McGraw: Bulls SG issues

[KingoftheCastle]

Reinsdorf will not pay the luxury tax.

[boogydown]

Reinsdorf will not pay the luxury tax.

A). There may not be a luxury tax after this season, there maybe a soft/hard cap.
B). He said if the team is competitive, he'd pay the tax.

I'll take his word over your speculation.

[boogydown]

I'd be concerned about Mayo as well as he could turn into Ben Gordon V.2 where someone offers 10 million a year because of the massive hype.

JR Smith financially would be the best route for the Bulls to go.

[KingoftheCastle]

Can someone point me to the quote where Reinsdorf said he would pay the tax, given x amount of circumstances. I'm not doubting, I just never heard it.

[imagge]

Well considering that the Bulls led the league in payroll during the dynasty days, I would say you are completely off base. Cuban just hands out contacts like the Mavericks are his toy. JR treats it like a business since he has a board to answer to.

Let's back it up here. How many years did the Bulls lead in payroll in the 1990's? I just checked two championship years where they weren't the leaders in payroll.

And how much profit did the Bulls make in relation to the other teams in spite of their higher relative payrolls? And how much did their franchise increase in value during such years relative to the other teams?

It was a different salary structure then, contracts were much longer MJ's original contract was 10 yrs long. When he finally became a FA he was paid a total of 63 million in 2 seasons. His salary was a major reason for the lockout and the new CBA as we know it today. There is no evidence that JR will pay for a contending team, PIP's salary was low, Rodman's salary was low, Toni's Salary was on a rookie contract, Grant was on a rookie contract. Everyone else were bit players, BJ, Stacey King, Scott Williams (both rookies). Paxson, Kerr, (bit players). Bill Cartwright, Craig Hodges, Cliff Levingston, Robert Parish, Ron Harper (players at the end of their careers). Jud Buchler, Dave Weingtinton, Randy Brown, Rory Sparrow, Bob Hansen, Trent Tucker, Rodney McCray, Darrell Walker (all Journeymen).

Just the few names above shows 2 things:

1. MJ and PIP were the 2 best basketball players of that era to be able to take that type of supporting cast to 6 ships.

2. JR has never paid players on a championship team besides MJ. Even then he was reluctant to pay 1 player 30 million +, but he knew winning 2 more ships would line his pockets for yrs to come.

[BR0D1E86]

OK, for the people focusing on the writer’s (not the team’s or anyone associated with the team) ‘fiscally responsible’ comment---

Maybe they don’t find it fiscally responsible to commit that much money to a volume scoring guy with a history of attitude problems? And for as much as everyone on this board hates Deng, don’t compare his career numbers to Jackson’s because Deng’s are better. And for the crowd that will then say that Jackson is “fearless” and “steps up in the playoffs” I wouldn’t compare those numbers to Deng’s PO numbers either. It won’t help your argument.

Personally I’d rather just start Ronnie Brewer and see what happens to the market.

[panthermark]

We're going to be stuck with Bogans for another 6 weeks.

At least could we increase minutes to Brewer and Korver?

Maybe Thibs is trying to raise the trade value of Bogans....that is why he is playing so much...

[BR0D1E86]

Even then he was reluctant to pay 1 player 30 million

I know the quote you’re referring to and I know everyone likes to damn Reinsdorf for it, but it’s taken entirely out of context on this board.

[MAQ]

Even then he was reluctant to pay 1 player 30 million

I know the quote you’re referring to and I know everyone likes to damn Reinsdorf for it, but it’s taken entirely out of context on this board.

Well, the quote is pretty straightforward, so I can't agree that it is taken out of context. I mean...he said what he said...he can't back track now. But besides that, he was still 100 percent correct. We're now facing a lockout b/c of those 2 contracts...And b/c of KG's eventual extension...and so on and so forth.

[BR0D1E86]

Well, the quote is pretty straightforward, so I can't agree that it is taken out of context. I mean...he said what he said...he can't back track now. But besides that, he was still 100 percent correct. We're now facing a lockout b/c of those 2 contracts...And b/c of KG's eventual extension...and so on and so forth.

It’s used on this board to prove that Reinsdorf is cheap (as in, “ZOMG, he didn’t even want to pay Jordan!!!”) when in reality he was afraid that it would f- the salary structure of the league.

That’s what I mean by out of context. And you’re right that he was right.

[SpinninHouse]

Acquiring in the SG poses a problem on a couple fronts. 1) With injury histories to Noah and Boozer, it's very difficult to include Taj in a deal. 2) With long term money tied up in Boozer, Noah, and Deng and a full max looming for Rose, we don't have the money to sign a SG to a long term deal.

I think our only chance is using a MLE exception. But if I'm not mistaken, we need to not have any cap space. Don't we have 1 or 2 million left in cap space?

[Chi town]

I agree the one caveat for SJAX is Lux tax once Rose gets extended. If we send out Watson in that trade though that makes it a bit better.

As for Mayo getting big money.... who will pay him? Who will have the cap space? Right now no one will pay him big money. I don't see him getting enough shots to score 20ppg here so I see him getting NO MORE THAN 8M per season. Right now he is not even worth that.

I am starting to think near the deadline we will pull the trigger on one of the 3 mentioned targets. I really don't see getting Lee or Pietrus as an upgrade when Brewer gives the same if Thibs would just let Bogans sit.

Remember we can also sign someone to a MLE type deal in the offseason the one reason I would trade JJ for JR Smith is because we keep his bird rights and it makes him easier to sign or he would be a good player to have in a S&T.

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Well, the quote is pretty straightforward, so I can't agree that it is taken out of context. I mean...he said what he said...he can't back track now. But besides that, he was still 100 percent correct. We're now facing a lockout b/c of those 2 contracts...And b/c of KG's eventual extension...and so on and so forth.

It’s used on this board to prove that Reinsdorf is cheap (as in, “ZOMG, he didn’t even want to pay Jordan!!!”) when in reality he was afraid that it would f- the salary structure of the league.

That’s what I mean by out of context. And you’re right that he was right.

Agreed.

Hypothetical question:
If you owned a VERY profitable company that was projected to make TONS of money for the next 10 years regardless of you keeping your top 3 employees (MJ, Pip, Rodman) & you were faced with this following decision..........Keep your top 3 employees & pay them insane money or let them go?

[Ax2SG]

Is help coming? Rumors persist that general manager Gar Forman is actively looking for an upgrade at shooting guard, but sources said reports of talks with the Nuggets regarding J.R. Smith weren’t accurate. Players such as Richard Hamilton and Stephen Jackson would appear to have prohibitive long-term deals.
The Bulls have scouted Rockets guard Courtney Lee, who is well-regarded for his defense and toughness. But even if talks became serious, he’s a 37.9 percent career 3-point shooter and might represent only a minor upgrade.

[KingoftheCastle]

Well, the quote is pretty straightforward, so I can't agree that it is taken out of context. I mean...he said what he said...he can't back track now. But besides that, he was still 100 percent correct. We're now facing a lockout b/c of those 2 contracts...And b/c of KG's eventual extension...and so on and so forth.

It’s used on this board to prove that Reinsdorf is cheap (as in, “ZOMG, he didn’t even want to pay Jordan!!!”) when in reality he was afraid that it would f- the salary structure of the league.

That’s what I mean by out of context. And you’re right that he was right.

Agreed.

Hypothetical question:
If you owned a VERY profitable company that was projected to make TONS of money for the next 10 years regardless of you keeping your top 3 employees (MJ, Pip, Rodman) & you were faced with this following decision..........Keep your top 3 employees & pay them insane money or let them go?

I would probably let them go, given I myself am a cheap ass, just like Jerry.

[DuckIII]

It will continue to be hard for us to improve this team, unless we find a way to rid ourselves of Deng's bloated contract.

You continue to miss the point terribly. If we move Deng in order to make room for a contract for players like Jax or Mayo, we still aren't a contender. Its at best a lateral move (and in my opinion a regression move).

What ownership has to do is keep Deng AND add, and pay, a player like Mayo or Jax (or some other shooting guard that might even better than these guys).

If ownership won't do that, then we're limited no matter what unless we can find a way to package Deng with say Taj, Asik, Charlotte pick for a bona fide star player at the 2 or 3.

There are three options:

(a) Keep Deng and take on an additional salary obligation at the 2.

(b) Package Deng and other quality assets for an established star player if one comes available; or

(c) Lock Bogans in the basement, start Brewer, and be patient.

[KingoftheCastle]

(c) Lock Bogans in the basement, start Brewer, and be patient.

My choice

[Payt10]

I would throw a fit if the Bulls traded for Rip Hamilton. The guy I still want is Marcus Thornton. I would be happy with Jr Smith, Afflalo, or Mayo depending on what we gave up for him, and I would be kind of meh about Courtney Lee and Stephen Jackson.

Thornton is the type of player that could start if needed and on this team he should be wouldn't because Bogans is still here so he could come off the bench and score for the 2nd unit and is the type of player that when he gets hot from the outside he will play for long stretches during a game and possibly be in there during crunch time with DRose to keep the offense going. His defense may be a bit suspect but to me, it's more important that we get another scorer/shot creator than a guy that is a slight downgrade offensively but brings it defensively. We already have Brewer who's our defensive stopper at a SG.

JR Smith is basically an upgraded version of Marcus Thornton but comes with alot of baggage. I would hope that Thibodeau would start him if he came here but if Bogans is still here after the trade I have a hard time seeing him being demoted as hilarious as it sounds. If he played it smart, Smith would start and become another play maker next to Rose on the team. He's not a bad passer and can setup some plays for others at times when he's not chucking. That's the biggest thing with him. If Thibodeau could make him become a more heady player and take shots in the flow of the offense, he will be a great pickup. He is one of the guys that at times can carry an offense with his shooting and all around scoring.

OJ Mayo has all the potential. But so far has had a pretty poor start to his career. For being a high lottery pick he hasn't exactly become the superstar that alot of people thought he would become. But no matter. The Bulls could use his stroke from the outside and his athleticism to break down defenders to create his own shot.

Lee is a minor upgrade because he is one of those two way players. He will play tough defense and will also become a bit of a scorer at times. He can shoot the 3. However he will have games where he is totally ineffective which is why he is only considered a minor upgrade to this team but if it's the best we can do I say do it.

Stephen Jackson is a no no to me. The guy is old, not very efficient and has a bad contract. Sure he would be an upgrade over Bogans but so is every other player in the league. The problem I have is the efficiency and the contract. Jackson will get after it defensively which is a plus but he is a volume shooter that has always shot in the low 40's his entire career. This team already has a volume shooter in D Rose and Carlos Boozer so it's important that we get somebody that can get to the line or shoot 3's at a high clip for added efficiency. Jackson isn't this.

Afflalo is a guy that I wouldn't mind at all. He would definitely start here because he is what Thibodeau thinks Bogans is. A spot up shooter that will make it tough for opposing players defensively.

[BULLHITTER]

reinsdorf's assertion that he'll pay for a contender is the big carrot folks seem to want to grasp onto, however, my slams at mgmt are specifically aimed at all the machinations the bulls organization seem to do to prevent that "contender status" from ever truly happening by the real definition of "contender", or in other terms, paying the luxury tax.

looking at it how much more of a contender can they become under their current team construct and salary construct? boozer, deng and noah are getting paid; rose is due for big bucks soon; they've got cheap "talent" (not necessarily by my definition) on short deals that they can turnover in a couple of years when this incantation reaches its peak. WHEN and HOW can they be considered contenders? they won't overpay for the current market of SG's; ok. they surely see the nba landscape as well or better than most; what's out there that they feel is worth waiting for? melo is a guy that a bidding war will surely happen if not traded for; denver apparently doesn't want the bulls package; anybody expect them to win a "bidding war"? are they going to wait on the golden 2016 lottery pick? they're looking at "fiscally responsible" deals which don't exist by most folks standards which mcgraw has pointed out, so my problem with them is that there'll have to be some kind of magical player giveaway (which is reaaalllly far fetched) in order for them to get to that "mystical" contender status.

imo, by the bulls secretive "contending" status definition, they are already contenders; they've got a cheap star, they've signed a FA to major coin (positive PR), they can entertain, fill the seats and make profits. they don't HAVE to do anything else. i'm betting they won't.

[cot2]

Man there are some dense people on this board. Being financially responsible is not about avoiding the luxury tax, it is about being able to build, and maintain the team. If you add a marginal player, like SJax, whose contract extends into the Rose extension year, and the new CBA contains a hard enough cap, it is possible that the Bulls could be outbid for Rose. The cap may, or may not, be that hard, and Rose may stay, even if the Bulls were outbid, but to take even a small chance is the definition of irresponsible.

You can say the CBA would never go that way, and while it may not have a hard cap, it will have a harder cap for sure, but nobody really knows.