heat, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. New York Knicks, 4–1
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Orlando Magic, 4–0
Won NBA Finals vs. Seattle SuperSonics, 4–2
1997
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. Washington Bullets, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. Atlanta Hawks, 4–1
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Miami Heat, 4–1
Won NBA Finals vs. Utah Jazz, 4–2
1998
Won Eastern Conference First Round vs. New Jersey, 3–0
Won Eastern Conference Semifinals vs. Charlotte Hornets, 4–1
Won Eastern Conference Finals vs. Indiana Pacers, 4–3
Won NBA Finals vs Utah Jazz, 4–2

2000
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Sacramento Kings, 3–2
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. Phoenix Suns, 4–1
Won Western Conference Finals vs. Portland Trail Blazers, 4–3
Won NBA Finals vs. Indiana Pacers, 4–2
2001
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Portland Trail Blazers, 3–0
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. Sacramento Kings, 4–0
Won Western Conference Finals vs. San Antonio Spurs, 4–0
Won NBA Finals vs. Philadelphia 76ers, 4–1
2002
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Portland Trail Blazers, 3–0
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. San Antonio Spurs, 4–1
Won Western Conference Finals vs. Sacramento Kings, 4–3
Won NBA Finals vs. New Jersey Nets, 4–0

2009
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Utah Jazz, 4–1
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. Houston Rockets, 4–3
Won Western Conference Finals vs. Denver Nuggets, 4–2
Won NBA Finals vs. Orlando Magic, 4–1
2010
Won Western Conference First Round vs. Oklahoma City Thunder, 4–2
Won Western Conference Semifinals vs. Utah Jazz, 4–0
Won Western Conference Finals vs. Phoenix Suns, 4–2
Won NBA Finals vs. Boston Celtics, 4–3
2011
???

all signs point to this year being the hardest one to win once again.

Very good point. THird one is always the hardest. & honestly it's still too early to be jumping ship. its not even past the all star break. if in March & April you see bad loses, then there's some areas of concern.

And check the second Bulls record their 3rd year (second 3-peat) around this time of year. I believe same record. Though last i heard no Phil Jackson championship team lost 3 in a row like that.