How far would you go for Bogut? (Amended for 11Feb.)

[parson]

During a period of severe insomnia, and while on vacation, I had some interesting discussions on the Bucks' board. Bogut is (possibly) available, especially if they decide to rebuild.

I told them I'd trade essentially the entire team, sans Horford, for Bogut. Pairing Bogut with Horford would make us dominant at the 2 interior positions.

The deal they liked the most was Joe and Smoove for Bogut. Even those who didn't want Joe and/or Smoove felt the talent being offered was plenty. Those posters asked for a 3rd team to be included.

Is there anyone here who would NOT agree to trade Joe/Smoove AND take on Drew Gooden and either or John Salmons or Corey Maggette in order to get Bogut?

[reazun]

Its so hard to find a true center, so I might do that trade. Id hate giving up Smoove, but honestly if we get Salmons with Bogut. we MIGHT be a better team in the long run. thats a tough one. I probably would pass because wed be giving up too much offense for a slight upgrade on defense and rebounds, but i wouldnt be mad if it happened. you can probably tell by now that I have no idea if I like the trade or not. So I dont know

[parson]

WOULD we be worse on offense? Bogut and Horford would score down low much more easily than they do now because they would have each other to help out. Besides, if we had inproved interior scoring, our perimeter shooters would have wide open looks.

And it would not be a "slight upgrade" of our defense and rebounding; the improvement would be massive.

[azuresou1]

Didn't someone offer Joe/Crawford for Salmons/Bogut/Gooden? I'd take that deal immediately.

[djjob23]

Didn't someone offer Joe/Crawford for Salmons/Bogut/Gooden? I'd take that deal immediately.

Ditto.

But I'd do the OP's trade as well.

[FCNATL85]

Bogut+ Delfino + MIL 2nd for Smith+ zaza + ATL 1st

[FCNATL85]

Bogut+ Gooden + MIL 2nd for Smith+ Zaza + ATL 1st and ATL turn around and trade Gooden and Bibby to NJ for Harris.

[FCNATL85]

Bogut for Smith and 1st

[fuzzy1]

Is this for real? Bogut, when healthy, is a top 5 center in this league, possibly top 3, and he's still young and getting better. He's one of the best defensively, too, and he can pass. Horford plus Bogut is insanity in the frontcourt. Plus, if we gave up Joe, it would make Horford the man on offense, and he looks like he's ready.

[azuresou1]

No, it's just a fantasy hope thread.

[FCNATL85]

here is a possibility between MIL/ATL and NY:

Bogut, Chandler and Curry's 11.2 expiring to ATL

JJ and Gooden + ATL 2nd to NY

Smoothe, Turiaf (plus fillers e.g. Thomas and Rautins) + ATL 2nd and NY 2nd to MIL

As far as ATL is concerned they would have:

Bibby-Teague-JC1
JC1- JC2- Mo
Chandler-Marvin- Wilkins
Al-Powell-Zaza
Bogut- Zaza-Collins

Then I would even gamble further by moving Bibby and Chandler to the Nets for Harris...Final product:

Harris-Teague-JC1
JC1- JC2- (might want to sign a guy like Flip if still available)
Marvin-Mo-Wilkins
Al-Powell-Zaza
Bogut- Zaza-Collins

We might have to give up a 1st and/or a couple of second but win 11M of cap for next year to play with a FA and or resign JC1

rather than doing the 2nd trade, I would prefer a Marvin+ Bobby for Nash and a future first at least?

[djjob23]

here is a possibility between MIL/ATL and NY:

Bogut, Chandler and Curry's 11.2 expiring to ATL

JJ and Gooden + ATL 2nd to NY

Smoothe, Turiaf (plus fillers e.g. Thomas and Rautins) + ATL 2nd and NY 2nd to MIL

As far as ATL is concerned they would have:

Bibby-Teague-JC1
JC1- JC2- Mo
Chandler-Marvin- Wilkins
Al-Powell-Zaza
Bogut- Zaza-Collins

Then I would even gamble further by moving Bibby and Chandler to the Nets for Harris...Final product:

Harris-Teague-JC1
JC1- JC2- (might want to sign a guy like Flip if still available)
Marvin-Mo-Wilkins
Al-Powell-Zaza
Bogut- Zaza-Collins

We might have to give up a 1st and/or a couple of second but win 11M of cap for next year to play with a FA and or resign JC1

rather than doing the 2nd trade, I would prefer a Marvin+ Bobby for Nash and a future first at least?

Yes to first trade. YES YES YES! I like Chandler, but if he'll be too expensive then trade for Harris. Just the dream of doing this makes me happy. Joe does not need to be in a Hawks uniform anymore... he's overstayed his welcome.

I truly think Joe and Smoove are holding Marvin back. If this trade goes down, look for efficient scoring. There is such an abundant of PG's out there, we can get one for cheap.

[old rem]

Bogut+ Gooden + MIL 2nd for Smith+ Zaza + ATL 1st and ATL turn around and trade Gooden and Bibby to NJ for Harris.

Gooden's contract makes his value quite negative. Bibby's value is minor at best,but he brings no future to NJ so they'd be paying for irrelevance.

Dumping Gooden and getting a first comes sort of close in terms of incentive for Mil to do a Bogut /Smith deal,but then Mil gets to fuss about where to find a good
C when there ain't many.

[parson]

There's a new conversation on the MIL board and the Trades and Transactions board, talking about trading Smoove for Bogut. Would you do this? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1091197
Because it appears that MIL fans would.

The trade is http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=4mng52g

We'd be Bogut/Horford/Marvelous/Joe/Boykins with Zaza/Gooden/Maggette/Salmons/Whomever on the bench. We'd have the best starting 5 in the East and a pretty good bench. The negative (only one) is that we'd go about $6 million over the LT next year but if the ASG can't go over the LT in order to win a championship, then they're useless.

I know folks' first reaction will be to scream about the huge #s.

Give me your SECOND reaction.

[azuresou1]

Not a fan. Boykins is probably the only PG defensively worse than Bibby, we'd have no backup point, and our window for winning is this season and next, after which we're shackled with old hugely overpaid players who'll suck. And our odds of winning wouldn't even be significantly better, we go from maybe a 1% chance of winning it all to a 10% chance of winning. That to me isn't a high enough chance.

[parson]

Not a fan. Boykins is probably the only PG defensively worse than Bibby, we'd have no backup point, and our window for winning is this season and next, after which we're shackled with old hugely overpaid players who'll suck. And our odds of winning wouldn't even be significantly better, we go from maybe a 1% chance of winning it all to a 10% chance of winning. That to me isn't a high enough chance.

Corey Maggette's salary is, this year, $10,031,040, next year, $10,833,523 and, the year after, $11,700,205.
John Salmons? $8,000,000, $8,500,000, $8,080,000, $7,580,000 with a team option of $7,000,000. Notice his goes down each year.
Drew Gooden? $5,765,000, $6,226,200, $6,687,400, $6,687,400 and $6,687,400. Cheap for a good backup who can start in a pinch.

But how can a big 3 of Bogut, Horford and Joe, with a much-improved bench, not be considered strong contenders? As for their ages, Gooden is 29, Maggette and Salmons are 31. You're talking about a young starting 5 (how can our "window for winning" be only 2 years?) with Bogut/Horford/Marvelous/Joe and with a soon-to-be-aging bench. In 4 years, Gooden at 33 and Maggette and Salmons at 35 will still be better than what we now have on our bench, excepting Crawford.

Plus, we could keep Teague (MIL fans wouldn't complain - some even asked for him to be taken off) but then we'd have to pay the LT this year.

[MaceCase]

No wonder Buck fans like that trade, they'd be shifting their entire cap debt for the next decade unto us for the price of Bogut and still get a equivalent talent in return. You'd be a fool to make that deal the same way Hammond was a fool to sign and trade for those guys.

[parson]

"Next decade"? What am I missing? Only Gooden's contract extends to 2014-15. Salmons' deal ends the year before (unless we choose to exercise the team option) and Maggette's ends the year before that.

[parson]

I guess I'm just a fool.

[parson]

... and still get a equivalent talent in return.

Try offering Smoove for Bogut straight up.